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Fan leaf Question
- Thread starter dirtybudz
- Start date
G
Guest
These look to be hungry to me. 1.36ml of PBPB seems extremely low per gallon, considering most seem to run 10-15ml's per gallon. What's the EC/TDS and pH?
I'd recommend up'ing your nutes since 1.3ml's per gal is close to a seedling level.... and also make sure you're pH is inline.
Remember in flower these things need to feed much more than in veg.
Good luck!
I'd recommend up'ing your nutes since 1.3ml's per gal is close to a seedling level.... and also make sure you're pH is inline.
Remember in flower these things need to feed much more than in veg.
Good luck!
B
Brother_Monk
^^^Yeah...good call^^^ The natural tendancy would to feed less with a sativa(what you showed looks like a mostly sativa). As your leaf picture shows yellowing and necrosis beginning....I would lean towards more food as well. They need much more food in flower than in veg...depending on strain of course. I would up to 10ml/gal. If they respond positively, up to full strength. Hard to burn with that stuff...it's derived from mostly organics.
Blackvelvet
Member
Its a typo. It should read 11.36 ml pbp hydro bloom + 3.86 ml cal mag plus per gallon of water. It's my recipe. 
n 100
p 27
k 131
ca 66
mg 28
I am not sure what the problem your having is.
Is it the start of magnesium deficiency? Add 1/8 teaspoon epsom salts per 3 gallons. You might want to do this anyway to get 4:2:1 potassium to calcium to magnesium. This would raise mg from 28 to 33. Not really alot.
If its the start of nitrogen defiency, raise the strength of both pbp and cal mag plus. Try 125 ppm nitrogen. 14.2ml pbp bloom hydro + 4.83 cal mag plus. You may want to experiment and do this anyway. The original recipe is very weak.
n 125
p 34
k 164
ca 83
mg 35
You can still add 1/8 teaspoon per 3 gallons to raise mg from 35 to 40 and be closer to 2:1 calcium to magnesium. These bitches are mag hungry.
Is it phosphorus stress? I posted a way to use pk 13/14 in your other thread "hardwater problem" in the hydro section. 27 p is quite low. This is a reason hydro growers actually use the pbp for soil instead in hydro because it has quite a bit more p.
I doubt a potassium problem with 131 ppm.
It's important to not make a big change in the nutrient solution. Gently raise or lower strength and add or subtract elements like mg in small increments. The nutrient solution is close to being balanced as is.
Are they starting to bloom after 3 weeks 12/12?
n 100
p 27
k 131
ca 66
mg 28
I am not sure what the problem your having is.
Is it the start of magnesium deficiency? Add 1/8 teaspoon epsom salts per 3 gallons. You might want to do this anyway to get 4:2:1 potassium to calcium to magnesium. This would raise mg from 28 to 33. Not really alot.
If its the start of nitrogen defiency, raise the strength of both pbp and cal mag plus. Try 125 ppm nitrogen. 14.2ml pbp bloom hydro + 4.83 cal mag plus. You may want to experiment and do this anyway. The original recipe is very weak.
n 125
p 34
k 164
ca 83
mg 35
You can still add 1/8 teaspoon per 3 gallons to raise mg from 35 to 40 and be closer to 2:1 calcium to magnesium. These bitches are mag hungry.
Is it phosphorus stress? I posted a way to use pk 13/14 in your other thread "hardwater problem" in the hydro section. 27 p is quite low. This is a reason hydro growers actually use the pbp for soil instead in hydro because it has quite a bit more p.
I doubt a potassium problem with 131 ppm.
It's important to not make a big change in the nutrient solution. Gently raise or lower strength and add or subtract elements like mg in small increments. The nutrient solution is close to being balanced as is.
Are they starting to bloom after 3 weeks 12/12?
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Blackvelvet
Member
DurbanPoison said:
I try to give ya'll good recipes. We'll fix your plants Dirtybudz
Im guessing by your other post you switched from a grow fert formula to a bloom fert formula when you flipped your lights instead of running a combo grow+bloom fert formula for the first few weeks of flowering because not doing that will usually end up with nitrogen starved plants a few weeks into flowering?
