So those aren't Dr greenthumb genetics then right? I'm confused
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dr. greenthumb
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jack hairy
Member
I did not get them from dr greenthumb,
but i would assume that is exactly what they are.
Jim ortega is supposedly the guy who got the g13 to dr greenthumb.
but i would assume that is exactly what they are.
Jim ortega is supposedly the guy who got the g13 to dr greenthumb.
thegambler
Active member
The pic's included here show the the plants needed at least another couple of weeks to judge the quality fairly.
thegambler
Active member
Sorry, I meant the 90's, not the 80's....my mistake.
thegambler
Active member
You can basically learn the truth, if you are willing to spend the time finding Nevils old seed catalogs on the net, and also find comments and posts by other breeders that were working with Nevil at that time. I've even found comments regarding the facts by Nevil himself at other sites. But almost all of them agree their memories may be clouded by the haze of the smoke........
When I grew it, Nevil's straight G13, it's appearance was all indica, around 5.5 ft tall, rubbery leaves and a MONSTER center cola about the size of a 2 liter bottle. Mine were going almost 9.5-10 weeks to finish properly. I used to put them in the dark for 3-4 days at the end to help them finish off. Again, I was much more interested in his Northern Lights hybrids at that time so my only interest in the G13 was weight, not necessarily quality.
Here's one of the articles I was referring to:
http://www.seedsman.com/en/origins-of-g13/
When I grew it, Nevil's straight G13, it's appearance was all indica, around 5.5 ft tall, rubbery leaves and a MONSTER center cola about the size of a 2 liter bottle. Mine were going almost 9.5-10 weeks to finish properly. I used to put them in the dark for 3-4 days at the end to help them finish off. Again, I was much more interested in his Northern Lights hybrids at that time so my only interest in the G13 was weight, not necessarily quality.
Here's one of the articles I was referring to:
http://www.seedsman.com/en/origins-of-g13/
Last edited:
thegambler
Active member
My very last post on the matter...
My very last post on the matter...
TexasKid, a well known and very respected poster on a number of sites had a write up years ago, and the following is a copy of his response to the matter....I'd probably take this to the bank as the most accurate version, unless Nevil posts to the contrary, since Sandy has long passed on:
G13 History
The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans. A couple of the plants intro'd early into both programs brought a near fatal vunerabilty to grey mold. Both programs had to backtrack while new afgans were found to replace the culled plants, as well as beginig an extensive tourure testing program for the remaning stock. Sandy had a group of friends, growers who lived in his area (S.Ark-N Miss) One of these friends was a grower, and first year botany student who had, by shear accident, landed a job working with Carlton Turner , who ran the US gov. pot program @ U of Miss. Sandy's friends job? using the early,rather primitive tests they had at the time to test Afganica plants for THC level! As Sandy's Early Girl program in the MW and the Skunk#1 people in Cali were on a desperate search for Afganicas. Sandy enlisted his friend to send him anything "interesting". Sandy's friend sent him 23 plants in all, and to differetiate these from his regular Afgani stock, which he labeled A1, A2 etc., Sandy designated his "government" plants G1-23. None of these were used in any Sacred Seeds breeding program. Sandy saved only a very few of these G clones, among these was G-13. He was to busy and never had a chance to do anything with it, so it stayed on the shelf. But he saved it knowing it was a special plant, a "sport". In its pure form it was apparently not very pleasant smoke, tasting like lawn clippings, soaked in a mixture of urine and feces (fecal flavors are common in pure afganicas) with a lovelly aftertaste of burning tires. The shear power could not be denied however and that's what made the strain's rep. As I sayed, G-13 was a breeders plant, (see MJ Botony p70) for a description of a sport but basically it's a plant that shows benificial mutations which can be passed down to the next gen. In the case of G-13 it was a scraglly plant with lowish yields, but it had the desirable trait of massive resin production. So much so, that if you let it go to long it could supposedly choke itself. Some sativas can do this, what Shanti calls the "Widow" sport is an example, but it's very rare in an indica. It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden. Nevil returned to Holland and made three crosses with G-13 @ the Seed Bank. G-13x Haze (in catolog only 1 yr, discontinued, no extent P1's) G-13x Hashplant (discontinued, currently Sensi Seeds: mr nice) G-13x Skunk#1 (last and, according to Nevil, the best of the G crosses. Nev gave Shanti the last of this stock. Shanti, after suffering alarmingly low germ rates initially from the 20 year old seeds, put them though a number of breeding cycles and you all lucky bastarts are beta testing the results.) Sandy Wienstein passed away in 1987. If you have the '88 edition of Mel's Indoor Guide, then you have Mel's wonderfull euligy to his friend.(Mel was part of the upstate NY group, which was a sattelitte of Sandy's midwest group. Mel and Co. were not breeders but the ran beta grows for Sandy's Early Girl proj. Just look pic's captioned Durban poison x Afgani in upstate NY from any of mel's books.) For those who don't have this vintage edition, just turn your copy of Mel's Deluxe MJ grow guide to the back cover. The guy in the red pendelton shirt and the long hair and shades, Thats Sandy. You owe him more than you know P.S. No more than a few weeks after Sandy's death in 1987, all of Nevil's G-13 cuttings went down, including safety clones he had kept in remote places. The plants just wilted and died, despite the best efforts made to save them. No cause was ever found As for the f2s well they cant be f2s mate becouse if you or eny one researchet things ( just stateing facts nothing personal clips as your a good guy and you know i respect you) people whould know that the last ever x of the G13 clone Nevile had ( the only g13 clone in the industry at that ) the g13/sk seeds shanti was given were f1s as they came from Nevile who used the sk male over the G13 clone before it was lost ( Sed to be the best X useing the G13 of all neviles g13 hybreeds as it exprest itself best in this x sed by nevile )so that makes what ever people are makeing and passing around far from f2s and with out knowing what to select for there takeing the line further from what it should be so maybe why there getting more sativa phinos in there generations wich are not f2s mate .
