Fan leaf Question

[Blackvelvet]

Dump the rez

Dump the rez

17.9 ml pbp bloom + 1/2 teaspoon green light per 1 gallon
5/8 teaspoon epsom salts per 3 gallons

I think you are low in sulfur. This should fix that too.

Shake bottles before using.

If they start burning bad on tips, abort! abort! This is strong. :smile:

Mail me a bud when your done to:

Mr. Blackvelvet
P.O. Box 10,000
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings dirtybudz

Yes...the pH is high.

Yes...there is improper Potassium uptake.

Yes...there is improper Nitrogen assimilation.

Yes...there is an insufficient amount of Phosphorus.

Yes...you are utilizing an organically derived fertilizer with a hydroponics method of cultivation.

Yes...you further compound the problem by routinely decimating whatever beneficial micro-organisms may be in your system (with the application of Hydrogen Peroxide).

Yes...if you employ a more suitable (for your specific application) fertilizer, you will remedy your problem(s).

Yes...if you are unwilling to substitute: you aerate the current fertilizer before use, discontinue utilization of the Hydrogen Peroxide and ensure the incorporation of adequate and appropriate surface areas for the establishment of strong colonies of aerobic beneficials- you will remedy your problem(s).

Sincerely,
Charles.

 

[dirtybudz]

Thanks Charles. I appreciate your input. I like when more people are active in positive discussion, as that's how we all learn and get better.
I agree with the H2O2, and confess that after it's initial use, it became a bad habit.
As for future DWC, what ferts/additives do you recommend?
And what do you mean by:

ensure the incorporation of adequate and appropriate surface areas for the establishment of strong colonies of aerobic beneficials

Solution level etc?

BV: Just to clarify, 5/8 tsp epsom / 3 gallons?

General note:
I utilize BV's advise because for one, he has provided me with much useful/successful information in the past that has led to nice yields, but two more importantly, he is pretty much the only one that has offered specific remediation as opposed to more general fixes and as I get down to the wire, I really need to tweak this back to health before it's too late! In the future, I'd love to hear suggestions for success in to DWC. I used Botanicare as there rep is solid and they DO make a quality product, but I'm always open for suggestions!!

Thanks Y'all!!

Oh! EDIT: The timer was not messed up, it's spot on for 12/12.

 

[Blackvelvet]

5/8 teaspoon epsom in 3 gallons; not just 1 gallon;you can round it off to 1/2 teaspoon if desired which would give you 45 ppm magnesium instead of 50 total

17.9 ml pbp bloom in 1 gallon

2.5 ml (1/2 teaspoon) greenlight calcium chloride in 1 gallon

This will give you 60% more phosphorus compared to the original recipe

Don't stop adding h2o2.

What are the lights on and off plant temps?

By the way, that was Mickey mouses address at Disney World

.

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings dirtybudz

You are entirely welcomed. I shall restrict my response to the contents of your above post.

Hydrogen Peroxide in a hydroponics system is of benefit only if the fertilizer used is chemical derived. Hydrogen Peroxide is indiscriminant; it will eliminate all micro-organisms within the system (pathogenic and beneficial). When employing an organic derived fertilizer, it is the beneficials in the system that convert nutrients into plant available forms. Disestablished beneficial colonies translate to low nutrient availability which concludes in poor plant performance.

Furthermore, concerning 'organics in hydroponics'...in a deep water culture application, there simply isn't enough suitable surface area to establish adequate beneficial colonies in order to sustain the nutrient needs of a moderately large plant.

The intersection of these two points is the foundation of your troubles.

For deep water culture any of the popular commercially available, chemical based fertilizers will suffice. Examples- One-part: General Hydroponics' FloraNova series. Two-part: Advanced Nutrients' Sensi series. Three-part: General Hydroponics' Flora series.
By recommending the establishment of strong beneficial colonies, I am endorsing the conversion of the deep water system into the 'bio-bucket' system or the implementation of a remote shallow reservoir containing appropriate substrate/medium to create an aerated fluidized bed.

The addition of Epsom salts will not address the underlying concern.

In regards to your general note: If an individual possesses positive intent and displays a degree of familiarity and/or interest in a particular subject, then it is quite difficult for that individual to be wrong in every assertion made on said subject. However, being right in the past is no guarantee on the correctness of future postulations.

