☮ First time grow, need guidance! ☮ (attempted journal)

[hot cheetos]

This is a complicated question.

If you are using for veg you need less light, not because the mh is stonger, the plants need less energy in veg.

Dude put it this way I use a 200 watt CFL to veg a square meter which is 4x4. So a 400 or 600 my would more than do it per 5x5 space...

So anyway you could use 4000 watts but the question is why? Plants can only take in so many photons.

Dude you need to learn the basics before you strap into this rocket... that number of lights is too much for you, grow a crop with one light and figure it out more. Veg with a small light and flower with a 1000 or a 600. I use 600 for a 4x4 to great effect.

I admire your gusts but this type of grow will ruin it for you it's way too much. Dude I sit at home day and night and sometimes I want a day off from my 4x4 tent. Do you think I get one? Never I have to mix food and feed everyday. Worth it to me but it's a pain. Imagine battling problems with 16 touchy hydro plants

Keep postin, also in other threads. When you have hit 50 posts you will have the ability to pm. You will get a pm from me and maybe I can help you out and answer some questions in a much faster timeframe

Really appreciate your help man. I tried to leave you a reply back to your visitor message and I suffered for like 30 minutes trying to figure it out. Eventually researched to find out that there is a post limit to PM's and visitor messages, lol.

I'm so overwhelmed. Not at the fact that there is a lot to learn and a lot to figure out, but more so because there are SO MANY ways to do it that I just cant settle on which way to go with. I HATE options. And there are so many freaking options in this that its driving me crazy. From what I figure, you can pretty much do it any way you like. They will all work if done correctly. But there are certain things that are redundant. Like me using 4000 watts of MH to veg 16 fking plants . You're right.

I could just use one 1000k MH and veg those 16 plants (rooted clones by the way) in a single 4x4 tray. But i'll be using a 4x8 because thats what they will graduate to, i'd pack them to take a 4x4 footprint though. Veg them like that until theyre tall enough to reach the screen I plan to use. Then re-position them at their permanent spots (8 plants in 4x8 tray, 2 trays) and flip on the 3 remaining 1000w MHs. Place the screen above them and veg for another 1-2 weeks until the screen is 1/3 full. Swap out with HPS bulbs and flip to 12/12.

Right? Thoughts?

 

[CoCoSativas]

Really appreciate your help man. I tried to leave you a reply back to your visitor message and I suffered for like 30 minutes trying to figure it out. Eventually researched to find out that there is a post limit to PM's and visitor messages, lol.

I'm so overwhelmed. Not at the fact that there is a lot to learn and a lot to figure out, but more so because there are SO MANY ways to do it that I just cant settle on which way to go with. I HATE options. And there are so many freaking options in this that its driving me crazy. From what I figure, you can pretty much do it any way you like. They will all work if done correctly. But there are certain things that are redundant. Like me using 4000 watts of MH to veg 16 fking plants . You're right.

I could just use one 1000k MH and veg those 16 plants (rooted clones by the way) in a single 4x4 tray. But i'll be using a 4x8 because thats what they will graduate to, i'd pack them to take a 4x4 footprint though. Veg them like that until theyre tall enough to reach the screen I plan to use. Then re-position them at their permanent spots (8 plants in 4x8 tray, 2 trays) and flip on the 3 remaining 1000w MHs. Place the screen above them and veg for another 1-2 weeks until the screen is 1/3 full. Swap out with HPS bulbs and flip to 12/12.

Right? Thoughts?

A Skype conversation would clear this up way faster than the time we are spending via this shit... keep posting get to 50 so I can send you a way to talk to me amd save you some major time. Make one up if you don't have one call it hot cheetos for all I care lol.

Anyway so It dosent matter what size tray you veg on. If you want to do perpetual you will want a separate veg area so no you won't t be switching bulbs ideally though I did it the way you are thinking.

Fuck dude skip the hassle you can veg fine with hps. You are a new grower... you don't need to spend max bucks...

Anyway I'm not a scene grower I only now use one for support, but I don't scrog so I won't begin to tell you how to do it I do t know how. I grow sea of green.


It's fucking easy that way... last time I stuffed 9 big sativas in that 4x4 tent this time I got 23 ladies in there difference is these ones got less veg time by a long shot though still in 1 gal pots of coco.

