Finish drying my bud in the freezer in my kitchen?!?

[Bio boy]

i saw that liquid nitrogen freezing like on fish to make fish fingers doesnt get a chance to destroy any properties as when frozen ya veg looses vitamins, nitro doesnt,

so if freezer = better here already think what liquid nitro can do .. any 1 got some???

and the weed getting frozen into a block of ice cant be bad..... i used to use the water cure method, put wet bud in some tights then suspend it under water for a fewdays or more, then dry it with a fan on a warm surface and ya have cured weed it helps to remove the chloraphyll faster aswel as drying them out

so the ice block should be salvageable

 

[jus'plain'gill]

I've successfully used this technique (sort of), but it works far more slowly for me. This last batch that I've got going went into the freezer (in a large, shallow, uncovered box) 3-1/2 weeks ago. I had air-dried the buds for 4 days prior to putting them in the freezer, and they measured 70% humidity when I tested a small bunch of them in a jar. Yesterday I pulled out another sample, let it thaw out, jarred it up and and let it sit for a several hours. Still at 70%! I'm using a late-model frost-free refrigerator/freezer with a bottom freezer.

The last time I did it, I had the buds frozen for several weeks and still had to use the jar/burping method to finish them off. Anyone got any ideas?

This is odd and I'm not sure what advice to give... It's been my experience that the freezer curing is a slow process (my buds might lose 5-10% moisture over a period of 3-4 weeks) but I have seen it work each time so far. If your freezer keeps your food properly frozen and frost-free then I doubt the issue is with the appliance itself. I'm dumbfounded

Best I can think of is: once they're removed from the freezer, I have found that I have to let my buds "breathe" for 6-12 hours before they are sealed up into airtight containers. I'm not sure if it has something to do with condensation forming from the drastic change in environment or what...

I'm not a physicist or anything - but I would try taking them in and out. I've found that my coffee stays fresher in air tight container at room temperature. Because of the condensation freezing and then evaporation at room temp it dries out really quickly with just taking it out the freezer daily over the course of a week. I imagine that bud would be similar.

Pine

Like I just said above, I have found that I have to let the buds "breathe" for 6-12 hours before they are sealed up into airtight containers. It appears our experiences are similar

i saw that liquid nitrogen freezing like on fish to make fish fingers doesnt get a chance to destroy any properties as when frozen ya veg looses vitamins, nitro doesnt,

so if freezer = better here already think what liquid nitro can do .. any 1 got some???

and the weed getting frozen into a block of ice cant be bad..... i used to use the water cure method, put wet bud in some tights then suspend it under water for a fewdays or more, then dry it with a fan on a warm surface and ya have cured weed it helps to remove the chloraphyll faster aswel as drying them out

so the ice block should be salvageable

Interesting thoughts here. I don't have access to anything like liquid nitrogen but if there are any science professors out there that can experiment, it'd be REAL COOL to see what is possible with lab grade methods


Keep it up and take care,



.JPG

 

[mrcreosote]

jus'plain'gill
I'm looking forward to giving this a go in 9-10 days. I have a full size stand up freezer I was thinking of selling after Christmas as I don't really need that much freezer anymore.
I may change my mind and keep the freezer.
It would make a damn fine locking stashbox.

 

[rives]

I'm not a physicist or anything - but I would try taking them in and out. I've found that my coffee stays fresher in air tight container at room temperature. Because of the condensation freezing and then evaporation at room temp it dries out really quickly with just taking it out the freezer daily over the course of a week. I imagine that bud would be similar.

Pine

Best I can think of is: once they're removed from the freezer, I have found that I have to let my buds "breathe" for 6-12 hours before they are sealed up into airtight containers. I'm not sure if it has something to do with condensation forming from the drastic change in environment or what...