What you are being offered is not specific remediation, instead it is speculation based on scant familiarity with the subject material. Now, this in itself is not necessarily appalling...what is of great detriment, however, is if this practice is conjoined with a bruised ego.

The steadfast refusal to admit when you are in proven error or to concede that some other individual may be more knowledgeable than you are is a character flaw that tempers any advice given into brittleness.

The directly preceding statements should not be construed as a personal attack. I can assure you that it is not. For further insight on my perspective in this particular matter...you can peruse this thread (it adequately clarifies my position):

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=54148

Oft times the "general fixes" are the ones of greater significance. Please indulge this bluntness without taking undue offense: you can spend your time trying to fit a square peg into a round hole (in this case 'tweaking') or you can match your peg to the appropriate hole. Indeed, Botanicare formulates a quality product...simply not well suited for your current application.

Sincerely,
Charles.

p.s. Of course, the photoperiod is not "messed up"...the system is.

p.p.s. The above post was an attempt to be straightforward so as not to court the usual back and forth pedantics. The post is not intended to be harsh or condescending. I limited my response to your post because I am speaking directly to you; this should be noted if any other party is offended by the content. If you are offended...then I apologize and will withdraw my statements.

C.X.

 

[dirtybudz]

BV, CX,

Thanks guys. An experienced outdoor grower from out of town reminded me that the mom these ladies came from was several gens old and the two clones that were taken were a remedial attempt at saving a strain. Yields had gotten quicker/smaller during successive grows. The product on these is small but dense and looks and smells terrific so it won't be a total loss.

I will attempt a grow using flora nova next as it is available. I will be starting a mangoX DWC in the same setup as these ladies until the new location is complete.

I would be interested in dosage amounts for using flora nova with RO in DWC at around 3 gallons per bucket.

Will continue to post this grow here and will link to the new in Hydro indoors when it starts.

Thanks again all for your help.

 

[dirtybudz]

Flora Nova

Flora Nova

Found this in the calc nutes thread sticky:

8[ml/gal] Flora Nova grow. Flora Nova is the one bottle solution to nutrients, note this mix is almost identical to Canna Aqua Vega, and GrowGreen's Nute Recipe
n 217
p 54
k 257
Mg 46

8[ml/gal] fnBloom
n 124
p 108
k 180
Mg 62

Will this work for DWC with RO? The red text I am assuming based on the recipes above this one in that thread.

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings dirtybudz

Will this work for DWC with RO?...dirtybudz

Short answer: Yes.

(Start with 5ml/gal and gradually increase concentration to 10ml/gal being certain to observe plants for any display of stress.)

If your tap water is not demonstrably unsuitable, utilize that rather than reverse osmosis filtered water.

Sincerely,
Charles.

 

[dirtybudz]

Tap Water (municipal supply)

Nitrate...................0.490 mg/l

Hardness(CaCO3).....256.5/15 gr. mg/l

Sodium...................50 mg/l

Flouride...................0.027 mg/l

Chloride...................32 mg/l

Sulfate....................23 mg/l

Alkalinity..................140 mg/l

pH is close to neutral but doesn't adjust well.

Which would you use?

Update: at 5 weeks trichomes have developed and mushroomed very nicely on the existing flowers. They smell fantastic as usual, but sadly they are on the small side. These normally need at least 7 weeks.

The large plant got BV's Tweak and the other smaller got full bottle strength and both have showed signs of improvement in a reduction of purple back to pale yellow in places. They were recently topped with plain RO.

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings dirtybudz

Which would you use?...dirtybudz

Definitely reverse osmosis filtered water.

Sincerely,
Charles.

p.s. Consider utilizing an unadulterated humates source (in conjunction with the FloraNova) to increase pH stabilization and nutrient uptake (examples: General Hydroponics' Diamond Nectar; Advanced Nutrients' Grandma Enggy’s Fulvic and Humic Acids; Dry Flower Product's Liquid Gold Fulvic and Liquid Black Crystal).

p.p.s. 'The update'...a great many threads in 'the infirmary' lack this crucial element which provides evidence of solutions that proved positive and to what extent. Your conscientiousness should be well noted. Kudos.

C.X.

 

[dirtybudz]

The RO I purchase has a peculiar pH of about 4.0 if tested out of the bottle. Out of coincidence when topping off, I tested the pH of a vented jug after several days and it had risen to ~6. Redox Rx? Interesting can't wait for my meter.