Basically there's 1000 ways to grow. Mine is a hybrid of many successful growers Ive spoken too, read their threads, seen grows in person, thought up myself in some cases lol lots of cases it's just common sense. There's a science to it but you can make shit work even under less than ideal circumstances. Anyway there are many ways to grow, some are better than others. Ask me amd In my opinion coir is the best but that's MY OPPINION not fact... ask many others they say organic, then another crowd it's dwc... maybe hempie. They all have their pros and cons but in my mind the more pros and less cons the better... that's why I love coco so much.

You know you could plumb the shit to be a rdwc and that would be sick as fuck... that's what is do if I had the buckets and shit way better than its one res, and the res is outside the tent, beats the heat, and dosent take up any space. Tables are raised at least to accommodate the res, buckets sit on the floor.... so you have more choice in strains. I would never use anything g that robs me of more than a little height because I like to grow sativas... which love hydro btw keep that in mind they take a little longer to flower bit in hydro require like a week of veg time and usually yield well per plant (ssh, jack, man there's tons) amd produce amazing weed. I love the stuff.


Aside from many ways to light a space every plant grows different. So.e like to be topped so.e hate it. Some like to be tied or scrogged, so e snap if you try to bend them at all...

I spent a couple years reading before I got to actually growing. Read read read my friend...... lol btw speaking of cheesies you can get the cheetos cat as your avatar dude after 50 posts.

 

[Phases]

I just got to put my two cents in here.

First off props for going big - it will be HARD work - to put this in actual numbers I work a 40h week at my job, my second job (as I call it) I spend anywhere from 20-30 hours a week.
I have 3 600s and 1000. I have 4x4 flood and drain using hydroton, 3 dtw tables currently promix and a table with coco dtw.

All I can say is my next run is in solo cups and I am going all coco. It is so much easier and produces the same results (better for me actually) than my table does and I can grow same size plant in 1 gal pot of coco as I do with 2-3 gal of promix.

I would highly recommend taking coco sativas advice - so you might want to start out with one 4x8 table see how it goes get things dialed and iron out all the kinks (there will be some you can bet your ass) and then once your rocking out in the other table.

read your ass off and your definitely in the right place to learn.

Hope that helps. Can't wait to hear what you decide to do. Building that first grow room is super fun, warning though - growing is addictive! (Example it's 8am I have to leave for work in like 30mins and Iam on ICMAG!!

 

[mowood3479]

Who is getting 2 grams a watt? That's some rarified air...
Op u have gotten some solid advice so far.
A 4k Scrog of dwc buckets sounds like a logistical nightmare.
I'll throw my vote in for coco dtw (drain to waste).
Easy, simple and effective....
Or even flood tables...

 

[CoCoSativas]

Who is getting 2 grams a watt? That's some rarified air...
Op u have gotten some solid advice so far.
A 4k Scrog of dwc buckets sounds like a logistical nightmare.
I'll throw my vote in for coco dtw (drain to waste).
Easy, simple and effective....
Or even flood tables...

LoL people do it all the time... but those are high yield strains so it's not like they are producing 2gpw of my grade. Lol you couldn't do it with my strains...

@phases thanks man. Yeah I mean I'm really just trying to make the ops life easier, lower his e bill and make it more productive. I'm sure the shop sold him on this setup, or a friend or his stoned mind dreamed it up... anyway it came to pass this is a huge endeavour. I hope we can help the op figure this out.

Just take note though how many people use coco... the coco subforum us always popping and lots of members kick it there. Some don't even use coco just come to watch us do our thing. Many leave as coco converts.

 

[hot cheetos]

Appreciate the motivation guys.

CocoSativa - been reading a lot just not in the habit of posting. Don't really have much to contribute anyway and asking a question on a 7 year old thread seems pointless. I'll try though, maybe post some nonsense lol.

