FAILURE: The Dreaded "Path"

[tokinjoe]

I agree the more paths you have to a plant the greater the risk but that's not quite what I meant. Example, one spot I have is about 50 feet off of a roadbed and at the very edge of a field where lots of weeds and blackberry bushes grow. I park on the road in different places and walk through the woods to the field. This is a mature hardwood forest with leaves on the ground and taking different routes to my plant doesn't leave a trail. Either way all of the routes to my plant bottleneck into one spot right at my plants. This is the area I try and fertilize.

The bottom area I grow in has a creek that parallels it and I walk in it as much as I can. Most of my plants are within 20 feet of the creek. It's a very weedy/brushy area with openings in the canopy that seems designed for growing MJ. Without a doubt it's the best place I have to grow but it has lots of lush weeds growing in the open areas and it's almost impossible to not leave some kind of trail no matter what I do. I don't walk in the wide open areas here and try to walk as close to the bushes as I can. I've yet to have a plant stolen. Also, I try and always plant with either bushes as a backdrop or ideally, between two edge areas with bushes also in the front of the plant. Edges of fields are ideal. You get plenty of sunlight and the approach is from the woods where trails are less likely to be made. Works for me.

 

[DimeBag65]

Well after reading all this, i couldnt help but log on and comment

you guys definitely got my wheels turning, and the more i hear people talking about the lands layout and using these to our advantage, i start visualizing many of the prime places that i have scoped out and sometimes its not a simple thing to get there and back undetected either by a trail forming, or going the more public, back road method of parking, walking around the central area to get to your plot.

If its a heavily wooded area, of if you are growing in the back portion of a clearing, it would seem to help if you kept your trail just behind the tree line, as to keep your path outa clear view from above.

a small path behind a tree line, IF detected can be easily mistaken for a deer trail.

i like the idea of bringing a 5 gal pump sprayer with you and spraying high Nitrogen mixture onto and around your path to keep it growing vigorously and hopefully keep up with how often you need to visit.

>>

i figure equally as important as you not being detected would be the location of your plots like was brought up. finding outcropping of rocks, possibly surrounded by a thicket or brush, which can also be fertilized to keep it green.

if you are going to be walking along a general area as it is, and you have to be hauling water, it would seem if you could plant along a general path near or around other shrubbery blocked from view. just water as you go and keep your plants spread out.


it seems it wouldnt even be a bad idea to have a decoy garden, if there is no way that you can hide your entry point and a path, it could work to have the path of least resistance going to a few plants in a more obvious area, and from this point have another path through some brush that cannot being detected farther into the woods or brush to your real plot locations. most people snatch and grab, if they get omething they arnet going to go fighting through more obstacles.

anyways, im tired and stoned so ill leave my ramblings to a minimum.

again great thread and im all ears to ideas

 

[hamstring]

I think Silverback as usual has brought up an important point. I would like to add that when digging your holes it is best to do it early in the spring when the vegetation is small or non-existent.

If you have ever dug some holes in June when everything is knee high it looks like a heard of elephants went through your patch. Even if (which should always be done) you use a tarp to put the soil in while digging you cannot help but to stomp down surrounding new vegetation. Take a step back and look at your area you will not believe how it stands out.
On the other hand in my area right now is perfect for digging because of all the dead vegetation I can dig my hole and simply cover it with surrounding ground cover and you can not tell anyone was even there. Then when you go in to plant with knee hign vegitation you can make a “small footprint” as they say. That should be an outdoor guerillas mantra “Small footprint” on natural surroundings.

Thanks for another great thread SB.

 

[tokinjoe]

Damn good point SB. I sure as hell wish I had this site 20 years ago....due to threads like this growers, especially new ones, have a hell of a lot better chance of doing well starting out once they've read these types of threads. Few things are worse than screwing up a grow and having to wait a year to try it again.

