Earth holes: A experiment in Guerrilla irrigation

[basilfarmer]

smokeymacpot- I'm actually afraid water crystals may be too much............. water crystals are used for holding moisture for use later, with the Earth hole you shouldn't need that, the only place I'd consider using them in a Earth hole would be in the wick its self, they really have no place or need anywhere else in the hole.

great thread backcountry. everytime I come by here you have something going on. I saw a grow at overgrow where a guy used new chem free mop head strings as wicks into very wet ground. Anyway, this idea of yours looks about as camo & failsafe as it could get.

not to sidetrack, but I have heard a few times that polymer crystals make the buds taste plasticy????? anyone can confirm or dismiss this? thanks.

 

[journeyquest]

You gave me some good ideas. I designed a system using a combo of others ideas. I explained it (sorta) at your home page. check it. I will pretest it this summer at home with tomatos or...? I have a cab setup for spring. Need a couple more things yet. thanks

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

Hey guys! I'm still getting prep work done on the up coming season, at the moment I'm working on placing my non-Earth hole plots, all should be placed in the coming month. I may go ahead and get the main 2009 grow thread up in a week or two to help documant my progress.

basilfarmer- I've never noticed plastic taste in my buds, its a old wives tale that must die.

journeyquest- I'll check your idea soon if I can.

I'd also like to discourage anyone from trying to make a Earth hole using only thing sheet plastic of any kind to hold the water or media, remember my earlier warning about gophers and other burrowing animals destroying it, there are no easy streets in Guerrilla growing.

Anyways, the season is almost upon us!

 

[L-Thirt33n]

I constructed something similar a couple years ago. It all started off with excellent results. But then as time went on and the plants got into their flowering cycle the system developed horrible side affects. All the plants died over night. After deconstructing the whole thing I found out that Mold, bacteria and pH problems gave way to the entire season being wasted...

Depending on the length of time you run your resevoir system, the more severe these problems will be. I can't gaurentee you'll have these results and I wish you the best brotha but they are pretty hard to avoid...

You will most likely run into these 2 problems first, for sure -

1. You will develope major pH problems after the second week of the water being stagnant...

2. Non-benefitial bacteria will thrive in the stagnant water stored in the resevoir! This in turn will cause the mold and bacteria to grow on any surface they can! The water then becomes pretty much toxic to you AND your plants. Plants have better defenses against this, in a natural setting but putting a box in the ground with plastic lining is anything but natural...

I have yet to overcome these issues without compromising the overall purpose of it, to reduce the amount of on-site visits...

I hope you have different results.

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

I have to admit that the possibility of what you speak of has crossed my mind many a time........

I'm not too worried about the stagnant water, I have spent many a summer watering my thriving vegetable gardens from huge stagnant stock tanks, no problems on my part using stagnant water. Proper balancing of the PH of the planting medium should keep PH problems in the water and media under control.

More my worry is that the system may give bad molds a place to grow(in the air spaces of the rez) and attack the root system.

But all that said, I have to consider the highly successful Earthbox, which is the same basic system in a planter. I have heard of no problems from users of that system related to mold or stagnant water, and this is why I believe this system is totally worth trying this summer to settle the question once and for all.

I'd be interested to see pictures and a more detailed description of what you built and how you were using it.

 

[L-Thirt33n]

Unfortunatly I had never taken any pictures of the setup. It was almost identical to yours only I didn't use wood. I had used plexiglass and sealed up the edges with calk. More difficult to construct but much cleaner. Plus, if you use wood, the wood will rot if left under the soil too long.

The whole point of me doing it was to experiment with reducing the trips out to the site and keeping the plants very well hydrated...Well it turns out that having a device like this requires MORE babysitting of your plants than before so that kind of flopped.

I put a 5 Gallon bucket in just as you did. I drilled smaller holes though. I used a 1/8th bit. Took me long time. lol. Instead of filling the bucket with just soil as a wick I used 2 parts Coconut Coir to 3 parts soil. The rest of the soil mix above also had coir in it. The bottom 4 inch layer of soil had the same 2:3 mixture of coir to soil but the rest had very little coir in it.

