Kinda sparse growth, no? Might work great with a donut though. 
Finished my run with the 315w CMH. Week sauce!
- Thread starter heatherlonglee
- Start date
N
noyd666
will be good soon as its under gavita for short spell. I trim and clean them out all the time & can get a bit sparse until put under gavita1000,only eat donuts.
Im kind of confused here. Are you guys comparing a 315 watt CMH to a 1000 watt Hort?
We have several CMH. 315 is not enough for a 4 x 4 tray. You have to run a 630. I think it compares to or exceeds 800 watts of sodium or Halide light. I have them all, but havnt run the sodium or halide for a long time. CMH have a good spectrum, far less heat, and cost less to operate for what you get
Run 1000 watts of CMH and compare that to a 1000 watt sodium or halide. I predict that the CMH will win, hands down.
We have several CMH. 315 is not enough for a 4 x 4 tray. You have to run a 630. I think it compares to or exceeds 800 watts of sodium or Halide light. I have them all, but havnt run the sodium or halide for a long time. CMH have a good spectrum, far less heat, and cost less to operate for what you get
Run 1000 watts of CMH and compare that to a 1000 watt sodium or halide. I predict that the CMH will win, hands down.
heatherlonglee
Active member
I'm not really in agreement that the CMH was developed specifically for horticulture. Honestly just the way the UV & Blue light drop off so hard tells me not really designed for plants or the bulb wasn't designed by the best available horticultural scientist at the time. Why does Phillips block the UV the bulb naturally makes? If you think Phillips hasn't designed the bulb to block UV; please show some evidence?
With just a small amount of googling I found a quote from a Phillips HID product manager in 1994.
"We call them ‘halogen killers’ because their color is so good they can tackle retail applications like spots and tracks," said Bill Ryan, HID product manager at Philips, at the time.
History lesson In 2010-2011
When the city of Chicago was looking in 2010 for a new energy-efficient standard for street and alley lights, it chose ceramic metal halide (CMH) lamps, becoming the first large U.S. city to use the new lighting technology.
Chicago finished installing 11,000 CMH lights in 300 miles of alleys and 5,300 streetlamps on famous Lake Shore Drive and Western Avenue in August 2011.
Above taken from link below
https://lumenistics.com/ceramic-metal-halide-lighting-basics/
Now this is where we get confused. The city of Chicago bought 11,000 bulbs that were originally designed for horticulture. Phillips would stand to make more money at the time selling these bulbs to who again?
The link from University of Utah I already posted I'll post again. https://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/USU_spectral_analysis.pdf
Some good info here. Funny how they actually say maybe Phillips spectral data may be off some and not in the fan boys favor.
From Utah State University web link posted above
"Our replicate measurements (calibrated to an NIST traceable lamp) indicate that Philips data is high in the UV/blue wavelengths. See the associated graph for details. This may be variation among lamps, but it may also be the calibration of the spectroradiometer used by Philips."
"The CMH lamp has a more uniform spectral output than the other widely used lamps for plant growth lighting. This is often a significant advantage in lighting for humans, but it is not necessarily an advantage for plants, since the energy absorbed at one wavelength can be transferred to reaction centers and effectively used for photosynthesis."
Honestly not exactly sure what that last quote means but sounds like right out the gate Utah State University is saying this may not be the best bulb around for horticulture; dating back to 2012. Also sounds like back in 2012 was already common knowledge that
If you haven't checked out the link from Utah State University really should check it out it's on the phillips bulb we all use. Also some graphs farther down comparing EYE/GE bulbs and some other types of bulbs.
With just a small amount of googling I found a quote from a Phillips HID product manager in 1994.
"We call them ‘halogen killers’ because their color is so good they can tackle retail applications like spots and tracks," said Bill Ryan, HID product manager at Philips, at the time.
History lesson In 2010-2011
When the city of Chicago was looking in 2010 for a new energy-efficient standard for street and alley lights, it chose ceramic metal halide (CMH) lamps, becoming the first large U.S. city to use the new lighting technology.
Chicago finished installing 11,000 CMH lights in 300 miles of alleys and 5,300 streetlamps on famous Lake Shore Drive and Western Avenue in August 2011.
Above taken from link below
https://lumenistics.com/ceramic-metal-halide-lighting-basics/
Now this is where we get confused. The city of Chicago bought 11,000 bulbs that were originally designed for horticulture. Phillips would stand to make more money at the time selling these bulbs to who again?