Nah, I don't go to hydro stores it feels like you're at a dealership. People cramming shit down your throat. I just put whatever I knew together. I've been researching for a few years on and off. I've always felt very passionate about growing, I just wasn't in the position before where I could grow my own. So I just put whatever I knew together, thats how I got to the set-up in mind. Like DWC and scrog are "meant to be" as a lot of people claim so thats what I was thinking of doing. But theres no way. I'm either doing RDWC or ebb&flow tables. That way i'll only have 2 reservoirs to look after. I wanted to do drain to waste because it seems a lot more efficient but that feels like A LOT of nutrient solution going to waste. If I had my tables packed tight (like the 400 plant SOG i plan to do) then I wouldn't mind draining to waste since most of the solution will be sucked up by the pots. But in this case there will be a lot of solution that doesn't even touch the roots and then it gets drained away. Am I right or am I missing something?

If I do the flood tables I'll probably use 5gal buckets filled with coco. Maybe 10gal pots? Maybe smart pots? As I stated before there will be 4 plants in a 4x4 space with a 4x4 screen over the top, i might just make a 4x8 screen if i do the tables and just put it in the table. So each plant is only filling out 1 foot in each direction, so basically 2 square feet of screen per plant. How long would I veg the plants in this case? I'd probably put the screen anywhere from 8 inches to 12 inches above the grow medium.


Just though of something...why don't people put the screen extreme close? Like 4 inches. That way even your lower branches will be a part of the canopy as well and you wouldnt have to clean up the bottom. More plant, the screen will fill faster, and you'll be able to flip to 12/12 faster. Sounds like a win all around. It'll be like a SOG in terms of very little veg time but it will have the yield of a scrog because you'd have a huge canopy. ??????

 

[CoCoSativas]

Appreciate the motivation guys.

CocoSativa - been reading a lot just not in the habit of posting. Don't really have much to contribute anyway and asking a question on a 7 year old thread seems pointless. I'll try though, maybe post some nonsense lol.

Nah, I don't go to hydro stores it feels like you're at a dealership. People cramming shit down your throat. I just put whatever I knew together. I've been researching for a few years on and off. I've always felt very passionate about growing, I just wasn't in the position before where I could grow my own. So I just put whatever I knew together, thats how I got to the set-up in mind. Like DWC and scrog are "meant to be" as a lot of people claim so thats what I was thinking of doing. But theres no way. I'm either doing RDWC or ebb&flow tables. That way i'll only have 2 reservoirs to look after. I wanted to do drain to waste because it seems a lot more efficient but that feels like A LOT of nutrient solution going to waste. If I had my tables packed tight (like the 400 plant SOG i plan to do) then I wouldn't mind draining to waste since most of the solution will be sucked up by the pots. But in this case there will be a lot of solution that doesn't even touch the roots and then it gets drained away. Am I right or am I missing something?

If I do the flood tables I'll probably use 5gal buckets filled with coco. Maybe 10gal pots? Maybe smart pots? As I stated before there will be 4 plants in a 4x4 space with a 4x4 screen over the top, i might just make a 4x8 screen if i do the tables and just put it in the table. So each plant is only filling out 1 foot in each direction, so basically 2 square feet of screen per plant. How long would I veg the plants in this case? I'd probably put the screen anywhere from 8 inches to 12 inches above the grow medium.


Just though of something...why don't people put the screen extreme close? Like 4 inches. That way even your lower branches will be a part of the canopy as well and you wouldnt have to clean up the bottom. More plant, the screen will fill faster, and you'll be able to flip to 12/12 faster. Sounds like a win all around. It'll be like a SOG in terms of very little veg time but it will have the yield of a scrog because you'd have a huge canopy. ??????

Trust me dtw with coco. You aren't loosing money, Jesus Christmas that's the worst one I hear all the time. First you don't have to run off so you aren't wasting jack and if you do, you are running off shit the plants don't want (read about cation exchange) and flushing it away. Anyway you runoff a small amount it's not a big deal but you don't have o this grow I'm not.

Rdwc you can do 1 res and makes more sense plus less pumps, cost, noise, setup pain etc...

No one can answer how long to veg something. We don't know your system, genetics or skill

 

[Phases]

Hey cocos - why I th biggest pot sized you have used for coco? And How long of a veg period did you do. To me it seems like using the one gal pots for around 3 week veg is perfect get nice huge root mass in there and feed 3x a day or so. Just wondering your thoughts on this the op mentioned 5-10 gal of coco and I am thinking that you would either have to veg for a long ass time or you would end up overwatering esp in flood and drain system.