Prime example of why math doesnt grow plants.
Prime example of why math doesnt grow plants.
Thanks to all you guys. This is what I'm talkin' about, lots of contribution. This is especially good for a newb hydro grower (first time). I did dillute and cross bloom and grow for a week, but probably should have went longer as I do in soil.
Sorry for the typo, yes I'm using BV's recipe for these sativaX. and it is producing good results so far and yes she is blooming BV.
The faded fans are more purple hued today. Not sure If I read Stich's thread right along time ago indicating a P def, so I'll have to check.
Also, I have not been topping off with RO/DI only, I have been mixing to the recipe and topping with an extra gallon each a week to hold them over till I change out (also about once a week). Is this bad?
Sorry for the typo, yes I'm using BV's recipe for these sativaX. and it is producing good results so far and yes she is blooming BV.
The faded fans are more purple hued today. Not sure If I read Stich's thread right along time ago indicating a P def, so I'll have to check.
Also, I have not been topping off with RO/DI only, I have been mixing to the recipe and topping with an extra gallon each a week to hold them over till I change out (also about once a week). Is this bad?
S
strain_searcher
looks like too much P to me. I did that to a plant once with too much bonemeal. Turned light yellow and got brown spots all over.
Blackvelvet
Member
What would be ideal would be to test ec or ppms of the nutrient solution at the beginning and when you top off, you know how strong to add nutes to return the solution to the original strength. Pro growers don't add micros in the top off water...probably just n and k since this is what plants use the most of. As a general rule of thumb, the top off water should be 1/4 to 1/3 the original strength. I think you will be fine no matter what you do...water or weak ferts top off.
Try the new recipe in my previous post to get 125 ppm n. Also, add that little bit of epsom.
Are you still adding gh ph down? If its phosphoric acid that might be a good way to up your somewhat low p.
Your plants look great!
.
Try the new recipe in my previous post to get 125 ppm n. Also, add that little bit of epsom.
Are you still adding gh ph down? If its phosphoric acid that might be a good way to up your somewhat low p.
Your plants look great!
.
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Suspecting deficiency, I had went ahead and topped with full strength of the new recipe, but only a gallon to each bucket. I'll be changing out completely tomorrow to meet a weekly change out schedule. I have been doing this in lieu of guessing ppms without the ec meter.
The RO drinking water used to mix was purchased and by itself is at a pH of <5 which I thought unusual. After mixing the nutes/ hydroguard and a tad of H2O2, I add 1ml of GH pH up to get in the 5.8-6.0 range (colorimetric so I'm only guessing). After changeout I have been pHing the remaining "used" solution and its usually around 6.5-7.0. More pics at 4wks 12/12 (28days) unless something happens sooner.
I'm getting an RO setup installed soon as I have a bud in the business.
The RO drinking water used to mix was purchased and by itself is at a pH of <5 which I thought unusual. After mixing the nutes/ hydroguard and a tad of H2O2, I add 1ml of GH pH up to get in the 5.8-6.0 range (colorimetric so I'm only guessing). After changeout I have been pHing the remaining "used" solution and its usually around 6.5-7.0. More pics at 4wks 12/12 (28days) unless something happens sooner.
I'm getting an RO setup installed soon as I have a bud in the business.
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G
Guest
Wooo wooo wooo.... 6.5-7.0??? I hope that's a typo too.
Your pH needs to be 5.8-6.0. It can drift within those limits but outside of em and def's start.
Try doing this - when you remix your nutes do NOT add so much pH up. Just put the plant back in the rez and let it sit for 24hrs under normal lighting. THEN check your pH and adjust as needed.
My gut is telling me you are pushing the pH up too hard and when the plant begins to feed the buffers in your nutes are being removed, thus forcing your pH up higher than ya want.
Make sense?
Your pH needs to be 5.8-6.0. It can drift within those limits but outside of em and def's start.
