Yes rode you are correct. It is killing microbes also. However you are working for a live soil, others aren’t. Some use fertilizers, which you ‘shouldn’t’ due to the salts. Living soil is amazing however, a lot of people don’t have the time/ energy to constantly tamper w the soil conditions. A lot easier for a lot of people to add some salts to water, shake and pour
-
As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.
Fiddynut's indoor jungle
- Thread starter Fiddynut
- Start date
Rodehazrd
Well-known member
True that Fishey although my motive for organic is not to have to tamper with it. I load up on rock powders and microbes and they work it out for themselves.
I'm not totally organic either I use some calcium nitrate in veg and a koolbloom foliar in early stretch but I rely on fish hydro and worm castings tea for the main input of nutes and no salts added to the soil that would damage my microherd. I am thinking more toward a no till style for some big tubs in the future. See if an intact soil food web with just top dressing will work better than breaking up and reamending and stirring the mix.
I know a guy a couple hours away that has been on the no till tip for a LONG time. He makes his own crosses and such. I’ve spent hours talking with him about his set up and how he works it. For months i could not believe all he does is put seeds in ground and water. I thought he just wasn’t getting off his trade secrets. Finally I tried calling him out on it. After a heated discussion, I was finally able to wrap my head around the fact his soil did all the work for him. He wasn’t the type to send out a soil sample for testing and I really wonder what he could have done had he gone all in. Sorry for long winded rant, but there is no dispute a well balanced soil is key.
glad to hear the party went well, fiddy!
im sure they were super tasty and enjoyed by all!
were a lot of people dressed up?
this year im seeing a lot of creative stuff with the people who dress up
you are right, guys, that you do loose microbes
but those are easily reintroduced back into the mix
i only do this to new soil
/to bring it into the house it needs to be clean, after that you can doctor it however you would like
when you grow indoors you have to adapt and fresh soil is the most common vector for pest
"...my motive for organic is not to have to tamper with it"
this all the way,rode
my goal is to be able to harvest healthy plants with a minimal extra effort
i def think less is more and when you find something that works for you, why mess with it?
hope everyone is having a rocking all hallows eve
went on a nice walk through the neighbor hood with the mrs and had a great time!
lots of cool costumes, too much candy and many free shots!
just wish tomorrow was a holiday from work
/happy halloween everyone!
im sure they were super tasty and enjoyed by all!
were a lot of people dressed up?
this year im seeing a lot of creative stuff with the people who dress up
you are right, guys, that you do loose microbes
but those are easily reintroduced back into the mix
i only do this to new soil
/to bring it into the house it needs to be clean, after that you can doctor it however you would like
when you grow indoors you have to adapt and fresh soil is the most common vector for pest
"...my motive for organic is not to have to tamper with it"
this all the way,rode
my goal is to be able to harvest healthy plants with a minimal extra effort
i def think less is more and when you find something that works for you, why mess with it?
hope everyone is having a rocking all hallows eve
went on a nice walk through the neighbor hood with the mrs and had a great time!
lots of cool costumes, too much candy and many free shots!
just wish tomorrow was a holiday from work
/happy halloween everyone!
Rodehazrd
Well-known member
Hey fishy
what kind of pots did he use? I use those 30s with a net pot in the bottom setting in another tub of water. I can be gone for 10 days without worry but when I finish a run and dump out my soil the bottom tub is full of roots that grew into the water. The idea of all those dead roots in the water down there well...
I put a layer of ground cloth in one with better success but not clean either. I can't lift the tub full of dirt either to clean under there. I may have to abandon this method and go with a rez and some blumat or such to do the no till.
what kind of pots did he use? I use those 30s with a net pot in the bottom setting in another tub of water. I can be gone for 10 days without worry but when I finish a run and dump out my soil the bottom tub is full of roots that grew into the water. The idea of all those dead roots in the water down there well...
I put a layer of ground cloth in one with better success but not clean either. I can't lift the tub full of dirt either to clean under there. I may have to abandon this method and go with a rez and some blumat or such to do the no till.
Fiddynut
Active member
True that Fishey although my motive for organic is not to have to tamper with it. I load up on rock powders and microbes and they work it out for themselves.