 

[CoCoSativas]

Hey cocos - why I th biggest pot sized you have used for coco? And How long of a veg period did you do. To me it seems like using the one gal pots for around 3 week veg is perfect get nice huge root mass in there and feed 3x a day or so. Just wondering your thoughts on this the op mentioned 5-10 gal of coco and I am thinking that you would either have to veg for a long ass time or you would end up overwatering esp in flood and drain system.

People think it's like soil you need big pots. Anyone who has visited my thread knows that's not true and not always a good thing, bigger pots. Dirt maybe but we are talking coco not dirt.

Biggest pots I used was 3 gals, vegged for 6 weeks and they tool up 1.5 gals. Said fuck 3 gals after that that's for fools or timewasters. Plus I don't re use coco so I like to do the one shot in the pot, plant the clone, lives it's whole life in there and when I'm done cut the plant down and empty the container into the trash. I was trying to probe the coco gods wrong I could grow trees in 3 gals, no point.

So then I adopted my root binding thing which I knew from soil, you can actually do the same thing o do in coco in soil just it's different. It takes alot of practice to root bind plants without I'll effect, really the only effect you want is to stunt them... allows you to grow what would normally be a huge wild mess and keep it moderate. Anyway you can veg 2 to 4 weeks maybe longer with a og, and be totally happy in a one gal.

Lol I'm switching it up, rather than grow larger size plants with more veg this time I elected to crown 23 plants in a square meter. It's so busy in there it looks like a scrog grow I love it totally full

 

[Phases]

That's what I was thinking I did a couple in 3 gal pots but begged for like 8 weeks. And for me the extra veg time wasn't worth it. I do same thing your saying where I veg them in 1 gal pots (well clone to solo cup to 1gal) then when the last run is finished I move the fully begged plants into flower room - non stop cycles- I was doing it so I pulled every 30 days but it was too much work. I d rather a bigger pull every 60 I think. Wel lets be honest I d rather a bug pull every 30 but it's too much work - 3 600s and a 1000 - that's a lot of area to deal with.

I don't know anything about root binding- but I am going to look into it.
Do you have any threads that you explain root binding? If so maybe send me a link of you can. If you want you can post it in my tips and tricks thread - link in my signature - just so don't clog up this thread.

 

[CoCoSativas]

That's what I was thinking I did a couple in 3 gal pots but begged for like 8 weeks. And for me the extra veg time wasn't worth it. I do same thing your saying where I veg them in 1 gal pots (well clone to solo cup to 1gal) then when the last run is finished I move the fully begged plants into flower room - non stop cycles- I was doing it so I pulled every 30 days but it was too much work. I d rather a bigger pull every 60 I think. Wel lets be honest I d rather a bug pull every 30 but it's too much work - 3 600s and a 1000 - that's a lot of area to deal with.

I don't know anything about root binding- but I am going to look into it.
Do you have any threads that you explain root binding? If so maybe send me a link of you can. If you want you can post it in my tips and tricks thread - link in my signature - just so don't clog up this thread.

It's not something really talked about or well understood. It's a discipline I developed on my own, partially after I made a mistake and realized the potential of root binding on purpose, so started to work toward a way to make it produce the same result as the one I forgot to transplant.

If you want to talk about it send me a pm and I'll discuss it with you, this isn't the appropriate place for me to break down my techniques. It's just going to confuse a novice grower, he's got so many other things to worry about, not trying to do the wacky tough shit I do

 

[hot cheetos]

It's not something really talked about or well understood. It's a discipline I developed on my own, partially after I made a mistake and realized the potential of root binding on purpose, so started to work toward a way to make it produce the same result as the one I forgot to transplant.

If you want to talk about it send me a pm and I'll discuss it with you, this isn't the appropriate place for me to break down my techniques. It's just going to confuse a novice grower, he's got so many other things to worry about, not trying to do the wacky tough shit I do

#truth lol

I read somewhere about using root-binding to your advantage. I don't even want to start researching that, lol. Maybe after a couple successful grows first.