I am only talking for my self here i would never speek for shanti and as i do research things and its all there for people to work out also for them selfs if they wont to mate but im thinking few did becouse if people did they would know shanti selected us the testers to give an honest report be it good or bad on the test strains and as a collective type group help each other and shanti with these strains like they do with flowers like rose clubs or even people working together to save old wold fruiet and veggys who are scated around the world yet work together as a collective group. jesse turner still shared cuts with others[canadian,univerity of washington,ohio and cple others] but there is only one g13 and nevil owns it .now the chance to be assosiated with others on the net very slim and doubtfull with the info nom has posted clears alot up .before ya speak read and investigate i put plenty of information up in breeding forum on the closed post to support what ive said. Nom de fleur my sentiments are the same as muggles as 20 plus years here growing and im a 3rd generational my family has been in growing since before the 40's .i cant wait to enjoy and try shanti's and nevils good works till then enjoy and ill chat ya later clips more info to be considered canada's conection to miss research Did you have a relationship with Dr. Carlton Turner?s research group at the University of Mississippi?
Indeed we had cordial relationships with Dr. Turner and the Mississippi group for many years, exchanging information and keeping each other abreast of developments. As you know, after his work on Cannabis Dr. Turner went on to occupy the prestigious position of Domestic Policy Advisor to the president of the US. We used a Mexican strain supplied by Dr. Turner to grow a large supply of standardized medicinal marihuana in Ottawa for Canadian use. Climatic conditions in Mississippi and Canada are of course different - a longer, hotter, drier situation in Mississippi, and this resulted in the plants in Mississippi tending to be taller, with much more leaf fall, leaving the remaining younger leaves with higher THC content on the plants. Nevertheless, morphological and chemical characteristics tended to be comparable between the two.
My very last post on the matter...
TexasKid, a well known and very respected poster on a number of sites had a write up years ago, and the following is a copy of his response to the matter....I'd probably take this to the bank as the most accurate version, unless Nevil posts to the contrary, since Sandy has long passed on:
G13 History
The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans. A couple of the plants intro'd early into both programs brought a near fatal vunerabilty to grey mold. Both programs had to backtrack while new afgans were found to replace the culled plants, as well as beginig an extensive tourure testing program for the remaning stock. Sandy had a group of friends, growers who lived in his area (S.Ark-N Miss) One of these friends was a grower, and first year botany student who had, by shear accident, landed a job working with Carlton Turner , who ran the US gov. pot program @ U of Miss. Sandy's friends job? using the early,rather primitive tests they had at the time to test Afganica plants for THC level! As Sandy's Early Girl program in the MW and the Skunk#1 people in Cali were on a desperate search for Afganicas. Sandy enlisted his friend to send him anything "interesting". Sandy's friend sent him 23 plants in all, and to differetiate these from his regular Afgani stock, which he labeled A1, A2 etc., Sandy designated his "government" plants G1-23. None of these were used in any Sacred Seeds breeding program. Sandy saved only a very few of these G clones, among these was G-13. He was to busy and never had a chance to do anything with it, so it stayed on the shelf. But he saved it knowing it was a special plant, a "sport". In its pure form it was apparently not very pleasant smoke, tasting like lawn clippings, soaked in a mixture of urine and feces (fecal flavors are common in pure afganicas) with a lovelly aftertaste of burning tires. The shear power could not be denied however and that's what made the strain's rep. As I sayed, G-13 was a breeders plant, (see MJ Botony p70) for a description of a sport but basically it's a plant that shows benificial mutations which can be passed down to the next gen. In the case of G-13 it was a scraglly plant with lowish yields, but it had the desirable trait of massive resin production. So much so, that if you let it go to long it could supposedly choke itself. Some sativas can do this, what Shanti calls the "Widow" sport is an example, but it's very rare in an indica. It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden. Nevil returned to Holland and made three crosses with G-13 @ the Seed Bank. G-13x Haze (in catolog only 1 yr, discontinued, no extent P1's) G-13x Hashplant (discontinued, currently Sensi Seeds: mr nice) G-13x Skunk#1 (last and, according to Nevil, the best of the G crosses. Nev gave Shanti the last of this stock. Shanti, after suffering alarmingly low germ rates initially from the 20 year old seeds, put them though a number of breeding cycles and you all lucky bastarts are beta testing the results.) Sandy Wienstein passed away in 1987. If you have the '88 edition of Mel's Indoor Guide, then you have Mel's wonderfull euligy to his friend.