??ebb and flo medium question??

[ogenko]

i was wondering if anyone had tried ebb and flo using only a small amount of medium??
like a 6" net pot in a 3 gallon bucket or something like that
would the roots fill up all that empty space???

 

[breeder]

the idea behind an E&F garden is to have a top tray that would usually hold x amount of plants. To use a bucket and then a 6" net cup placed into the lid would require an xternal res. in order to fill the bucket at x times, and then the bucket would drain back into the res.
If this is all you have then might i suggest building yourself a waterfarm, or dwc set-up.

 

[PonicalChillin]

I think what ogenko is thinking about is a bucket sytle ebb and flow system using buckets and a controller bucket with float valves; systems such as the multiflow and ebb & gro.

These systems typically are a 3gal bucket within another 3 gal bucket which gets flooded. The inner bucket is full of hydroton..which is a pain to haul around and clean every cycle.

The idea of getting a lid for the inner bucket and only using a 6" netcup filled with hydroton is what he is reffering to. Will it work?

I have no idea..but it sure would be nice to see.
I imagine you would have to flood often..very often...making sure your roots wouldn't dry out during your non-flood times as the majority of them would just be hanging in air. Would water temps be more of an issue then traditional ebb and flow?

Is it aero?.. is it dwc? or is it flood?
..i guess who cares..but I want to know if it'll work as I love the multiflow style systems, but absolutely hate are those darn rocks.

peace

 

[ogenko]

The idea of getting a lid for the inner bucket and only using a 6" netcup filled with hydroton is what he is reffering to. Will it work?:

yeah thats what i was thinkin Ponical
i might have to try it for myself just to see
i saw one thread here, cant remember which one it was though;
it was ebb and flow with two buckets of the same size and the upper bucket filled with rocks......
there was a big space under the top bucket though, like 6 inches or so of air space in there...
and it was completely full of roots
got me to thinkin =)

 

[statictattoo]

I think their called Krusty buckets or freedom buckets

 

[gride]

I think their called Krusty buckets or freedom buckets

from MyNameStitch's Krusty bucket thread

i was thinking more like a dwc bucket (3-5 gallon buckt and 6" netpot)
but ebb and flo instead of deep water.

looks like you're gonna have a nice run with the skywalker and cheese

 

[Mr Celsius]

I think their called Krusty buckets or freedom buckets

No, not at all. Those had medium and created a froth of bubbles, not ebb n' flow.

Yes this would work, if you flooded often.... how often? I don't know, you'd need to experiment. Would this system produce better results? Nope... you'd save some money on hydroton or coco.... why would you do it?

 

[statictattoo]

so along the lines of this thread, I was wondering... I have my seedlings in 1 inch cubes.. i don't plan on using buckets in my tray, just have the plants in rockwool covered in clay rocks.. now i know i have to put the 1 inch cube into a bigger cube.. my question is what after that? like will i need to add a even bigger rockwool cube? Im kinda confused.. but love the idea of no buckets and can have x number of plants in any configuration i want

 

[Stealthy]

Yeah you would probably have to flood quite often with no medium / hydroton. There is nothing to hold moisture in between floods so the roots would dry out pretty quick.

 

[PonicalChillin]

why would you do it?

- to avoid having to clean multiple 50L bags of hydroton..which is a real back breaker. I've used similar ebb&gro type of systems flooding 12 3gal or so buckets full of hydroton. 12 buckets alone took 2 50L bags of stone..which wasn't too bad, but still a pain none the less.

they say these systems are expandable to 48 buckets (dont know how with a single 55 gallon res)..which would be about 8 bags of 50L hydroton. That there has got to be an absolute chore to haul in, clean, etc.

The system seems great for a larger grow keeping plant numbers low.. but the thought of cleaning that much stone is a big .

__

Anyways - I'm not going to try it as I have no clones, time, etc to risk for the sake of experimentation..but if anyone ever does give it a go please PM me with your findings.

-- I'm off to clean stone

__

I have in the past seen a lid for a 3x3 tray which holds 36 1.5" cubes. The tray looks to be flooded right to the bottom...so mediumless ebb and flow is definately possible with frequent floods.

 

[Haps]

It works just fine, here is a half pounder in a 5 inch net pot. I flood, drain one hour later, and repeat every four hours for ten weeks, which ironically is 420 cycles!
H

 

[yamaha_1fan]

so along the lines of this thread, I was wondering... I have my seedlings in 1 inch cubes.. i don't plan on using buckets in my tray, just have the plants in rockwool covered in clay rocks.. now i know i have to put the 1 inch cube into a bigger cube.. my question is what after that? like will i need to add a even bigger rockwool cube? Im kinda confused.. but love the idea of no buckets and can have x number of plants in any configuration i want

I dont think you need to go into a bigger cube. It sounds like you are just going to fill the table with rock? If so, thats how I grow. Plants go inthe tray in rapid rooters (same size as a 1" RW cube) and get covered with rocks. And they do fine. Just make sure they are at the right height so they get watered properly. If too high, the water level wont hit the roots.

