FlipBox BY PowerBox??

[One Love 731]

I think this and all the other units are awesome, I just couldn't afford it. I have allot more going on, that is not posted on IC. I spend more on containers and coco then some spend on there grows. Soon though I will be able to buy whatever I need, and I do very much appreciate this thread GT as it has helped me decide which units to look at. I have a need to know how everything in the grow room works. I have set up what for all intensive purposes should be a permanent grow room, although I will be moving several states away at the end of march. I have only been at this for a year, just don't want to get to a safe place and not know my shiz. Thanks for the help all of you. Karma, One Love

 

[green_thumb...]

Cool cool onelove,yeah iv done some research for prolly 2 years now people call me crazy for spending so much of my time in the grow room and on icmag but fuck em they can continue to smoke schwag butt nugget weed I'll keep doin my thang and I'll keep smokin the dank but anyway thanks for contributing your knowledge to this thread all is apreciated and best of karma to you and your grow and your move man,hope its twards the pacific north west if in the states that is

 

[~fvk~]

I think this wiring diagram was posted by someone else in Kungpow's thread but this gives an overall idea of how to wire a flip relay.

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/7541relaywire.jpg

I'm not sure what kind of electrical components enable a digital ballast to run on a relay, but shutting down your ballast for a couple minutes before the flip defeats one of the strongest points of using a relay. Sure, they might not have as of an immediate surge compared to magnetics, but I'm sure it's still noticeable. If you just want to save money on ballasts, I could see the point, but you should always have both a spare ballast and relay on hand.

 

[Hydrosun]

Lets us know if it really works on digital ballasts, read some stuff about it burning out tho im unsure if it was just forum trolls. Tho note it didnt burn out as in flames, the relay controlling it just broke i believe. With digital ballasts you have to turn the ballast off before switching to another light, thats the issue as i know.

Why would that be? Mine go from off to Super Lumen (110%) every day. Shouldn't the current switching to the other hood be fine OR does the lamp need a spike in power to start the bulb and that spike only comes when the ballast goes from off to on? That could be a problem if so.

Peace,

 

[Powerbox]

Powerbox Flipbox

Powerbox Flipbox

Hey everybody - It's Jeff from Powerbox - new here, first post.

Just some info for you from my experience:

The Flipboxes work with all digital ballasts we have tested: Galaxy's, Quantums, Most Lumateks (someone told me they had a problem with the older Lumateks, but that was never confirmed). Also, all magentics we have tested work great, too.

I have one report of a Sun-1 ballast frying the LED's on startup - maybe the ignitor was sending too strong a pulse - I don't know.

One note on digitals: When the flip occurs, many times the 2nd lamp ignites right away. If it doesn't, it usually ignites within 1 to 5 minutes, so be patient for a few...

I'm always interested in reports from users on any issues and we'll do whatever it takes to resolve them.

Basically, the relays everone is using are for the most part the same. The difference between our units and the Horticontrols, for instance, is that the Horti's use one relay per 2 ballasts - the relay is a 2-pole relay - they only break one pole per ballast, so they use one relay for 2 ballasts. We Use one dedicated relay per ballast and we break both poles. So for the money, you are getting half the number of relays with the Horti's. I'm not knocking the Horti's. For those who want larger panels that do multiple ballasts, these are the ones to get. We will not be making a larger panel - only individual units.

I'm glad to post some pictures of the insides - I don't have my camera with me right now, but I'll do it soon.

To the guy who made the product suggestion, I think I remember that. We have had hundreds of requests for a Flipbox over the last year or so over the phone, etc. I think I didn't get back to you with a thanks because the online form doesn't require an email address and I don't think you provided one to reply to. If you did, my apologies -we value your feedback and suggestions.

I don't spend much time on the forums, but I'll try to answer questions if anybody has some.

Later

-Jeff

 

[green_thumb...]