I'm not totally organic either I use some calcium nitrate in veg and a koolbloom foliar in early stretch but I rely on fish hydro and worm castings tea for the main input of nutes and no salts added to the soil that would damage my microherd. I am thinking more toward a no till style for some big tubs in the future. See if an intact soil food web with just top dressing will work better than breaking up and reamending and stirring the mix.
Good morning Rodehazrd.
I think keeping as many microbes and mycos ect. or adding them back in is the best way to keep your plants happy and keep your soil working. But if the bugs cause us to use pesticides and stuff that probably isn't good for the soil than maybe taking care of the bugs first is the best way to go. Teas, microbe brews and things like that can be used if you have to sterilize soil. Since diffrent regions have diffrent bugs it's all about how you deal with your specific conditions. I have learn d that the soil I get here has fungus gnats and larvae in it so I've learned how to use the mosquito dunks in my water to kill the larvae and stop them from breeding. The few adults that survive get caught in the sticky traps. After a few grows I know how to keep my common enemy at bay but I still worry about other bugs.
I think what keeps me from trying to build a living soil is 2 fold. First I don't have enough of an understanding of how it works and how to make it work. Second is my lazy streak that is a mile wide. I have a feeling that organic no till living soil is best for the plant that's what it evolved to grow in. But it's very intimidating to think that I'd have to experiment with all the amending and correcting of the soil. I'd be afrade to loose runs and time and waste all that electricity as I fail. I'd love to eventually learn how to build a water only soil and maybe I will someday. For me that might mean experimenting with living soil outside in the summer on tomatoes or something so that mistakes don't cost me yeild. Organic is probably best for soil and salt based synthetic nutes may be best for coco DWC ect. For me soil gives me a buffer so I can minimize my feeding errors while I learn how to read and react to the plants needs.
Good morning Badfishy.
I'm defenatly one of those who likes the convenience of bottled nutes. My ignorance of how to build a soil makes me intimidated to try it. I've seen threads where people have such good results with living soils and I can't help but be a bit envious of them. When done right the plants look so happy. There will probably come a day when I have to choose to get out of my comfort zone and try it or go the other way and try a hydro system of sorts. That's really cool about your buddy with the just add water soil. Did you ask him how long it took him to get his system dialed in? When he switches strains does he have to change his amendment?
Fiddynut
Active member
Good morning pop_rocks.
Yes party went well and all had good times. The fire was just enough to keep from getting too cold. Most of the guests were dressed up and we do a costume contest each year. My cousin won this year again she takes her costumes pretty seriously. She is a 4 time first place winner. We have first through third place trophies and prizes for adults and a couple prizes for kids, the kids all win something. As a host I don't vote as I want everyone to win and I'm neutral. You can tell who puts effort and thought into their costumes for sure.
That's great you guys got to get out for some tirck or treating, some of the neighbors have shots for the adults for trick or treat here it's a great idea. The wife and our niece went trick or treating last night and took Rufus and some people even had dog treats ready for him. From what I remember as a kid we always did trick or treat during the day everyone was worried about kids getting snatched or poisoned back in the late 70's and early 80's. We use to hear stories about our parients going trick or treating after dark and were envious of them.
How is schmoopy doing? Did you guys get a chance to harvest her over the weekend? Any luck popping beans for your next run?
Fiddynut
Active member
Just some thoughts
Just some thoughts
Greetings friends.
I had a thought and I'd love some opinions on this from the tribe. I think I have time to take cuts from the clones I have of the c91jbXsl that I'm flowering now. If I do this I can grow them out for the next run instead of popping seeds for it and waiting to see how many girls I get. It seems that I had roots in a week and it took them another week to adjust to soil and start growing. So two weeks to start growing and then how long to wait until I put them into flower. Since I've always grown from seed I don't know how long to veg a clone for. I'm guessing I'd shoot for letting them get to a hight where they could go through stretch and still not over grow my tent hight. I've noticed that the first round of cuts that I put in soil a couple weeks ago are just about the size of the seed plants when I'm rushing to sex and flower them. This would also allow me to pop seeds for a future run and wait to sex them and then take cuts of them to flower out instead of flowering out the seed plants.
Do you guys think this is a good strategy?
How long do you veg clones?
Do clones stretch like seed plants or is it more strain dependent?