 

[statictattoo]

I dont think you need to go into a bigger cube. It sounds like you are just going to fill the table with rock? If so, thats how I grow. Plants go inthe tray in rapid rooters (same size as a 1" RW cube) and get covered with rocks. And they do fine. Just make sure they are at the right height so they get watered properly. If too high, the water level wont hit the roots.

So no bigger rockwool cube?... will a inch cube hold enough moister between watering? You dont add on another cube.. from seedling to finish in a 1 inch cube? How does it hold water between waterings?? I think that would be fine with SoG with 36 clones vegged for a week and thrown into flower... but from a seed?

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I am just telling you how I do it. My clones are pretty small when I transplant them, roots barely coming out of the rooters. I would think the rockwool cubes would hold too much water. I water every 3 hours when lights are on.

I have a table that I just harvested a few days ago. Lights are still on over it but the pump has been off for 2 days. If I move the rocks, there is still water in the bottom of the table

 

[PonicalChillin]

Haps,

I see.. very nice.

I also noticed you are still using airpumps for your 1hour flood duration. Are they really needed if the system is going to be drained in an hour..give the roots as much air as they want?

I still dont see how you are flooding only every 4 hours. The roots that just hang in the bucket dont dry out during that time? Thats all the more frequent I would flood if using a full bucket of stones.

I love the flooding bucket systems like the ebb&gro and multi flow for several reasons:
- reservoir temp tolerant
- extremely simple and easy to setup, tear down, etc
- no noisey airumps or massive water pumps that DWC requires

If your using airpumps in your flood and drain buckets they why even bother flooding and draining..why not just run dwc. Is this just your method of recirulating the nutrients every now and again?

Edit - also..what are those smaller 2 holes on the outside of your larger netcup hole?

 

[gride]

It works just fine, here is a half pounder in a 5 inch net pot. I flood, drain one hour later, and repeat every four hours for ten weeks, which ironically is 420 cycles!
H

thanks HAPS ...thats exactly what i was wondering

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Years ago we got the idea from Horticulturists to try NFT on a 15on/15off cycle... to give the roots time to take in air.....

like all great theories it made perfect sense and seemed an obvious path, so we set up a test. 2 side by side identical 2.5M² NFT tables were planted out with identical evenly matched cuttings, the result was obvious in week one, although my friend persevered till the bitter end .... 1300 vs 1900g .... we proved beyond any doubt [in my mind at least...] that continuous flow is better than intermittent.. Likewise, experiments on drip feeding often show that constant drip works better than various intermittent patterns.

I have not done this experiment on E&F, but bet a fat donkey dick any day that more watering cycles means more bud.

 

[Murphy]

I guess I'm off track here but it seems like it's pretty complicated and risky to me. If you don't want to deal with Hydrotron why not use 6 inch rockwool cubes on a table. Why are you so stuck on the buckets? I only ask because when I started planning, that's where I was, then I totalled up the cost. I saw a thread for a cheap ebb and flow & flow set up and used 6 inch pots. I think in total is was less then $75...

2 Super tubs from Lowes about $30
1 pump about $25
6 inch pots about $20

Rockwool and or hydrotron as a medium and your set up in less then a few hours and can be taken down in minutes. If the super tub doesn't cut it for the amount of plants you want, build your own table for whatever size you need.

Start dealing with a bunch of buckets and you have a lot of potential leaks. No medium and you're looking from problems with roots drying out. just my 2 cents. By the way, depending on your space, 3.5 gallon office trash cans work out better to effeciently fill a space then round buckets. I cut up a piece of plexi glass to make the lids before I scrapped the idea.

 

[Haps]

P - The extra holes are each above the flow fittings on either side of the bucket, they are for access should the roots ever clog the fittings, and this rig has dual inlets, and dual air pumps. There is about two inches of water in the buckets at low tide, and the air keeps that moving, the roots are quite happy. The low tide lasts for about three hours, and I do start the first couple days running the rig like dwc till my roots are ready. The rig is designed to function if any of the pumps stop, air or water.

Putting this much air in goes beyond max DO, there is something in the movement or kinesis that adds to the equation, but I can not explain it. The girls like it.
H

 

[Daemon]

I guess I'm off track here but it seems like it's pretty complicated and risky to me. If you don't want to deal with Hydrotron why not use 6 inch rockwool cubes on a table. Why are you so stuck on the buckets? I only ask because when I started planning, that's where I was, then I totalled up the cost. I saw a thread for a cheap ebb and flow & flow set up and used 6 inch pots. I think in total is was less then $75...

2 Super tubs from Lowes about $30
1 pump about $25
6 inch pots about $20

Rockwool and or hydrotron as a medium and your set up in less then a few hours and can be taken down in minutes. If the super tub doesn't cut it for the amount of plants you want, build your own table for whatever size you need.

Start dealing with a bunch of buckets and you have a lot of potential leaks. No medium and you're looking from problems with roots drying out. just my 2 cents. By the way, depending on your space, 3.5 gallon office trash cans work out better to effeciently fill a space then round buckets. I cut up a piece of plexi glass to make the lids before I scrapped the idea.

I've been looking for that thread but I can't seem to find it anywhere, you don't have a link for it do you?