On the other had, I made a cute little DIY RDWC systems for fun just to get a better visual idea of how the system works and gets put together. Used straws and a few styrofoam cups I had laying around.
Its cute lol and it works. If i had a little tiny pump where the green straw starts and some tiny airstones it would be good to go lol. I might actually make the tiny pump out of a bottle cap and tiny motor rotor just for fun.

Don't take this seriously. Obviously its not for real and not practical. I know people use the big totes and fit double the plant-sites that this systems footprint takes up.
This is basically the same as the real system right? If it was bigger?


I've bought almost everything to get this grow going. All thats left is for me to fucking DECIDE on what grow method I want to go with. Still bouncing back and forth. Just gotta decide on rdwc or ebb&flow and build/buy the system, buy nutrients and I'm good to go.

 

[CoCoSativas]

#truth lol

I read somewhere about using root-binding to your advantage. I don't even want to start researching that, lol. Maybe after a couple successful grows first.

On the other had, I made a cute little DIY RDWC systems for fun just to get a better visual idea of how the system works and gets put together. Used straws and a few styrofoam cups I had laying around.
Its cute lol and it works. If i had a little tiny pump where the green straw starts and some tiny airstones it would be good to go lol. I might actually make the tiny pump out of a bottle cap and tiny motor rotor just for fun.

Don't take this seriously. Obviously its not for real and not practical. I know people use the big totes and fit double the plant-sites that this systems footprint takes up.
This is basically the same as the real system right? If it was bigger?


I've bought almost everything to get this grow going. All thats left is for me to fucking DECIDE on what grow method I want to go with. Still bouncing back and forth. Just gotta decide on rdwc or ebb&flow and build/buy the system, buy nutrients and I'm good to go.

You can't root bind my way unless you grow dirt or soulless like coco... you need to be able to physically constrict root growth, an hydro has no way to do this unless you are in dwc small buckets but it dosent make sense in dwc or any hydro. If you want smaller plants or more control of their growth anyway has to be substrate in a container

 

[bigdad41296]

I've read for a few years on here and cocosativa is putting you in the right direction he knows his shit.

 

[CoCoSativas]

I've read for a few years on here and cocosativa is putting you in the right direction he knows his shit.

thank you

 

[hot cheetos]

Ughhhhhhhh

What does anyone know about the Flo-N-Gro by Titan Controls?

Its crazy man. Ebb and Flow system costs me about 1500 out the door. Trays, reservoirs, lids, pumps, buckets, and coco grow medium. Whereas the Flo-N-Gro system costs me 583 out the door.

Logically when I think about it, Flo n Gro is literally the same exact thing as an Ebb and Flow tray system, but more efficient and smarter. At the end of the day the goal is to fill up the buckets from the bottom up, then drain. One system flood as entire tray as a means of flooding the buckets, the other system just floods the individual buckets.

What are your thoughts guys?

 

[CoCoSativas]

Ughhhhhhhh

What does anyone know about the Flo-N-Gro by Titan Controls?

Its crazy man. Ebb and Flow system costs me about 1500 out the door. Trays, reservoirs, lids, pumps, buckets, and coco grow medium. Whereas the Flo-N-Gro system costs me 583 out the door.

Logically when I think about it, Flo n Gro is literally the same exact thing as an Ebb and Flow tray system, but more efficient and smarter. At the end of the day the goal is to fill up the buckets from the bottom up, then drain. One system flood as entire tray as a means of flooding the buckets, the other system just floods the individual buckets.

What are your thoughts guys?

A brick of coco is 10 to 15 bucks for 10 to 15 gals and you can put a plant per 1 gal and grow big or small plants. Why pay 1500 bucks for that shit?

You can flood the tray or individual buckets both systems are popular but pricey and if something goes wrong (hydro guys alwayd have spare pumps and gear on hand smart ones anyway) or power dies ouch could be the death of your plants. Not much to go wrong with coco unles you cant handle mixing solution, in which case a person cant do any hydro.

From my standpoint if i was going to spend all this money i would ise a constantly recurculating system myself over flood and drain but thats because i preffer the idea of drip, nft, or rdwc from a plumbing and operational standpoint, though the flood drain tyrpes if something goes out you can handwater in desperate times so theres that to consider too... for me i would pick a hydro if something happened they wont die. For me COCO IS KING i cant really find a way to beat it so its what i do