Try doing this - when you remix your nutes do NOT add so much pH up. Just put the plant back in the rez and let it sit for 24hrs under normal lighting. THEN check your pH and adjust as needed.
My gut is telling me you are pushing the pH up too hard and when the plant begins to feed the buffers in your nutes are being removed, thus forcing your pH up higher than ya want.
Make sense?
Yeah completely. I could have probably deduced this if I had a digi meter I cuold check with periodically. With colorimetrics I can only determine differences of about .5 and thats just using an experienced eye and chemistry bacakground. Plus these ladies are big making popping the top to add up/down tricky. At this stage of root mass the airstone dosn't provide enough mixing action to mix in up/down without localized damage potential. Any ideas there?
I'll shoot for a lower starting # when I change out today.
I think the stronger solution I'm swithching too will help this shift somewhat.
The upper fans most exposed to direct light are definitely showing some chlorosis. They are now pale yellow-green with a "airbrushing" of lavender down the center body of the leaf. If it has progressed more I will up a photo.
Also, it is important to note that the clone that is less bushy (not topped) is thinner branch wise and is not yet exhibiting this condition. I will be better able to control size next go.
I'll shoot for a lower starting # when I change out today.
I think the stronger solution I'm swithching too will help this shift somewhat.
The upper fans most exposed to direct light are definitely showing some chlorosis. They are now pale yellow-green with a "airbrushing" of lavender down the center body of the leaf. If it has progressed more I will up a photo.
Also, it is important to note that the clone that is less bushy (not topped) is thinner branch wise and is not yet exhibiting this condition. I will be better able to control size next go.
Blackvelvet
Member
I think increasing the strength is going to take care of this.
You can compare the new strength to what Grow Green uses. Its identical. Note: the numbers in this sticky are way off. Lucas made a terrible math error. The numbers above are right.
....raise the strength of both pbp and cal mag plus. Try 125 ppm nitrogen. 14.2ml pbp bloom hydro + 4.83 cal mag plus. You may want to experiment and do this anyway. The original recipe is very weak.
n 125
p 34
k 164
ca 83
mg 35
You can still add 1/8 teaspoon [epsom] per 3 gallons to raise mg from 35 to 40 and be closer to 2:1 calcium to magnesium. These bitches are mag hungry.
You can compare the new strength to what Grow Green uses. Its identical. Note: the numbers in this sticky are way off. Lucas made a terrible math error. The numbers above are right.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21119&page=1
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24 hrs after solution change out, pH was ~6.0. Color of fans including adjacent buds are still paling and turning purple. Hairs are beggining to yellow as if we were approaching ripening, but we are only at 4 weeks 12/12 and this is unusual for this strain. They have also stopped fattening.
Despite the upped nutes, I'm curious why PBP bloom prescribes on the bottle 30ml+ during flower as opposed to our calculated 14.2. What ppm would that yield? Double? I really want to turn this around. I'll get pics up tommorow if I have time.
Despite the upped nutes, I'm curious why PBP bloom prescribes on the bottle 30ml+ during flower as opposed to our calculated 14.2. What ppm would that yield? Double? I really want to turn this around. I'll get pics up tommorow if I have time.
Blackvelvet
Member
The recipe is ok.
Stray thoughts...Has to be a problem with controling your ph maybe. Have you calibrated the ph meter lately? Are you shaking the bottles before pouring? How old are the ferts? I think pbp can go bad. What's the roots doing? Are they white or brown again? Are you adding the h2o2 still? What are the temperatures day and night for both the plants and rez?
Purple color in the fan leaves usually means phosphorus problems. 30 ppm phosphorus is somewhat on the low side although you should not be seeing problems. Here is what I posted in your other thread:
Do post some pictures in good light not under a hps for example so we can all see exactly what is happening.
.
Stray thoughts...Has to be a problem with controling your ph maybe. Have you calibrated the ph meter lately? Are you shaking the bottles before pouring? How old are the ferts? I think pbp can go bad. What's the roots doing? Are they white or brown again? Are you adding the h2o2 still? What are the temperatures day and night for both the plants and rez?