 

[Guest]

tokinjoe i couldn't agree more about the site. I would have been years ahead by now if there had been a site like this to go to. Everything I know came as a result of "dont do that again". The school of hard knocks. From wallyducks seedling cage to fertilizing my path - one good suggestion after another.

hamstring, I agree with doing the work early. I try to have all of my holes dug with conditioners mixed in by the end of fall. Over winter, I carry in a bag or 2 of mulch to each site, cages, rebar,
( i use a 4' rebar stake with some plants so that deer cant run over and knock down my plant.) I have a buddy that even packs in gallons of water to each site so that he has water to plant with.
The only activity I want to focus on in the spring is trasplanting. It will work you to death to try and do it all in the spring.

sb

 

[Guest]

I know that is hard to do it but in guerilla growing we should visite our spots as little times as it possible... Surely, all depends of the weather, place and so on but you go there rarely -your spot stay more safe. Just my two cents
A lot of good ideas and mthods I found here. Great thread Silverback

 

[tokinjoe]

No doubt SB. I couldn't tell you how many times I've screwed up over 20 years and had to wait til "next year" to grow again. I guess it's easy to take sites such as this for granted but back then all I knew about was High Times and I rarely read it. Thanks to threads like these and others the guys just starting out have a wealth of info right here at their fingertips. Ya gotta love the Information Highway....

As of right now, all five of my Big Buddha Cheese have popped and have begun to shed their shells and stretch their wings a bit. Out of 20 Greenhouse Himalayan Gold, seventeen have sprouted and two have not. I dropped one on the floor and couldn't find it so it's fair to say that I have 17/19 germ rate on the HG and 100% on the cheese.

Got two more rolls of 4' chicken wire, flat latex olive green outdoor paint and 16 more 20 gallon red storage totes (grow buckets). Lots of cage making, drilling holes in my buckets and of course a fresh coat of green paint for it all, especially my totes left to do. The carrying the big bags of Sta-Green soil I'm trying not to think about. I'm thinking about running the Mandala #1 as my second grow SB, along with some Grapefruit if FMS can get it together and keep a release date. How are your ladies looking?

 

[Guest]

Your'e right Grunwald, usually weather dictates everything we do regardless of our personal plans.

Hey Joe, My HG's all popped. I too dropped one but thanks to a big magnifying glass, its now a plant. (I have 10 thumbs so i always put down an old white sheet under my work area because loosing a bean is like loosing a 1/2 lb of weed). The Lemon skunks germed fine and are doing well but seem a bit nute sensitive.

My Mandala 1 plants are impressive. This is some of the best hybrid vigor I have seen in a while. I have 2 that are a foot tall and were planted into their outdoor home saturday. I hope to be taking clones by mid may.

Im starting to assign plants. Some holes/ sites can grow big plants and others only smaller stature, some that are in low lying areas that need mould resistance and some high on a hill that need attention to soil moisture. In my mind, one of the most important things to consider when growing OD is to know what to put where. I recently read a thread where the guy was growing in a river valley, which to me means its wet with dew and fog all fall as the warm water and cooler air meet and the guy was growing chocolate chunk and some other big budded indoor strain. I thought to myself that his harvest will be disappointment.

thanks for the tip on green paint.

 

[Shlomo]

I like to move up creek beds, especially when in the mountains there are many water-polished rocks about which leave no trail. Then, a crawler entry point completes the disappearing act, especially if through lush creekside growth (young trees all bent over each other, prickly-ass bushes, and so on).

Of course, others use this, too - in my parts, if the creekis south-facing and near a road you'll find generations of irrigation line under all the litter, all snipped up by the RCMP, rippers, or guys scuttling their gear and using nature as a garbage dump.

But the creek beds on west or east (or north, if you can hike it) facing slopes, are good paths to start on, as they are not usually used for irrigating crops. Just cross over from your entry point till you're south-oriented near your water source. Just remember - creeks and watering holes are a great place to meet animals, including bears!

 

[tokinjoe]

No doubt SB. I try to tell new growers around here that regardless of how good a spot looks sometimes you just can't grow weed there, or a particular strain there. I don't know why that is but I suppose it has to have something to do with the soil around it leaching into the potted soil mix. My bottom area that I reference is such a spot. The first year I planted we were in a drought and my plants did pretty well there. The next year I thought I had it made and scattered 20 plants through this bottom and as soon as we got heavy rains the roots on all of them rotted. At least those that didn't drown first. I've planted in containers ever since and believe it or not, the 95 degree weather we have here doesn't seem to bother the plants. I'm sure the ferts I use on the weeds that surround my containers have something to do with that as they shade my containers from direct sunlight.

This year I have some new opportunities as a lumber company cut a lot of the trees out so I've got tons of new spots that were previously shaded. I'm sure it will take a few years to nail down some really prime areas but once I do it's on.....The prollem with this spot is it's owned by a family that I know. I can drive right in with all of my stuff in my truck pretty much unabated (growers dream) but I'm afraid to do too many due to Leo and the family's father being not a grower. I don't want to screw it up for my buddy who also grows so I spread my grow out. Not much chance of rippers other than the occasional hiker/trespasser. My original idea was to try to harvest 25 this year but I think I'm going to shoot for around 40 or so which is a shitload for me. I already dread the trimming, but with delight if that makes sense...Thanks again for pointing the way to the #1's. I look forward to comparing plants/pheno's with ya. Mine won't be near as big as they will be my second wave but they should still yield decent.

