Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

took two clones of each strain from apical growth rather than axial. destroyed rest of plant.

why the apical growth rather than the axial. is there a theory at play that led you to source this growth rather than axial growth.

thanks for the details of your rather intense regimen.

sounds as thourough as one could possibly be without totally starting new in a fresh spot.

wow.

sounds like a fucking nightmare.

 

[Crooked8]

And this is an example of why ive always stood by sl. Very few go to the lengths he just described. I applaud all efforts in that realm.

 

[Bigbux82]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I have pics on my thread that pertains to duds, cyclamen, and/or broad mites. Without reposting the pics on this thread I'm wondering if anyone can take a look at the pics on my 1 page thread and let me know if they think I have duds, should start over, have hope, should blow my brains out, etc... Or if it's better to post them again here, I can do that too.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=286021

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

[QUOTE=high life 45 SAM what is qsms?
Quicksilver Messenger Service
Quicksilver Messenger Service line-up (by year)
Quicksilver Messenger Service
1965–1967
Gary Duncan – guitar, vocals
John Cipollina – guitar
Jim Murray – guitar, vocals
David Freiberg – bass, vocals
Greg Elmore – drums
Quicksilver Messenger Service
1967–1969
Gary Duncan – guitar, vocals
John Cipollina – guitar
David Freiberg – bass, vocals
Greg Elmore – drums
Quicksilver Messenger Service
1969
John Cipollina – guitar
David Freiberg – bass, vocals
Greg Elmore – drums
Nicky Hopkins – keyboards

Then Dino joined them, I hated the change. I saw their first concert with Dino at the San Bernardino Auditorium, I think Dec 1969, I was high on brotherhood Orange sunshine, I went with friend, a member of the BEL. I did not even know who Dino was or why he ruined the QSMS sound! Years later I found Dino's music OK.
-SamS

Quicksilver Messenger Service
1969–1971
Dino Valenti – guitar, vocals
Gary Duncan – guitar, vocals
John Cipollina – guitar
David Freiberg – bass, vocals
Greg Elmore – drums
Nicky Hopkins – keyboards

 

[RetroGrow]

Below is a picture that will give you a visual reference point to the size of Broad Mites. These Broad Mites are sitting atop a White Fly.
-SamS

That's how they roll!
Phoresy......

 

[Infinitesimal]

damn, who doesn't get white flies at one time or another... "damn nature, you scary!"

 

[SaBeS]

I have tried hot water dips on cannabis, and it did not work for me. Plants were ruined. Hot air? Different story. Hot water dips are commonly used on peppers and other commercial greenhouse crops. Some peeps are dipping roots in hot water to kill root aphids. Seems the question here is whether "dudding" is caused by something other than BM toxins, and it seems the only way to determine that is to send some "dudded" material in for testing. In my case, the only duds I have had were from BMs/Cyclamens, and the only way to fix it is by eliminating the pests, and using aspirin to knock back the toxins. If the cause of this "new" type of "dudding" is a virus or other pathogen, it's going to take a lab to diagnose. Whatever it is, as usual, all the clone trading/buying will spread it. Makes a person want to buy more seeds......

Sorry I meant a cold water dip at 35 degree farenheit. I would assume a hot water dip would not take to kindly to foliage or roots.

 

[SaBeS]

cleared and nuked room in question. heated to 170°F for <24 hrs.

rest of premises: culled all observably affected stock as well as any examples of affected strains.

treated remaining stock with a host of miticides, rotated properly, including systemic (spiromefesin). also, neem & botanical oils & biowar foliar pack.

introduced biocontrols.

took two clones of each strain from apical growth rather than axial. destroyed rest of plant. submersed each clone in a miticide cocktail, once when cut and again after rooting.

scoped everything every day, paying special attention to apical meristem. it's no coincidence that the place where the lil bastards like to post up is the same one that's easiest for us to ignore.

disposed of all containers and all items we coulld afford t erpoace.
throughly and vigorously scrubbed and sanitized everything it was not practical to discard. autoclaved everything we could.

we now have foot baths and hand dips at every entrance. they all contain quaternary ammonia. we use them religiously.

we touch nothing with our bare hands. always gloves. we are downright anal about never letting a tool contact two plants without sanitizing. no shred of vegetation is left on the floor or otherwise off the plants to rot and attract fungus gnats and other things that feed on decay and carry plaguwe in their guts.

it was a pain int he ass to switch inot severe anal mode like that, but after a time it gets to be second nature.




i positively identified broads by their dimpled eggs. i also actually saw a broad on two occasions.

there was another type of egg present on the undersides of the leaves. i narrowed them to cyclamen or russets but couldn't make a positive ID from the egs alone with the very poor optics i was using back then.



i hear you about there usually needing to be a vector to transmit a viral pathogen.

1. i am practically convinced that there is a living pathogen at play here and not simply poison bug spit.

2. i have no rational basis to suspect a virus any more than
a fungus or bacterium.

3. i run recirc hydro, so, in practice, all my plants are in the same container. do you think this would suffice to spread a virus sans vector?

4. their numbers seemed negligible, but there were a few fungus gnats present while the spredaing was happening. i do not know if gnats are a vector of our hypothetical pathogen, but if ti were mine to describe, i would say that gnats definitely carry it.

with regard to reversing duds, i have remembered one thing. when i gave up on the adub, i threw the last couple of healthy looking examples of it outside. i wouldn't say that they flourished by any stabdard, but they did come in with trichs and a nose. the sample size is too small to be significant, but it is worth looking into further that dud plants may begin to bounce when placed under the sun and stars rather than under HID lamps.