The link from University of Utah I already posted I'll post again. https://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/USU_spectral_analysis.pdf
Some good info here. Funny how they actually say maybe Phillips spectral data may be off some and not in the fan boys favor.
From Utah State University web link posted above
"Our replicate measurements (calibrated to an NIST traceable lamp) indicate that Philips data is high in the UV/blue wavelengths. See the associated graph for details. This may be variation among lamps, but it may also be the calibration of the spectroradiometer used by Philips."
"The CMH lamp has a more uniform spectral output than the other widely used lamps for plant growth lighting. This is often a significant advantage in lighting for humans, but it is not necessarily an advantage for plants, since the energy absorbed at one wavelength can be transferred to reaction centers and effectively used for photosynthesis."
Honestly not exactly sure what that last quote means but sounds like right out the gate Utah State University is saying this may not be the best bulb around for horticulture; dating back to 2012. Also sounds like back in 2012 was already common knowledge that
wasn't true and just weed grower/fan boy misnomers.
If you haven't checked out the link from Utah State University really should check it out it's on the phillips bulb we all use. Also some graphs farther down comparing EYE/GE bulbs and some other types of bulbs.
I've read that study from Utah State. You are obviously not well educated in plant growth, photosynthesis and how plants use different wavelengths across the spectrum. I'd even bet you'd claim that plants don't use green light........
This whole thread is exposing you for a fool in this area of growing.
I try to be the most non-confrontational person around but, this is crap. Learn to grow and come back.
This whole thread is exposing you for a fool in this area of growing.
I try to be the most non-confrontational person around but, this is crap. Learn to grow and come back.
heatherlonglee
Active member
Hey Azeotrope! You know more than Utah State University? Care to comment on how their above quoted comments are wrong? What about that chlorophyl A, chlorophyl B absorption chart? The chart doesn't really seem to say all light colors are equal? Care to comment on that also?
I'm not saying to use one bulb the entire grow; I'm saying use several! Specifically I'm telling you to start with just last 20 days of flower use the MH Blue from Hortilux. CMH for veg and days 1-11 flowering, HPS day 12 till 20 days left in flowering cycle then use the MH Blue from Hortilux for last 20 days of flowering.
No over grown stems here, no saying green light anything, just saying bigger better buds using the 3 bulb system.
I'm not saying to use one bulb the entire grow; I'm saying use several! Specifically I'm telling you to start with just last 20 days of flower use the MH Blue from Hortilux. CMH for veg and days 1-11 flowering, HPS day 12 till 20 days left in flowering cycle then use the MH Blue from Hortilux for last 20 days of flowering.
No over grown stems here, no saying green light anything, just saying bigger better buds using the 3 bulb system.
Watt it a watt!!!! Comparing 315 to 1000 reminds me of the led hustle I blew the bank on when they were new... lol... it's all situated around set up... replacing 10 1ks with 10 315 ur yield is obviously gonna drop u gonna get much less per sq ft but gpw may be there... I did hear ppl pulling a lb out a 315 in a 5x5 tent from reliable sources but they were seed runs and we all know seed is heavy... I also hit a lb with 400w dog way back in the day on a mover... also hear nuthin but good bout the de cmh 945 or 630s if u want to compare to a 1k god better use one of the de cmh types out there
forgetiwashere
New member
ceramic metal hallide was not initially designed for horticulture but the 315w lamp was.
i was one of those early adopters growing with the old 400w phillips mastercolor lamps.
once phillips realised what they had they decided to turn it into a cash cow in my opinion. the old mastercolor lamps were like $30 each and ran on a regular HPS ballast. honestly i dont see much difference between the old mastercolors and the new 315's except for the power difference.
that said i have grown with 400w hps 400w cmh 600w hps 1000w hps 315w cmh and 630w cmh. its horses for courses. in a small tent 4 x 4 tent i can consistently pull pounds with a single 315w. gram for watt on that is pretty hard to beat. that said i do prefer to run 630w cmh in that space even though i dont really gain a lot in weight but i do get a bit more penetration and lower nugs fill in more etc.
i would say a single 315w can match a 400w, a 630w cmh will leap ahead of a 600w hps and i dare say 3 x 315w will blow away a 1000w HPS especially if your smart with them. effectively you could cover a 3x12 tray with 3 315's
i was one of those early adopters growing with the old 400w phillips mastercolor lamps.