(Mel was part of the upstate NY group, which was a sattelitte of Sandy's midwest group. Mel and Co. were not breeders but the ran beta grows for Sandy's Early Girl proj. Just look pic's captioned Durban poison x Afgani in upstate NY from any of mel's books.) For those who don't have this vintage edition, just turn your copy of Mel's Deluxe MJ grow guide to the back cover. The guy in the red pendelton shirt and the long hair and shades, Thats Sandy. You owe him more than you know P.S. No more than a few weeks after Sandy's death in 1987, all of Nevil's G-13 cuttings went down, including safety clones he had kept in remote places. The plants just wilted and died, despite the best efforts made to save them. No cause was ever found As for the f2s well they cant be f2s mate becouse if you or eny one researchet things ( just stateing facts nothing personal clips as your a good guy and you know i respect you) people whould know that the last ever x of the G13 clone Nevile had ( the only g13 clone in the industry at that ) the g13/sk seeds shanti was given were f1s as they came from Nevile who used the sk male over the G13 clone before it was lost ( Sed to be the best X useing the G13 of all neviles g13 hybreeds as it exprest itself best in this x sed by nevile )so that makes what ever people are makeing and passing around far from f2s and with out knowing what to select for there takeing the line further from what it should be so maybe why there getting more sativa phinos in there generations wich are not f2s mate .
I am only talking for my self here i would never speek for shanti and as i do research things and its all there for people to work out also for them selfs if they wont to mate but im thinking few did becouse if people did they would know shanti selected us the testers to give an honest report be it good or bad on the test strains and as a collective type group help each other and shanti with these strains like they do with flowers like rose clubs or even people working together to save old wold fruiet and veggys who are scated around the world yet work together as a collective group. jesse turner still shared cuts with others[canadian,univerity of washington,ohio and cple others] but there is only one g13 and nevil owns it .now the chance to be assosiated with others on the net very slim and doubtfull with the info nom has posted clears alot up .before ya speak read and investigate i put plenty of information up in breeding forum on the closed post to support what ive said. Nom de fleur my sentiments are the same as muggles as 20 plus years here growing and im a 3rd generational my family has been in growing since before the 40's .i cant wait to enjoy and try shanti's and nevils good works till then enjoy and ill chat ya later clips more info to be considered canada's conection to miss research Did you have a relationship with Dr. Carlton Turner?s research group at the University of Mississippi?
Indeed we had cordial relationships with Dr. Turner and the Mississippi group for many years, exchanging information and keeping each other abreast of developments. As you know, after his work on Cannabis Dr. Turner went on to occupy the prestigious position of Domestic Policy Advisor to the president of the US. We used a Mexican strain supplied by Dr. Turner to grow a large supply of standardized medicinal marihuana in Ottawa for Canadian use. Climatic conditions in Mississippi and Canada are of course different - a longer, hotter, drier situation in Mississippi, and this resulted in the plants in Mississippi tending to be taller, with much more leaf fall, leaving the remaining younger leaves with higher THC content on the plants. Nevertheless, morphological and chemical characteristics tended to be comparable between the two.
jack hairy
Member
Well, one glaring error right off the top of my head is that more than 3 crosses were made with the g13 before it was lost.
More things were made than what was offered for sale.
gambler, you take this as the truth but overlook the part where it says "scraggly low yeilder"?
How did you get "nevils straight g13"?
and this is in the 90s (not 80s) after sandy died and all the known g13 died?
too many things you say just are not the truth and its obvious. it may be simple mistakes..forgetting dates and such.
lots of good insights there but lots of it doesnt make sense, maybe from being out of context and part of a separate conversation we are not seeing.
the section talking about the f2s is unclear to what they are talking about.