The first thing that went wrong for me was obviously the mold. When I started diggin that thing up there was so much mold growing through the bucket and up into the soil and into the roots it was very suprising actually. Inside that little box there was so much mold you couldn't even see through the top half of the plexiglass, barely. It was rather disgusting. I think sunlight getting into the fill tube adds to the mold and bacteria production. It heats it up down there unnaturally and stimulates all the nasties...

I think the mold also led to the pH problems and harmful microbial bacteria. PH of the water was WAY low. Like around 4.5. I took a sample of the soil a little farther up from the box and the pH was still way too low.

"Proper balancing of the pH of the planting medium should keep PH problems in the water and media under control."

Well I thought so too... I am very meticulous about my pH levels. And my medium was adjusted prior to even putting the mixture any where near the site. The problem came from the water inside the reservoir. With it being absorbed from the bottom of the soil and soaking it upwards towards the roots, which is the whole idea of the device, resulted in the problem coming from the bottom up, not the other way. Unfortunatly you can't fight the pH problems from the bottom unless you either adjust the pH of the reservoir or drain it and put different water in it. The bottom and tips of the roots are the most sensitive.

From my experience if you have to try and adjust the pH from within the reservoir it totally defeats the purpose of having the thing there to begin with...

But see, those marketed Earthboxes are used slightly differently...I don't know to be honest with you but I had horrible results...

One reason I think I may have had results that you may end up not having is I live in Michigan. Sometimes it can rain a lot and get very humid here. I think that played a huge factor.

We shall see, I suppose...I'm not trying to put any kind of damper on your project/s here bro, I'm just putting in my results from something similar. While it is similar it is different and your methods may end up having completely different results and may very well find its place in cannabis cultivation. I'm actually excited to observe your efforts and see your results because of my bad experience with this.

PS- Another negative side affect I had was that all the soil in my bucket, ended up turning to mud. I had constructed it with that in mind so the bucket was only 1/4 submerged in the water...Well it didn't seem to matter. The water inside the reservoir was nasty and muddy. You will have to find a better way of wicking. Soil wick is a bad idea in my opinion...

 

[SativaHybrid]

There are a few key facts that I believe could determine sucess or failure with this design. First is having the fill tube for the res. sealed at all times except
when filling. This should greately reduce the chances of mold. Also when adding nutes directly to the res. ensure that they can be mixed and remain aerobic for awhile. Adding a asprin, willow water, or some sort of anti fungal may be wise. The problem with the system in question soundls like climate. Michigan gets alot of water compared to the west. As a matter of fact some seasons growers in Michigan can go all season without watering, depending on site selection. In Michigan spring and fall tend to be very wet with a mild
Drought in the summer. This climate is much better suited for a system like the water collar, with a smaller res. this would allow for quicker usage and much better control. Also nutes should probably only be added to water during dry spells because during heavy rain nutes could be trapped in the res. In drier climates i believe many of these concerns could be avoided.

 

[L-Thirt33n]

I agree. I'v came to the same conclusion myself.

It's sad that the climate has such a profound affect on such a great idea...

The particular location I was growing in when I developed my reservoir was actually a very dry area. Which is why I developed it. Ever since then I'v grown all my crops deeper into the forests near slightly more swampy areas. I'v been VERY successfull in doing so. Usually I don't even have to add a single drop of water. So I think my climate is more well suited to the "plant and forget" kind of style. Which is what I was aiming for.

But it will be interesting to see if this kind of system could work for people in dryer climates. This could extend some locational possibilites.

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

L-Thirt33n- Yeah, I wouldn't use a system like this in a cooler/moister climate like Michigan, no point in going to the trouble I think. I am developing this for Guerrilla growers in truly dry summer climates, like we have out west here, I doubt this system will be of much use to many folks living east of the Rocky mountains, and probably shouldn't be.