Thanks for your opinions on this. I've been slacking on the updates and will get some pics and an update done in the next day. Buds are looking great but I still have some leaf loss and yellowing on the plants in flower. I don't think I had enough N to get them through the stretch and gave them a little higher dose of nutes last feeding allong with mixing some higher N grow nutes in. I know too much N isn't good but they really looked like they wanted it. Note to self: give PBP grow first couple weeks of stretch next run so they don't run out of N.
Just some thoughts
Greetings friends.
I had a thought and I'd love some opinions on this from the tribe. I think I have time to take cuts from the clones I have of the c91jbXsl that I'm flowering now. If I do this I can grow them out for the next run instead of popping seeds for it and waiting to see how many girls I get. It seems that I had roots in a week and it took them another week to adjust to soil and start growing. So two weeks to start growing and then how long to wait until I put them into flower. Since I've always grown from seed I don't know how long to veg a clone for. I'm guessing I'd shoot for letting them get to a hight where they could go through stretch and still not over grow my tent hight. I've noticed that the first round of cuts that I put in soil a couple weeks ago are just about the size of the seed plants when I'm rushing to sex and flower them. This would also allow me to pop seeds for a future run and wait to sex them and then take cuts of them to flower out instead of flowering out the seed plants.
Do you guys think this is a good strategy?
How long do you veg clones?
Do clones stretch like seed plants or is it more strain dependent?
Thanks for your opinions on this. I've been slacking on the updates and will get some pics and an update done in the next day. Buds are looking great but I still have some leaf loss and yellowing on the plants in flower. I don't think I had enough N to get them through the stretch and gave them a little higher dose of nutes last feeding allong with mixing some higher N grow nutes in. I know too much N isn't good but they really looked like they wanted it. Note to self: give PBP grow first couple weeks of stretch next run so they don't run out of N.
Fiddy I think this is packer fan territory. I think he runs clones from mothers and would be the one to ask. I need to step up my clone game -.-
Fiddynut
Active member
Let me know how it goes. I'm lazy and intimidated but still interested in learning how to grow beautiful plants without bottles of stuff. That said I can't seem to keep my plants completely happy even with the bottles and stuff so I have a long way to go as a grower before I can even think about building a 'perfect' soil.
Thanks for your input. It might be something I just have to try and see how it works. I'm just realizing that I have time to get cuts rooted and I think vegged too so I think I'm going for it. Downside is lack of variety but I have a couple phenos here so maybe not so bad.
Rodehazrd
Well-known member
Fiddy
those clones will surly be slower than the hybrid vigor of seeds. I found all strains and pheno's to be different. A 4 inch cut of headband made a 14 inch bush in 6 weeks for me.
Odd thing the clone finishes faster than the seed.
On that no till soil I think its a matter of top dressing with WC and other goodies like teas. The soil food web remaining intact is good science but i will still bump it up with a drench. I think a blend of both microbes and fertigation is going to be my path. I read one post where the dude top dressed with guano and peeled it off after harvest due to K buildup
those clones will surly be slower than the hybrid vigor of seeds. I found all strains and pheno's to be different. A 4 inch cut of headband made a 14 inch bush in 6 weeks for me.
Odd thing the clone finishes faster than the seed.
On that no till soil I think its a matter of top dressing with WC and other goodies like teas. The soil food web remaining intact is good science but i will still bump it up with a drench. I think a blend of both microbes and fertigation is going to be my path. I read one post where the dude top dressed with guano and peeled it off after harvest due to K buildup
Big thing with building soil is the cook time. A lot of things take months to break down to usable elements. I have listened to coots multiple times and he seems to be a neem junky. Always talking about how much neem meal he uses. He also pushes kelp hard. He DOES say source of kelp is important tho. Coots is a madman almost a contrarian lol. But swears by it. I think it was microbeman (could be wrong tho) talking about his EWC. If I recall correctly he basically uses horse manure and neem. The interesting part to me was he was saying even after all the ‘food’ for the worms was gone that they basically continued breaking down the castings into supercastings (wasn’t the term he used, but I’m too burned to bother listening again atm). He swears by this method. Now all that said I’m sure you could talk to 100 different people and get 100 different responses as to what ‘best’ method is.