Schlomo, we don't have many bears here, at least not enough to worry about but the snakes and ticks are a consideration. We have deer ticks which are no bigger than the head of a pin but the damn things get on you by the hundreds and itch for weeks. I grew up playing in some of these same woods as a kid and never had a prob with them until our deer population increased. Now my biggest foes are deer and the ticks that come with them. Rubber boots help a lot as I think the get brushed off easier as I walk, compared to cloth ones that give them something to cling on. Either way it's damn well worth it. For the bears, don't they make a bear repellent? I'd deal with a million ticks before I'd want to come face to face with a bear. I don't carry my 7mm Weatherby Mag. in the woods when I grow...

 

[Groucho]

Gotta love checking/removing ticks.
Hate snakes,spiders,wasps,dear flies and fire ants also.
Although great to detour others for obvious reasons.
Walk softly and carry a big stick.

 

[Guest]

Hey Goucho. I hear you on the fire ants. Sometimes you can be on your knees or not paying attention and 10 are on you before you evern notice they're around and then they all start stinging at once. Ouch. I would like to see a quick trial and fair hanging for the person that introduced them to the US.

Ive got 2 spots where I walk up a creek schlomo. They can be good access routes. Ammonia filled squirt gun and act mean for the bear.

Hey tokinjoe,I started planting outdoors today and i spent 10 minutes picking ticks off of me. They are early and thick here this year as we didnt' get any really cold weather over winter. The ground never really froze.

Youre right about some spots being difficult, but if its a really good spot i'll find some way to grow there. A container or something. Flood plains are some of the most difficult places to grow. In the Brown dirt vid he looses one patch to flood plain hazards. I have some spots that have flash flood dangers but if it doesn't flatten them to the ground, they usually survive. It just so happens that flood plains are natural sites for cannabis as they have disturbed sandy loam silt, which cannabis loves.

This is the time of year i start building and planning paths. Ive spent all last week and this cutting small trees, blocking deer trails and establishing new ones away from my grow. Ive got one spot that the deer are using as a central lay. Each time I walk up, a bunch of deer run away and the vines and weeds have been mashed/walked flat. Its going to be real challenge to keep them out but ive been successful before.

Its also the time I try to influence the condition of my site by putting nitro on vines and small cedars or pines so that they are good and green . Ive used 40lbs of pure nitrogen already and have another 40 to apply before it rains this weekend.

 

[Shlomo]

For the bears, don't they make a bear repellent? I'd deal with a million ticks before I'd want to come face to face with a bear.

Awww bears aren't that bad. In my parts, it is mostly black bears, and I've passed them 20-30 feet away without a worry. I usually don't even pack bear spray, unless I'm going into grizzly country.

What I'm shit scared of is running into a rutting elk or moose .

edit: Yeah silverback, all you need for most bears is a loud "Yaaah! Skat!"

 

[tokinjoe]

Good luck keeping the deer out bro. Deer bedding areas are often where we plant or on the edge of them as the deer usually bed in thick areas such as cutovers or in my case, bottom areas with lots of brush and of course near water in the summer. I always run deer out when I go in. Dude I know I've said this before, but if I don't cage my plants it's over. I've tried cutting brush and brushing them in by basically creating a box or triangle of brush with my plant in the center but without fail they will get in there and get them every time. It's a PITA caging the plants and even making/painting the cages but absolutely necessary. Glad to hear you got some plants out, man. Mine are still seedlings at this point but coming along nicely. Glad I didn't put any out yet cause we got one hell of a storm on Sunday with a shitload of hail. Was weird, man, had 3" of hail on the roads, etc and it looked like snow. Weirdest thing I've seen and definitely made me thankful my plants weren't out yet.

 

[Guest]

Hey joe, how long is it into the season before they stop eating the plants?( in normal years. Not during drought or overpopulation, a starving deer will eat bark, clothes off the line or anything it can find)
Usually by 9-10 weeks they don't try anymore do they?
Ive been paying attention. Here, at least for now, there is lots of clover and alphafa growing so Im not to concerned. I hope it stays that way.