I think that you two are on to something here. After I saw Pinecone's post, I pulled the box out of the freezer and let it sit out for a few hours, then put it back in, and then repeated the process. Voila! When I jarred it up this time, one batch was at 61%, and the other (denser) variety was a 65%. Gill, I think this may be a critical part of your process. Perhaps the moisture is being pulled out of the buds, but freezes on the surface and needs a chance to evaporate before jarring.

 

[cody2white]

I think you guys did nail it!

 

[City Twin]

Voice of experience here. If you have a freezer to dedicate to dry curing, set the thermo at just below freezing. You'll get better results faster.

 

[mrcreosote]

City Twin,
Interesting idea that's do-able in my case.
Any reason that you can think of why 30 f would be better than 0 f ? I have no experience with either temp. but it would be tempting to think that a lower temp would aid/ speed the evaporation process.

The Tim Taylor More Power Theory...

 

[jus'plain'gill]

I think that you two are on to something here. After I saw Pinecone's post, I pulled the box out of the freezer and let it sit out for a few hours, then put it back in, and then repeated the process. Voila! When I jarred it up this time, one batch was at 61%, and the other (denser) variety was a 65%. Gill, I think this may be a critical part of your process. Perhaps the moisture is being pulled out of the buds, but freezes on the surface and needs a chance to evaporate before jarring.

It took a little trial and error to figure out some of the details of this curing method but with experimentation great results have been achieved. However, I'm sure there is more room for improvement (there is Always room for improvement) as far as the preservation of the glands and oils; which leads to this:

Voice of experience here. If you have a freezer to dedicate to dry curing, set the thermo at just below freezing. You'll get better results faster.

I want to know more. Changing the variables means the process will work differently which means the end product should, could, come out differently... and different could mean better You've already dropped a gem of info earlier in this thread...

I wish I could experiment with temps but that wouldn't be good for the meats in my freezer.

City Twin,
Interesting idea that's do-able in my case.
Any reason that you can think of why 30 f would be better than 0 f ? I have no experience with either temp. but it would be tempting to think that a lower temp would aid/ speed the evaporation process.

The Tim Taylor More Power Theory...

I def subscribed to that school of thought on many subjects, but now.... Its like your nutrients: can't go too strong or you'll burn your plants. And like your lights, can't get too close or they'll burn your plants. Now I'm not sure if even being at the threshold is the best thing for optimal health... Just because you can go 1,100 ppms without burning doesn't mean its ideal for health. Just because you can get your canopy to within 6 inches of the 600 watt bulb without burning or bleaching doesn't mean its ideal...

I'm not saying less is more but maybe it is

This thread doesn't have enough pictures

Critical+ @ 46 days flower

Take care,



.JPG

 

[City Twin]

OK neighbors, here’s the run down.

Freezer drying is possible. Basically its: frost-free unit + high temp = drying environment. Here's why and how.

1) Water expands when it freezes rupturing cell walls of plant materials as ice crystals form.

2) A calorie is a unit of measure of heat exchange/transfer. It takes 1 calorie of transfer to raise or lower 1 gram (ml / cc) of water 1 degree Celsius. It takes 10 - 80 calories of transfer to form ice. Because of this property still water can be at or below freezing point with out icing, unless disturbed or seeded with a little ice.

3) A frost-free freezer operates by maintaining the chamber as dry as possible. To keep frost down the unit will heat its walls on occasion to melt any frost and a fan agitates the warmish air to defrost other surfaces.

The industry reports humidity in a frost free unit to be around 55 to 65% at zero degrees F.. Slightly higher during defrost cycle. I never found a reference to humidity at 30-32 F., but presume it to be near the same range.

To freezer dry, use a good thermometer and set the lowest temp within a degree ( C ) or two ( F ) of the freezing point. This should prevent any actual ice from forming within the cell walls.

Be certain specimens to be dried are absent surface moisture. Place mushrooms or herbs on racks or screens to allow air flow. Dehydration of smaller mushrooms and leafy herbs is usually very complete in 12 or more hours depending on size of load. Bulkier herbs, tomato slices and such, in 72 hours or more. Again depending on size of the load. A couple of small computer fans circulating air inside can speed the process.