Update:
BV's adjustments with subsequent top off w/ RO mid week is really reverting the deficiency, only I fear we discovered this too late in conjunction with tired genetics. Hooray for new blood! I will post flower pics soon....

 

[Blackvelvet]

Did you install the new solution with calcium chloride and epsom salts?

 

[dirtybudz]

5/8 teaspoon epsom in 3 gallons; not just 1 gallon;you can round it off to 1/2 teaspoon if desired which would give you 45 ppm magnesium instead of 50 total

17.9 ml pbp bloom in 1 gallon

2.5 ml (1/2 teaspoon) greenlight calcium chloride in 1 gallon

This will give you 60% more phosphorus compared to the original recipe

This did the trick within 3 days, most of the purple has dissapeared to dark green and so has the yellowing on those fans that were not already to far gone.

The second that got full strength nutes from the bottle directions had continued south as expected.

Both have now been switched to FN at ~8ml/gallon and they are continuing to improve. I will definitely try the PBP recipe again during flower to see if it will perform properly without the interuption faced this time around.

NOTE: Is FN supposed to be THAT thick? I had to pour it out after shaking vigorously and use a measuring spoon and keep rinsing. And man is the solution dark! it looks like black tea mixed in 3 gallons of solution!

Pics up soon I promise!

 

[dirtybudz]

6WKS 12/12

6WKS 12/12

Alright, after stabilizing with BV's last bloom recipe which I would definitely recommend if using PBP in DWC, they were switched to Flora Nova at 8ml/gal. The pics were taken about 3 days after the latter.







I have been topping with pH'd RO and will probably do a complete switch to plain RO mid week. I don't see these girls doing much more as most trichomes are mushroomed and very opaque though still creamy and not yet amber. Perhaps there will be some last week swell.
Should I drag the flush on longer than 7wks or harvest and start the next show, ( a MangoX)?

 

[dirtybudz]

7WKS 12/12

7WKS 12/12

Tops now seem more developed but not much. The lower tiers are still pale in color from initial lack of light penetration.

Would harvesting the tops first help this?

 

[Blackvelvet]

You can harvest the tops and let the bottom nuggets go a while longer.

 

[dirtybudz]

Harvest Help

Harvest Help

OK. Some background. This pheno is a mostly sativa, indica & rudy mix. In soil I would flush at about week 7 and harvest at 8. This being my first hydro go round, and the cuttings from a stressed mom, coupled with my inexperience in hydro nutes etc. has brought me to where I am now.

Trichomes are fully mushroomed and milky, the green varies from dark to pale at the bottom (as above).

I guess what I'm asking is, if you were me and they looked like these below, would you harvest now? (they have been getting topped with RO and or Spring water for about 1.5wks.













Sorry about the blurry sides, the camera didnt like the dark.

 

[Blackvelvet]

When pistils forming have slowed down compared to pistils turning red and getting older, wait a few more weeks.

I always harvest too soon.

 

[dirtybudz]

Trichomes seem to be staying slightly opaque white, no new pistils have formed, and the lowers are finally starting to red up. Still I was hoping to push for a little more couch lock. My next ladies are VERY impatient to get into bigger digs. They are loving the FN nutes. Even though they are only in a gallon of water thats pretty warm, I think the O2 goin in is keeping up with the small space.

They are in a plastic shoe box covered with Black tape. The top has two holes with closed cell foam to support the clones. The aeration is from a 10" bubble wand. the space is no deeper than 4". The roots are starting to become entwined and I have to detangle them frequently!! These were the girls that had to be finished in no S!@# 5 weeks(nanners) in soil and yielded an ounce per small plant and smelled and tasted fantastic. If i had the nutes dialed in it would have been even better. The only prob is they throw alot of nanners at the very end that have to be plucked for appeal or if let go produced shitty sterile or false seeds. Outdoors they make big DD colas with ripe seeds.

I will start a fresh thread in the indoor hydro section soon.

EDIT: this is going to be a filler crop while I learn more about hydro. Meanwhile I have two White Widows sprouted and ready to veg.

 

[sativalicious]

Hi,

I just finished reading this thread and am trying to determine the actual "root cause" of the problem.

Was there a deficiency that was addressed or was this essentially a pH lockout and subsequent adjustment which automatically helped the plant absorb what it needed?

Thx!
Sat