I disagree about the Earthboxes and its clones being different from my Earth holes, the only difference is that mine is built in the ground rather than on the surface. The success of those self watering planters gives me lots of confidence in the idea.

Somehow the Earth box seems to thrive under the conditions you describe as horrible, and the Earth box has tons of documentation. And I can't help but wonder if your water started out acidic? Did you let the system use its water, or did you top it off regularly? I am also curious if your system was totally sealed from the surrounding soil, or if the roots could access it?
Could you do a nice paint drawing showing the ins and outs of your system? I'd like to see how close to my idea your idea was, cuz I have a feeling there are differences.........

My goal is to extend visits to 3-5 weeks, the water given should be mostly used up by that time, giving it very little time to sit and turn nasty. Also, buried in the ground the water should stay quite a bit cooler than the surface soil, helping to stave off bacterial problems.

The bottom line is the experiments will start underway in about a month, I think I will have great success, or else udder and complete failure. If its failure, I'll abandon the idea and use one of the other systems I'm testing this summer, thats the point of experimentation.

I still just can't help but look at the success of the Earth box.................

 

[L-Thirt33n]

I havn't used it since the incident and probably never will, unfortunatly...

I'v changed locations since then and I havn't had to water my plants at all... I basically plant and forget. But I found the proper location to allow for this. It's kind of a swampy area near a little stream. Lots of moss and ferns. Quite the little paradise...

I'm pretty positive my design is almost completely identical to yours. Although I'm not sure about application and how you intend to apply yours to your grow.

I used PLEXIGLASS to seal the reservoir off completely and not wood.

I had severe mold problems, no questions about that. The whole inner portion of the box that wasn't under water was covered in a white fuzzy like mold. It spread up into the bucket. I had roots growing into the bucket as well.

The pH of the water was adjusted prior to filling the reservoir. As well as the amended soil. So how the pH became so acidic, I really have no clue. Possibly rain water?

I would only visit the site once a month. The water level never seemed to really drop. So...

You figure, rain water gets in there, screws the pH up then sunlight gets in it and vuola, you got mold...

The biggest design flaw in my opinion, the spickot. That little tube has to have a lid to block the light and other outside elements. I think that will stop A LOT of the problems I had.

I think you can pull it off. I gave up on mine. But mainly because I really have no need for it. No point in all the effort if it's useless to me, heh, mold or no mold...

The original EarthBox is quite a bit different from what I did. With the EarthBox you put the medium completely on top of the water. It doesn't have a seperate reservoir or a wicking system at all. Thus the water is not sitting stagnant, it's constantly absorbed by the soil.

http://www.earthbox.com/consumer/instructions.html

This would not work for the results we are looking for. Which is why we had to create something that is slightly deviated from that design...

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

I'm pretty positive my design is almost completely identical to yours. Although I'm not sure about application and how you intend to apply yours to your grow..........

........You figure, rain water gets in there, screws the pH up then sunlight gets in it and vuola, you got mold...

The biggest design flaw in my opinion, the spickot. That little tube has to have a lid to block the light and other outside elements. I think that will stop A LOT of the problems I had.

I think you can pull it off. I gave up on mine. But mainly because I really have no need for it. No point in all the effort if it's useless to me, heh, mold or no mold...

One thing I still need to understand was if your system was totally self-contained or not? Meaning, was there a way for excess water(from rain) to drain from the planting hole, or was it totally isolated from the surrounding natural soil, allowing the soil to become sloppy and over saturated inside the planting hole?

I would only visit the site once a month. The water level never seemed to really drop. So...

This sounds like a major indicator that you didn't need the system at all, either the weather was not hot enough for the plant to use the water like it should, and/or it rained so much that it kept your system full, either way using this system was over kill, and it appears your main problem may have been overly wet roots.

I agree that the filling tube should be sealed so bugs and light can't get in, although I believe that air-flow should be allowed, it can't be anything but good for the roots of the plants.