What I think happens is specimens begin to dry as usual, maintaining intracellular equilibrium with internal water wicking its way to the dryer outer surface. The relatively high temperature precludes a rapid enough calorie exchange to begin crystallization and form ice internally. If frost should form on the surface it does little or no damage.

A little more explanation on water crystallization from - http://whyfiles.org/071questions/4.html

“To change matter from the one state to another, you must add or remove heat energy. To cool one gram of water by one degree Celsius, you must remove one calorie of heat energy. But after the water reaches 0 degrees Celsius, freezing requires the removal of almost 80 calories -- the heat of fusion. Similarly, you must add almost 80 calories to melt one gram of ice at 0 degrees Celsius.”

 

[mrcreosote]

Most interesting twin... I'll give it a go and report back. Just got to get the stragglers in the fridge freezer and bring the freezer temp up.

I wonder , since the humidty is 55-65%, if pre-drying is even necessary? Why not just throw bud in the freezer green since the freezer is ideal humidity to dry anyway? You don't have to worry about mold in a freezer.

How much you want to bet Wifey will buy an ass-load of frozen stuff for Christmas?

BTW; love your avatar. Ironheads are a thing of beauty.
I got a shovel head but only because I can't kick a pan with a game leg.
Old fool riding old school.

 

[mrcreosote]

Gill,
That Critical really puts out the flowers huh?
I got a Critical Jack Herer that is just loaded with nice sized buds and the smoke is really nice and trippy. The kind you have to be careful with or the rushes get a wee bit intense, at least for lightweights like me.

Nothing wrong with a flower machine that makes you want to cry for yo mama.
Definitely a keeper. Dina Fem has some quality genetics in this lady. Highly recommended.

 

[City Twin]

mrcreosote,

I got this idea originally for drying mushrooms and ran a few tests. If there was surface moisture I would tend to get spots on the dried produce. Allowing to dry off prevented that blemishing. Raising the temp speeded drying.

I just figure for leafy herbs, it would be good form to start with outer cell walls completely dry, so the interior was a little out of equilibrium and ready to begin wicking from the interior cells.

I could be all wet on this part.

And yes, I do enjoy the old 45 flatheads. Fun to ride and perfect for these mountain roads. English transmission and wheels for a lot less rolling resistance and better brakes. AMAL carb for over 90 MPH on otherwise bone stock engine, with enough “ummphhh” to get out of the way.

Ride Safe.

 

[jus'plain'gill]

OK neighbors, here’s the run down.

Freezer drying is possible. Basically its: frost-free unit + high temp = drying environment. Here's why and how...


...What I think happens is specimens begin to dry as usual, maintaining intracellular equilibrium with internal water wicking its way to the dryer outer surface. The relatively high temperature precludes a rapid enough calorie exchange to begin crystallization and form ice internally. If frost should form on the surface it does little or no damage.

A little more explanation on water crystallization from - http://whyfiles.org/071questions/4.html

“To change matter from the one state to another, you must add or remove heat energy. To cool one gram of water by one degree Celsius, you must remove one calorie of heat energy. But after the water reaches 0 degrees Celsius, freezing requires the removal of almost 80 calories -- the heat of fusion. Similarly, you must add almost 80 calories to melt one gram of ice at 0 degrees Celsius.”

If your freezer is at a temperature that won't allow the water in your buds to freeze then the process of sublimation can't take place. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, just that we will be curing with a different method if the buds aren't frozen. I'm going to try this is soon as I get the chance. I believe I have one frozen pizza and some frozen berries to eat then I can clean the rest of the junk out of the freezer and get the temp up to 32f

The one thing that I'll be concerned about with a good sized harvest is too much moisture in such a small space and the potential for mold; or water dripping down the insides of the freezer. I don't have that concern at all with 0-10f... But, nonetheless, I wanna try it. Thanks for the info City Twin.