Purple color in the fan leaves usually means phosphorus problems. 30 ppm phosphorus is somewhat on the low side although you should not be seeing problems. Here is what I posted in your other thread:
If you used 30 ml pbp per gallon your ppms would double. You would also double your cal mag plus. I do not suggest doing this!!!
Do post some pictures in good light not under a hps for example so we can all see exactly what is happening.
.
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Purple Fans
Purple Fans
Nutes are new, <3 months.
Res has'nt been more than 72 max and is usually around 68 (ambient).
All bottles shaken before mixing including pH up.
I am using a colorimetric solution (GH) I intend to pick up a pH/ec combo.
yes H2O2 at 1 tsp/gal at change out and top off.
Photos used fill flash to cut the HPS.
As you can see, the one on the right, the thinner clone is not as severe as the bushier, larger plant on the left.
Roots in solution are white and solution has been clear at change out. roots above are slightly brown due to being out of solution.
Purple Fans
Nutes are new, <3 months.
Res has'nt been more than 72 max and is usually around 68 (ambient).
All bottles shaken before mixing including pH up.
I am using a colorimetric solution (GH) I intend to pick up a pH/ec combo.
yes H2O2 at 1 tsp/gal at change out and top off.
Photos used fill flash to cut the HPS.
As you can see, the one on the right, the thinner clone is not as severe as the bushier, larger plant on the left.
Roots in solution are white and solution has been clear at change out. roots above are slightly brown due to being out of solution.
Blackvelvet
Member
What temperatures are plants exposed to day and night? (you said rez around 68f which is good) Did you add the small amount of epsom salts with the new slightly stronger solution?
Came up with another idea to increase your phosphorus...
Stop using cal mag plus, switch to non nitrogen containing epsom salts + powdered gypsum, and increase pbp bloom.
17.9 ml pbp bloom for hydro per 1 gallon
5/8 teaspoon powdered gypsum and epsom salts per 3 gallons (your rez size)
Powdered gypsum can be hard to disolve. You should be able to get it at a garden center but better is a brew your own beer/wine store (more easy to disolve). Organic traditions gypsum will not disolve. If you can find calcium chloride sold in bottles under names like tomato blossom end rot stopper you could use that instead of gypsum. It will take the % ca and net weight of the bottle to give you a rate. You should be able to get it at a garden center. Call around. It also comes in granules.
Approximate ppms of this idea...
n 125
p 43
k 207
ca 100
mg 50
Came up with another idea to increase your phosphorus...
Stop using cal mag plus, switch to non nitrogen containing epsom salts + powdered gypsum, and increase pbp bloom.
17.9 ml pbp bloom for hydro per 1 gallon
5/8 teaspoon powdered gypsum and epsom salts per 3 gallons (your rez size)
Powdered gypsum can be hard to disolve. You should be able to get it at a garden center but better is a brew your own beer/wine store (more easy to disolve). Organic traditions gypsum will not disolve. If you can find calcium chloride sold in bottles under names like tomato blossom end rot stopper you could use that instead of gypsum. It will take the % ca and net weight of the bottle to give you a rate. You should be able to get it at a garden center. Call around. It also comes in granules.
Approximate ppms of this idea...
n 125
p 43
k 207
ca 100
mg 50
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Greenlight Blossom End Rot Spray just happens to be in my cabinet...
One pint (473ml)
Ca 8.6%
Cl not more than 16.23%
And I have Epsom as well.
This shit is weird. I'm going to reset my timer as it seems like they are being forced to finish...almost like they are getting less than 12/12. I'm not sure I can reverse this one
One pint (473ml)
Ca 8.6%
Cl not more than 16.23%
And I have Epsom as well.
This shit is weird. I'm going to reset my timer as it seems like they are being forced to finish...almost like they are getting less than 12/12. I'm not sure I can reverse this one