The original EarthBox is quite a bit different from what I did. With the EarthBox you put the medium completely on top of the water. It doesn't have a seperate reservoir or a wicking system at all. Thus the water is not sitting stagnant, it's constantly absorbed by the soil.

http://www.earthbox.com/consumer/instructions.html

This would not work for the results we are looking for. Which is why we had to create something that is slightly deviated from that design...

The pictures above are from the link you supplied above(I've been there many times and studied it thoroughly), In the first pic you can clearly see the area designated as a reservoir, in the following two pics you can see the area depicted as being filled with water.

These two pics are the two basic versions of my Earthhole, the Box, and the Tub and Bucket. Both are essentially Earthboxes built in the ground with larger reservoir sections, and your drawing appears to be the same basic design............if you search around the web you will see many home made versions of the Earthbox, in all different designs and sizes(many with soil wicks that look alot like mine), they all have one thing in common, a reservoir for holding liquid water and a soil wick to bring it to the planter section. It may appear that the original Earthbox doesn't have a soil wick like my Earthhole, but it does and it works on the same principle, Capillary action, and it appears you were trying for the same idea in your system.

 

[L-Thirt33n]

One thing I still need to understand was if your system was totally self-contained or not? Meaning, was there a way for excess water(from rain) to drain from the planting hole, or was it totally isolated from the surrounding natural soil, allowing the soil to become sloppy and over saturated inside the planting hole?

This sounds like a major indicator that you didn't need the system at all, either the weather was not hot enough for the plant to use the water like it should, and/or it rained so much that it kept your system full, either way using this system was over kill, and it appears your main problem may have been overly wet roots.

I agree that the filling tube should be sealed so bugs and light can't get in, although I believe that air-flow should be allowed, it can't be anything but good for the roots of the plants.

The pictures above are from the link you supplied above(I've been there many times and studied it thoroughly), In the first pic you can clearly see the area designated as a reservoir, in the following two pics you can see the area depicted as being filled with water.

These two pics are the two basic versions of my Earthhole, the Box, and the Tub and Bucket. Both are essentially Earthboxes built in the ground with larger reservoir sections, and your drawing appears to be the same basic design............if you search around the web you will see many home made versions of the Earthbox, in all different designs and sizes(many with soil wicks that look alot like mine), they all have one thing in common, a reservoir for holding liquid water and a soil wick to bring it to the planter section. It may appear that the original Earthbox doesn't have a soil wick like my Earthhole, but it does and it works on the same principle, Capillary action, and it appears you were trying for the same idea in your system.

Yes, unfortunatly it was completely sealed off. No overflow hole. In all honesty, now that I think of it, that could make or break this system. lol

The roots probably were over saturated. But there was definitly mold! Don't disregard that...

When I designed it I was completely unaware of the EarthBox. I designed mine from scratch...So yea, I suppose that may have been a problem.

Suprisingly, I did need it. The area where I was cultivating had very little moisture. It was a very dry area. And I knew that. But it was so isolated and perfect I just had to think of something. Alas, my "earth hole"...lol. But now, since I'v changed locations it became very clear to me that with my climate here in Michigan, it's completely unnecessary.

Maybe for the fill hole you can put a few small holes in the side of it? I think the spickot and the overflow hole are going to be the major hurdles of the design.

After looking closely at those pictures of the EarthBox I see now that off on the one side there IS in fact what appears to be a soil wick. I was assuming that was to depict the dirt being completely mixed with the reservoir because it doesn't show clearly if that screen goes all the way accross the box or not...That would change everything IMO.

Like I said, my design was flawed tremendously. Obviously. I just wanted to put forth my experience with it in hopes of it helping you determine what the flaws actually are and addresss them accordingly...

I personally didn't bother doing that because it wouldn't have benefitted me enough.

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

My earth holes won't be completely sealed off from the surrounding soil, there will be space allowed for the plants roots to explore out of the original hole, and this will also allow excess water to drain from the hole, although it doesn't rain much here in summer, and I'll quit filling the Earth holes with water when the fall rains start, and the temps drop back into the 60s and 70s on a regular basis.