Do you clone in a cloner and use cloning solutions, because most of them have solvents?

As these solvents permeate the plant cells, who know what they might be able to spread.

Just a thought.

 

[IGROWMYOWN]

And this is an example of why ive always stood by sl. Very few go to the lengths he just described. I applaud all efforts in that realm.

Am I reading that post wrong where he knew he had serious issues in his room and still passed out cuts or was that after the fact? The part about propping a couple generations sounds like he knew there could be a problem before passing out the duds.

 

[Crooked8]

He passed the cuts afterward from my knowledge. This is why residual bm toxins seem to be the culprit. I dunno, im sad shit went sideways but the light at the end of the tunnel seems to be getting brighter.

 

[IGROWMYOWN]

That seems ethical to you? I know I wouldn't give anything out period if I knew I had issues in my room especially a bout with bms and other mites. If somebody insisted I would at the very least issue a warning/disclaimer.... But that's obviously just me.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Yep...something fishy about distributing "substandard clones". Time for a recall?...ala Government Motors? LOL...almost 14 million cars recalled this year, poor GM.

My $0.02 about Broad Mite effects on cannabis: cull the infected plants and restock with fresh clean gear. All genetics I had when I got hit about 1 1/2 years ago with a nasty BM infestation--became problematic, took longer to veg out, and the quality/quantity of the harvest diminished significantly. The new gear were like amazon ladies ready to run a marathon...the old gear were like old ladies in wheelchairs.

Sorry, I am more of a "farmer"--not "nurse nightengale".

Cheers!

 

[sunset limited]

Am I reading that post wrong where he knew he had serious issues in his room and still passed out cuts or was that after the fact? The part about propping a couple generations sounds like he knew there could be a problem before passing out the duds.

That seems ethical to you? I know I wouldn't give anything out period if I knew I had issues in my room especially a bout with bms and other mites. If somebody insisted I would at the very least issue a warning/disclaimer.... But that's obviously just me.

He passed the cuts afterward from my knowledge. This is why residual bm toxins seem to be the culprit. I dunno, im sad shit went sideways but the light at the end of the tunnel seems to be getting brighter.

you know, i'm right here and i can hear you.

yes, it was after. upwards of two years after we had issues and had corrected them. and the only thing in common in the room between then and when those cuts were distributed is the address. all the equipment had been replaced, as had all the stock. it's not like it was a week or a month earlier and i was taking it on faith that things were ducky before shit went public.

does this look dudded to you?

it didn't to me. still doesn't, even after a half dozen folks (out of hundreds) came forward to say they have not gotten similar results from their clones. this was taken on 2/7—a day before the la cup. these flowers came from the same round of cuts that everyone got. and this the grade of material we consistently have produced since we got rid of the mites in 2012, right on up thru the present. hopefully you can understand how we might have had to do a double take when folks told us they were having issues. not using that as an excuse. just sharing the barometer i was working with as to the health of the room and what came out of it. the flowers we have going right now are of at least the same grade.

we are yet to see anything that looks like duds from our gear, but we are not about to split hairs with anyone who is unhappy, regardless of where or how the issue started. we've changed out all our stock yet again. the plants being used for sharing are being kept at an off-site location. so if anyone has had an issue, they can feel free to contact me so we might discuss and correct it.

TOU, privacy, and security all dictate that these issues are more appropriate for PM or my personal thread at the very least. let's keep this one dealing with the general phenomenon of duds.

 

[sunset limited]

Yep...something fishy about distributing "substandard clones".

sounds like a great name for a collaborative project. i'm gonna call TGA right now and see what they think. lulz

 

[EclipseFour20]

In a perfect world of "customer service": "Proactive actions" are preferred to "re-active actions". But the worst of all worlds will always be "no action".

At least that is what this old guy thinks!

 

[IGROWMYOWN]

you know, i'm right here and i can hear you.

yes, it was after. upwards of two years after we had issues and had corrected them. and the only thing in common in the room between then and when those cuts were distributed is the address. all the equipment had been replaced, as had all the stock. it's not like it was a week or a month earlier and i was taking it on faith that things were ducky before shit went public.

does this look dudded to you?
[URL=https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3747/12361904523_a128776a30_o.jpg]View Image[/url]
it didn't to me. still doesn't, even after a half dozen folks (out of hundreds) came forward to say they have not gotten similar results from their clones. this was taken on 2/7—a day before the la cup. these flowers came from the same round of cuts that everyone got. and this the grade of material we consistently have produced since we got rid of the mites in 2012, right on up thru the present. hopefully you can understand how we might have had to do a double take when folks told us they were having issues. not using that as an excuse. just sharing the barometer i was working with as to the health of the room and what came out of it. the flowers we have going right now are of at least the same grade.

we are yet to see anything that looks like duds from our gear, but we are not about to split hairs with anyone who is unhappy, regardless of where or how the issue started. we've changed out all our stock yet again. the plants being used for sharing are being kept at an off-site location. so if anyone has had an issue, they can feel free to contact me so we might discuss and correct it.

TOU, privacy, and security all dictate that these issues are more appropriate for PM or my personal thread at the very least. let's keep this one dealing with the general phenomenon of duds.

 

[Storm Shadow]

 

[Storm Shadow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFzXaFbxDcM

 

[KushConnoisseur]

View Image

Damn, bugs just a few months ago. Craziness.

 

[mojave green]

who woulda thunk it?