once phillips realised what they had they decided to turn it into a cash cow in my opinion. the old mastercolor lamps were like $30 each and ran on a regular HPS ballast. honestly i dont see much difference between the old mastercolors and the new 315's except for the power difference.
that said i have grown with 400w hps 400w cmh 600w hps 1000w hps 315w cmh and 630w cmh. its horses for courses. in a small tent 4 x 4 tent i can consistently pull pounds with a single 315w. gram for watt on that is pretty hard to beat. that said i do prefer to run 630w cmh in that space even though i dont really gain a lot in weight but i do get a bit more penetration and lower nugs fill in more etc.
i would say a single 315w can match a 400w, a 630w cmh will leap ahead of a 600w hps and i dare say 3 x 315w will blow away a 1000w HPS especially if your smart with them. effectively you could cover a 3x12 tray with 3 315's
This is a good idea if doable.... smaller set ups swapping bulbs is money and no reason not to do it .. now when it comes to larger rooms changing multiple bulbs over large canopy ain't worth the headache ... better to run mixed spectrum or not care... I've ran many types of bulbs setups and really the difference is negligible... if I was to mix hps n cmh buds together in a lb nobody would tell... light is only part of it.. can grow that good good with any light . Ya light really gets dictated by environment and what ya got to control it.... a rock solid nute regiment helps to ... all bout consistency, gotta have everything right n it's fire every time... those 3 things light , environment, nutrition, millions of ways to perfect each none better then the others it's all bout what's Available to ya n what works best for your room..
I currently run mixed spectrum de hps with a few de mh mixed in and love it in my main rooms also got a few gavita leps in there to I never took down I never seen much difference with or without they just up so I run them ... a tent with 2. 630 cmh , some tents I use for tests with 315s now , first run , replaced 600w hps with 1 and 1000w hps with 2... all in all it's hard to tell the difference in finished product if possible at all...
Also just got given some induction lighting haven't heard much about them except salespeople saying they great n ppl saying they super expensive garbage just run ya floro lol but gonna see for myself not expecting much at all.... but I've learned most the time it'll fall in between somewhere but at least I'll know...
forgetiwashere
New member
sorry let me clear that up. when i said i consistently pull pounds i meant it as i can consistently pull a lb per grow with a single 315w not multiple pounds per grow.
That makes more sense I've heard it,,. Stuck 1 in a 5x5 with a 4x4 table and 2 in a 5x5 to see for myself... reall dig the 630s in the 5x9 but the quality is the same in all my grows regardless of lighting ... ppl saying cmh is better probably couldn't maintain 1000s switching to less watts cmh lights improved there set up dramatically but take a dialed in room with 1k de and swap for 630s ur yield will drop no more 3 per guaranteed...
forgetiwashere
New member
yeah being a small tent grower i did find 1000w to be too much for sure. i also spend a lot of time with my girls just staring at them so i like the crisp white light.
i dont really care which light is better. the CMH suits me
oh and an elbow under a single 315w just so you dont think im talking out my arse
the buds dont get massive under the single 315w so you have to cram lots in there lol
Protect your eyes. All grow lighting damages your eyes, even micro grow lighting when you're very close to them and working with your plants. Some damage never heals and over time you can lose your eyesight.
You won't notice it's a problem until it's too late, so protect your eyes today and you'll be able to see your plants 20 years from now.
You won't notice it's a problem until it's too late, so protect your eyes today and you'll be able to see your plants 20 years from now.
lbs/sqft/yr to be more exact
kickarse
Active member
Protect your eyes. All grow lighting damages your eyes, even micro grow lighting when you're very close to them and working with your plants. Some damage never heals and over time you can lose your eyesight.
You won't notice it's a problem until it's too late, so protect your eyes today and you'll be able to see your plants 20 years from now.
spot on, 30 years of indoor growing, my eyes are stuffed
that's with HPS, the 315s are harder on the eye IMO
kickarse
Active member
My mistake, a lb is still a good result off 315w
got a couple 315s, never done a full crop, only use them for grow
might do a complete grow one day,
its hard to go past a 1000 hps for flowering tho
only grow inside in winter, there is not enough heat in the small lights, might be good for a small summer indoor grow
i do outside for amounts and indoor for a bit of sativa verity
archaicatoms
Active member
I used these for years. Extremely expensive. They last about 2 months, three if you're pushing it. Only doing it for the last two weeks would extend this. But, still crazy expensive. It ads up quick... The CMH seem to have a better longevity..