Nice talking with you! Good luck with what ever you have going for this summer!

 

[L-Thirt33n]

My earth holes won't be completely sealed off from the surrounding soil, there will be space allowed for the plants roots to explore out of the original hole, and this will also allow excess water to drain from the hole, although it doesn't rain much here in summer, and I'll quit filling the Earth holes with water when the fall rains start, and the temps drop back into the 60s and 70s on a regular basis.

Nice talking with you! Good luck with what ever you have going for this summer!

Yea, like I said, I think you can pull it off man! I'll follow along for sure, just to see you succeed where I failed...



You too brotha! And the same to you.

I plan on doing Hawaiian Snow, Nevilles Haze and Mazar I Sharif...Not sure about quantity. Maybe 2 of each... I usually don't do a whole lot of plants because I only grow for myself.

 

[coralreefer]

hey bc i was looking at your original pictures and wondering if you were keeping the black plastic in the hole with the tub and bucket. cus up above you said you would not have it completely sealed off. im thinking keeping the black plastic would be better with some drain holes at the bottom to retain moisture and not allow other plants to parasite off of the fine ladies we will be growing

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

hey bc i was looking at your original pictures and wondering if you were keeping the black plastic in the hole with the tub and bucket. cus up above you said you would not have it completely sealed off. im thinking keeping the black plastic would be better with some drain holes at the bottom to retain moisture and not allow other plants to parasite off of the fine ladies we will be growing

Yep! My intention all along was to only line the sides of the hole, if you look at my drawings above(which appear earlier in this thread), you will see that the plastic liner does not cover the bottom of the hole in either design, allowing excess moisture to drain away.

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Next week I'll be getting the holes dug for my two main non-Earth hole plots, after that is done I'll start getting my four experimental Earth holes dug and installed. At some point I'll get my main grow thread for the season up and running.

Lots of rain lately, but the temps are getting better, so its not too cold working in it, just gotta make sure I have good plants to plug into them in May.

 

[confused]

Good luck with the boxes backcountry. Checking out your, do you water thread - I still can't belive you get 3.5" of rain during the season :smile: , makes me feel lazy for getting around 20".

Where did L-13 go, the coyotes get him?

 

[Cascadia]

Hmmmm, still not sure what I'm gonna do this summer.........I'd like to try some Earth holes, but I don't have time to develop clones or sexed seedlings, and I don't want to commit to that much work if the plant turns out to be male. Maybe I'll try a couple non-sexed plants in one hole, and then just hope one turns out female.

Good luck to all this season!

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

Cascadia- Yeah, putting two seedlings in one hole is a good last ditch option when you have no other way to get guaranteed females.

I would advise you to be cautious about depending on Earth holes to provide your years worth of bud, they are very experimental, I'd advise only the most adventurous gamblers to try it this year. Let me take the fall if they don't work quite as well as planned.

You might consider trying a simple timer based irrigation system for the bulk of your plants, or perhaps some of those Blumats, I can't wait to get all my guys humming away!

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

OK, I'm taking a week long break from getting plots established, this break in the wet weather we are having here is allowing the soil in my veggie gardens to dry enough to till. So I'll be driving a tiller this week, heh heh.

I have the areas all picked out for Earth holes, I'll be mixing soil for them today or tomorrow, I'll post up a pictorial of the process when I'm done mixing. I'll let the soil set and "cook"(its going to be all organic) for a few weeks, allowing the lime to adjust the PH, and for soil microbes to reproduce and multiply.

At this point, my non-Earth hole plots will be planted from May 5-15, and my Earth holes will go in May 15-25. Since I have no idea if any of my Earth holes will be truly large enough for a Medium-Large size plant, I'm going to start them later than my typical planting time of April 25-May 10, and hopefully I won't overwhelm the systems if they work "too" good.

Anyways, as soon as I have enough going on to justify a grow journal, this seasons grow thread will go up, I'm sure by the end of April.