Thanks jeff for visiting and adding info to my thread,I'm still waiting for my flipbox should be here today and I'm soooo glad to hear no problems really with the unit and I can't wait to hook mine up

 

[Powerbox]

Inside Pics

Inside Pics

here's a couple pics from my iPhone -attached - not the best quality - sorry.

One is of the inside of a Flipbox, the other is a closeup of the right type of relay to use for anybody who wants to make their own. It's really not that hard to do, just takes some time and the individual components are more expensive to buy in small quantities.

-JF

 

[LiLWaynE]

Hey everybody - It's Jeff from Powerbox - new here, first post.

Just some info for you from my experience:

The Flipboxes work with all digital ballasts we have tested: Galaxy's, Quantums, Most Lumateks (someone told me they had a problem with the older Lumateks, but that was never confirmed). Also, all magentics we have tested work great, too.

I have one report of a Sun-1 ballast frying the LED's on startup - maybe the ignitor was sending too strong a pulse - I don't know.

One note on digitals: When the flip occurs, many times the 2nd lamp ignites right away. If it doesn't, it usually ignites within 1 to 5 minutes, so be patient for a few...

I'm always interested in reports from users on any issues and we'll do whatever it takes to resolve them.

Basically, the relays everone is using are for the most part the same. The difference between our units and the Horticontrols, for instance, is that the Horti's use one relay per 2 ballasts - the relay is a 2-pole relay - they only break one pole per ballast, so they use one relay for 2 ballasts. We Use one dedicated relay per ballast and we break both poles. So for the money, you are getting half the number of relays with the Horti's. I'm not knocking the Horti's. For those who want larger panels that do multiple ballasts, these are the ones to get. We will not be making a larger panel - only individual units.

I'm glad to post some pictures of the insides - I don't have my camera with me right now, but I'll do it soon.

To the guy who made the product suggestion, I think I remember that. We have had hundreds of requests for a Flipbox over the last year or so over the phone, etc. I think I didn't get back to you with a thanks because the online form doesn't require an email address and I don't think you provided one to reply to. If you did, my apologies -we value your feedback and suggestions.

I don't spend much time on the forums, but I'll try to answer questions if anybody has some.

Later

-Jeff

cool nice to hear from you...

 

[Powerbox]

Breaking Both Poles

Breaking Both Poles

You are absolutely right - breaking both poles is essential for safety.

In terms of building yourself - for the do-it-yourselfers, it really is not that hard. We try to sell a reliable unit at an affordable price, but for those who want to build their own, I am thinking about putting together a kit that will include:

(1) Relay
(2) Lamp Sockets
(1) Lamp Cord
(1) Trigger Cord

The cost of this kit would be like $50. You would have to get your own enclosure and put it together, but it would be the same parts we use.

The enclosures we use are heavy gauge powdercoated steel and they are very expensive to make - more expensive than any other single component in the unit. Plus labor, wiring, etc. - that brings the retail price to around $150. And believe me, we don't make much money on these units, when you take into account we wholesale them to retailers. Overall, we think we give a fair price.

In terms of contact arcing, different relays use different quality metals for coating the contacts on the relays - this ultimatley determines the life expectancy. Before we put anything out, we run through accelerted warranty testing - that is, in a typical setup, you flip twice in a 24 hour period. 5 years = 1,825 days * 2 flips = 3,650 flips. Our units are tested to live through at least that. The relays are rated for 10,000 cycles - we haven't run through that many, so I honestly can't say if they will last that long. If you are flipping every hour in a garden to increase coverage, the units will naturally wear out faster. We warranty for a standard cycle of 2 flips per day.

-JF

 

[One Love 731]

Here is a few pics of what I did, You can find more info on these and other projects in Pontiacs DIY Link-O-Rama @ http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=40637&page=1&pp=15

(Thanks to "The Dopest" for the wiring explanation above, I borrowed it from his thread)


It was simple enough. I used the c shaped connectors and hard wired the system in. I could have added lots of cord ends but didn't, less to go wrong but not fun when tearing down. The cords are meshed together with couplers and a heat shrink wrap. I installed the relays in a metal case I had laying around. When I build another grow room I will build another flip flop. I fill safe leaving the grow unattended with my flip flop, the relays I use are overkill and I know they will not fail.