I saw your weather on tv. I have some friends that live just south of you and they had some rain and hail from the same system. They are still in drought and need the rain, not the hail.

 

[acidfire]

Acidfire, thats the stuff man. It will set you on fire and it don't wipe off. Those hair like needles get into your skin and for the next 30 minutes, misery is yours and you will no the definition of discomfort. Once touched, the victim no longer looks for anything other than relief.

You are talking about the nettles correct?
Yes they are very annoying, and are noticable right away.
I just wear long sleeves and put my arms in the air when I walk through the patchs.

Deer walk right through the nettles but not the devils clubs.
Ive been lucky enough not to have gotten poked by any sofar.
A friend of mine was and he ended up with a nasty infection from it.

This year I am going to harvest some of the devils fruit, seperate the seeds and then attempt to start them indoors.

 

[facelift]

I've never been ripped or spotted the only plants I've lost were due to flooding. The area I was growing in tended to be on the edges of the shady forest so walking to the plants was no problem with trails. The canopy kept most of the ground bare of plants well into the fall.

If you must walk an area where a path can be made due to bending plants, I suggest zig zagging your way to the plot. I remember I was going to grow in a state park up on a hill that I may have been the only person to venture up simply because there was no trail. On the top of the hill was a field of flowers about 5-6 feet tall. I tried to walk sideways to avoid breaking plants, but when I got to the spot where I was going to grow, I turned around and saw the path.

When I got back out, I tried walking in about 20 yards and started walking horizontal with the edge of the field and just zig zagged through the field until I got to the spot. this worked well. From outside the field any trail was not visible and it looked secure. the issue was water so I abandoned the site.

 

[tokinjoe]

SB, due to past experience I've always believed that deer would not eat the plants once they reached 5' or so and definitely believed that they wouldn't eat budding plants. That changed in '06 when I had a deer eat the shit out of a white widow that was in full bloom. I mean full freakin bloom with heavy trichs, etc. It's hard to tell by this picture, but this is the plant. Look at the branches on the bottom that are nipped off. I lost 2-3 ounces easy when this one got hit. They also hit another one. If I had to guess I'd say they were 3/4 into bloom. Beautiful buds and it shocked the shit outta me. I dunno bro, the deer are my biggest PITA especially on the potted plants I have. I have to remove the chicken wire at some point as the plants outgrow it and I don't want the growth restricted if I can help it. The ones in the ground have more room inside the wire. I have to slip the wire on the 20 gallon pots like a sleeve and have yet to figure a way to get the wire wider than the mouth of the pot and still be able to keep it on, or keep it from falling over on the plant.

 

[Ulysses]

Frak! I thought deer wouldn't touch a resinated plant!

Ok, I've tried to divert a deer path away from the patch by staking thorn bushes to cut off access- hoping the deer will take the path of least resistance... Semi effective.

Now, I want to try this- Staking chicken wire down flat on the trail. I understand deer don't like to have their feet/hooves entangled. Hooves stepping through chicken wire = unpleasant. Think about that one...

 

[tokinjoe]

I'd be interested to see if that works, Ulysses. I'm wondering what would happen if the deer got it's feet tangled in the chickenwire. Unlikely but possible. Also, the chicken wire could mat the foilage where it is placed drawing attention to that area. Just a thought...

I also do food plots for deer and plant clover, alfalfa, turnip greens, wheat and a host of other things. One thing some deer hunters do to protect the plots early on is to use a piece of rope soaked in different chemicals. They rope off the food plot and saturate the rope with a variety of things. Deer will not cross the rope to get into the food plot thus allowing it to grow to the desired height. Once the plot is high enough or the plants are mature, you remove the rope and the deer can feed on the plot. The guys I've chatted with in the past online swear it works. The rope needs to be approx 2 1/2 feet off of the ground.

I do know one thing that will deter a deer is a combination of diesel fuel mixed with burned motor oil. I'm thinking about trying it this year to keep the deer off of my plants after I've removed the chicken wire. You definitely don't want the rope/string touching your plants as the fuel/oil mix will kill the foliage. Deer will at times tolerate man made smells, but when it is in their face like that it seems to deter them. From the studies I've read human urine is not a very good deterrent. I do not urinate from my deer stand but guys I know who are successful do and still tag deer on a regular basis. I would recommend dying or otherwise coloring the string/rope green and use a thin cotton rope to soak the chemical used if you were going to try this.

I know this is a little SB. Seems like your thread has taken a lot of twists and turns. Lots of good info my brother. Hope you don't mind the change of direction.