I’m just a basic bitch when it comes to ferts. I use jacks 10-30-20 at a 1/4 teaspoon/ gal (thanks dtog) and have seen nice results. I do use it every watering
Edit: under NO circumstances take my lead in any of this. For fuck sake I can’t even get fucking PM under control so maybe take everything I just said and do the opposite
‘Odd thing’- in no way am I trying to correct you, however I’m almost positive a clone is considered to be a mature plant. Hence the faster finish (?)
Rodehazrd
Well-known member
Not so odd when you think of it that way eh?
Fiddynut
Active member
Good morning Rodehazrd.
Thanks for sharing your experience with your headband clones. I have a couple additional questions on them.
Was it 6 weeks total to root and veg or just veg time?
Did you use rooting gel on the cuts you took?
Did the headband seem to be a slow to root or grow strain compared to others you have grown?
Your defenatly on the right path with your soil and growing style. Making little tweaks and keeping good notes should be the key to getting it dialed in for sure. Your hard work and research will pay off. Thanks a lot for your opinion and experience.
Haha don't worry fishy, if I do something stupid while experimenting and kill my plants I won't say 'but Badfishy said...'. Cooking soil is also something I've pondered how I'd get away with. It's too cold to do it outside for half the year here and I don't have a lot of extra space indoors. I think I've come across posts and threads by coots and microbeman. Lots of great knowledge ther. You are right that there is no absolute right or wrong with growing only what works in your grow.
I have heard a lot of people mention jacks ferts and maybe I'll give them a try sometime.
Hey Fiddynuts, sorry haven't been ignoring your questions, been crazy busy, I will try to give a little while to help you out tonight.
Fiddynut
Active member
Update and pics.
Update and pics.
Greetings tribe.
I'm overdue on an update so here goes. On the last update I mentioned that I was getting some yellowing of the lower fans on the girls in flower at week 3. I've fed a couple times since then and mixed veg nutes with the bloom nutes I've been using and I've increased the feed by 33% @ a total of 40 ml PBP (20 grow and 20 bloom) per 3 gallons of water. I think I've stopped the yellowing from moving up the plant for now. From now on I'm going to give a little more nutes and more veg nutes during the stretch. I know too much nitro during flower isn't good but these girls needed more to get through that aggressive growth period the first few weeks. I also think it's the lack of light at the bottom of the plants has something to do with the yellowing.
Here is a couple shots of the ugly leaves.
And now for the tops! The tops of the plants continued to look great and are really stacking buds. I think today is day 28ish of bloom and they are developing really well. Lots of skunk and fuel scent when I open the tent. The plants got bigger than I had wanted but seem to just fit into the tent and are just short enough to not be too close to the light. The tallest tops are moved off to the side and would be too tall if directly under the light. To me these lady's are looking beautiful.
Here is a couple shots of them.
And now for the clones! The clones are doing great. Clones were cut from flowering plants about a week after flip to 12/12 and first set went into dirt 10 days later and the other set went into soil a week after that. Since they rooted and went into soil they have been growing really well. In fact they seem to be growing with as much vigor as most of the plants I've grown from seed.
Update and pics.
Greetings tribe.
I'm overdue on an update so here goes. On the last update I mentioned that I was getting some yellowing of the lower fans on the girls in flower at week 3. I've fed a couple times since then and mixed veg nutes with the bloom nutes I've been using and I've increased the feed by 33% @ a total of 40 ml PBP (20 grow and 20 bloom) per 3 gallons of water. I think I've stopped the yellowing from moving up the plant for now. From now on I'm going to give a little more nutes and more veg nutes during the stretch. I know too much nitro during flower isn't good but these girls needed more to get through that aggressive growth period the first few weeks. I also think it's the lack of light at the bottom of the plants has something to do with the yellowing.
Here is a couple shots of the ugly leaves.
And now for the tops! The tops of the plants continued to look great and are really stacking buds. I think today is day 28ish of bloom and they are developing really well. Lots of skunk and fuel scent when I open the tent. The plants got bigger than I had wanted but seem to just fit into the tent and are just short enough to not be too close to the light. The tallest tops are moved off to the side and would be too tall if directly under the light. To me these lady's are looking beautiful.
Here is a couple shots of them.
And now for the clones! The clones are doing great. Clones were cut from flowering plants about a week after flip to 12/12 and first set went into dirt 10 days later and the other set went into soil a week after that. Since they rooted and went into soil they have been growing really well. In fact they seem to be growing with as much vigor as most of the plants I've grown from seed.