Basically, the relays everyone is using are for the most part the same. The difference between our units and the Horticontrols, for instance, is that the Horti's use one relay per 2 ballasts - the relay is a 2-pole relay - they only break one pole per ballast, so they use one relay for 2 ballasts.

-Jeff

Thanks for the pics and the info I learned something new, I could build the same 4 ballast flip with 2 relays, It never even crossed my mind. Also this opens up a whole new are in DIY projects for me as it cuts the amount of relays in half. I like the way you are willing to share trade ideas on open forum. Karma, One Love

 

[burnedout]

Gordon..Do these relay's come in larger sizes to handle bigger loads? What do you use when building large light controllers, say 8 or 12 lights?

 

[burnedout]

What about for a light controller, say a 10 light unit? Since 10 lights pulls ~45 amps, you can't hook your 6-2 feeder cable directly to a 30 amp relay can you?

 

[burnedout]

So you would use a 60 amp contactor? A contactor is basically just a spdt relay correct? Would you happen to have a part # for such a contactor?

 

[toohighmf]

I have been running quantum digi 1000's for 2 years straight with the Horti-control LF-4. 4 ballast flip. can't imagine using anything else anymore.

 

[BonsaiBud]

With a mag ballast, you can always just replace the ignitor if it doesn't like to flip-flop. A digi ballast will probably think WTF? when it gets flipped. If you are burning pulse-start style then you need a power-interrupt, time-out for preserving your equipment. I've yet to have one of mine fail (some mini-digis and larger mag ballasts) even though they have weathered a few power outages. The ignitor just keeps trying until the stuff in the arc tube is cold enough that all the metals have condensed.

From what I have heard, the ignitor is the first thing to go - in the long run.

I'm going to try out some hot-flips and see how it goes. I am still loath towards getting a big mag ballast unless those special blue-burning lamps really do work better with a digi. Reef tanks use the ultra high Kelvin temp lamps: up to 20k. I definitely prefer a blueish color for my fish tank.

That is one nice pro looking flip box, toohighmf. Is it an instandaneus flip or is there a brief "time-out"?

 

[toohighmf]

its a hot flippin mofo! no delays.heres my flip, flipping internally in a zig zag pattern. no cool off time.. the benefits to flipping digis, is by the time the arc tube fires pretty bright, you can still see the glow of the flop. they fire instantly. no hiccups. quantums have soft start technology in case they don't fire right away, but that only happens after the bulbs are pretty wore out.

 

[green_thumb...]

So tell me you one room flippin guys guys,is flippin/staggerin lights in one room vs flippin 2 different rooms more efficient?? I ask cuz I may go with just staggerin 24k and flippin 12 in one room if so

 

[One Love 731]

Hey Toohighmf its good to see your still killin it, love the new pics. So the zig zag has been proven to work, its time to get busy planning my next run. 4 Quantum 1000w ballasts and 16 1000w bulbs sounds good to me, my electric bill thanks you. Karma, One Love

 

[toohighmf]

wwhats up one love? yeah I be staggerin and then flippin to a another room with equal or less hoods. this would require a 4 light flip and an 8 light flip.

 

[One Love 731]

Hey TooHigh I will be zig zagging by the end of March. I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate some 8' Ice boxes, dehumidifier's and a doser, Vacations wouldn't suck.

greenthumb you will use way less power with the zig zag, you can run 2 12 light flower rooms this way with 6 ballasts running 24/7, sound efficient enough? I am sure you loose some yield as compaired to a room that has 12 lights on 12 hours a day but would yield much more than only using the 6 lights (the # of ballasts you would be using) and half the space.

Karma, One Love.