Gill,
That Critical really puts out the flowers huh?
I got a Critical Jack Herer that is just loaded with nice sized buds and the smoke is really nice and trippy. The kind you have to be careful with or the rushes get a wee bit intense, at least for lightweights like me.

Nothing wrong with a flower machine that makes you want to cry for yo mama.
Definitely a keeper. Dina Fem has some quality genetics in this lady. Highly recommended.

Yo MrC, I'm digging both the dinafem strains I have going atm. The Critical+ and Sweet Deep Grapefruit both look like potential standouts but I won't know for sure until they've cured up and are ready for a real smoke. One of these Critical+ looks like a super fast and fat finisher, I'll give an update somewhere when the time comes.



Take care



.JPG

 

[City Twin]

Giver ‘er a go and let us know J.P.. I would shoot for a 30-31 F. max.

I don’t know for certain, but would think humidity in a household freezer would not be low enough to initiate sublimation. Something to look into.

 

[captaincaveman]

the freezer will just dry the fuck out of your buds man

 

[jus'plain'gill]

Giver ‘er a go and let us know J.P.. I would shoot for a 30-31 F. max.

I don’t know for certain, but would think humidity in a household freezer would not be low enough to initiate sublimation. Something to look into.

I'm def gonna give it a shot, I don't think I can mess it up too much and if it's just not working I can always lower the temp down to what I'm used to working with.

the freezer will just dry the fuck out of your buds man

Haha, thanks for this constructive criticism. I'm sorry you had a poor experience but if you decide to give it another try just drop me a line and I'll help you out however I can.



I've said it a couple times but it is def worth repeating:

...the freezer drying method is superior and more practical for my situation than is drying and curing in jars... I never had to monitor the conditions of or do anything to the bud drying in the freezer, it was in a constant pitch black darkness and an airtight environment to protect THC from degradation. The vacuum also keeps the smell in, NO ODOR EVER COMING FROM THE FREEZER. This method was pretty much "Set it and Forget it!"


.JPG

Take care,



.JPG

 

[Nicol Bolas]

I am more interested in the 31 degrees F freeze drying method that City Twin suggests to avoid forming ice crystals in the cell walls. Doesn't it screw up your smokability to have shredded cell walls? I have started using silica precisely because Crazy Composer said that stiff cell walls aided the stability of the cherry, leading to a more thorough smoke that gets you higher. Am I losing that benefit by letting ice crystals shred my bud?

 

[jus'plain'gill]

...Doesn't it screw up your smokability to have shredded cell walls?...

If ice is shredding the cell walls of the buds, I can tell you the smoke is still just as smooth as anyone would desire. I would assume, because smoking the freezer dried pot gives me the desired effect, that any ice that forms doesn't affect potency at all either. It isn't the buds that are getting you high anyway, it's the oils covering the buds that do that.



I have found, and so have many others, that freezer drying/curing is an excellent (and preferred) method. It is possible that freezer curing at 31F is as excellent method as well so if you decide to give it a try, please do come back and share your results. I'm pretty certain I'll do this if I can get my freezer cleaned out in time.


Take care,



.JPG

 

[smilley]

Good thread gill. My wife would shoot me if I started curing my bud in the freezer like you do. heh, heh I do believe its a good method though and I might give it a try out in the shed soon. Is -30C too cold?

 

[jus'plain'gill]

-30C? That sounds painfully cold, I'm shivering here in my 66f living room just thinking about it, brrrrrrr! But IDK if its too cold to freeze cure at, my gut tells me it should work fine if there is NO DISTURBANCE whatsoever of the buds. At that low of a temperature, I would imagine all trichomes are extremely brittle. What else do you store in this freezer? How often do you have to get into it, i.e. disturb the contents? I'd be very interested in how well freezer curing worked at such a low temperature though

How far are you from trying it out?



.JPG