Thanks for posting it, i know ive read most of that somewhere else before.
id like to figure out what it was you actually grew and when, then hear a little about its characteristics.
More things were made than what was offered for sale.
gambler, you take this as the truth but overlook the part where it says "scraggly low yeilder"?
How did you get "nevils straight g13"?
and this is in the 90s (not 80s) after sandy died and all the known g13 died?
too many things you say just are not the truth and its obvious. it may be simple mistakes..forgetting dates and such.
lots of good insights there but lots of it doesnt make sense, maybe from being out of context and part of a separate conversation we are not seeing.
the section talking about the f2s is unclear to what they are talking about.
Thanks for posting it, i know ive read most of that somewhere else before.
id like to figure out what it was you actually grew and when, then hear a little about its characteristics.
thegambler
Active member
I did the "pure" G13 in 1988..... I remember the room, a big walk in closet in a rented apt, and I know the time as I was selling and sold a 3 store retail chain I owned. Just a few plants of that, mainly was doing N.L. 5 X 2.
In 1989, I did 2 runs of G13 X Hash Plant- it's was extremely popular at that time as everyone was talking about it G13 this and that. To be honest, I don't ever remember anything sativa-like when I grew these out. Full blown indica structure, one extremely large center cola, rubbery and thick leaves, gigantic sun leaves and thick stems- not a "pretty" plant IMO.
In 1989, I did 2 runs of G13 X Hash Plant- it's was extremely popular at that time as everyone was talking about it G13 this and that. To be honest, I don't ever remember anything sativa-like when I grew these out. Full blown indica structure, one extremely large center cola, rubbery and thick leaves, gigantic sun leaves and thick stems- not a "pretty" plant IMO.
mainewaxworks
Member
no smell or taste imo buds were very dark i remember g13 x hashplant comin across the canadian border around 92 really dense almost black resin filled hard to roll a joint got you real stoned
eatUR<3out
Member
Hey gambler, here's an opposing view to that story from SamS, located in the questions on original haze thread authored by bigherb.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1553919&postcount=203
thegambler
Active member
Yup, I believe I've seen that previously elsewhere.....it's funny though, I was re-reading some posts by Nevil and he's the first to say they were all SO high for so long, that many of the facts are just a jumbled mess now looking back over 30 years ago. It does appear, that the 100% truth will never be known for sure, but it's fun trying to piece together the bits and pieces. There was another excellent article written some time ago by one Wernard Bruining, who I think started Positronics, about the Amsterdam breeder relationships and strain sharing (including G13) that I'm searching for.
Nevil posts on the Mr. Nice forum too, and I going back thru some of those too searching for G13 specific comments. The search continues.
I also wanted to mention that J. Hairy's stuff if some of the nicest I've seen, but different than my personal experience. Nice job though keeping the pheno's alive!
Nevil posts on the Mr. Nice forum too, and I going back thru some of those too searching for G13 specific comments. The search continues.
I also wanted to mention that J. Hairy's stuff if some of the nicest I've seen, but different than my personal experience. Nice job though keeping the pheno's alive!
thegambler
Active member
Another good (but long) read about G13....
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/6-breeders-support-information/162-g13.html
Interesting, I also just found a response from Nevil on another thread on Mr. Nice that Nevil comments about the G13 not really being that strong potency wise but had other traits he wanted to keep and hybridize. Easy to find if you search for it.
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/6-breeders-support-information/162-g13.html
Interesting, I also just found a response from Nevil on another thread on Mr. Nice that Nevil comments about the G13 not really being that strong potency wise but had other traits he wanted to keep and hybridize. Easy to find if you search for it.
jack hairy
Member
ive read every post nevil posted at mns. every single word. many multiple times.
I prefer sativas, ive grown a couple so i know what they are.
when i call the g13 pheno "sativa", its not like it is actually anything like a sativa.
just a little taller with lighter green color and not as dense. it took about one week longer to mature.
so how did you come across the "pure" g13 in '88?
as it was a clone, there was no pure g13 from seed, or it was a hybrid. i dont think anyone was making selfed plants back then.
unless you got a hold of the clone itself.
which is entirely a possibility as it was in the us before nevil got his hands on it.
i dont necessarily believe that it died out just because nevils died, other people may have had it and had better luck.
I prefer sativas, ive grown a couple so i know what they are.
when i call the g13 pheno "sativa", its not like it is actually anything like a sativa.
just a little taller with lighter green color and not as dense. it took about one week longer to mature.
so how did you come across the "pure" g13 in '88?
as it was a clone, there was no pure g13 from seed, or it was a hybrid. i dont think anyone was making selfed plants back then.
unless you got a hold of the clone itself.
which is entirely a possibility as it was in the us before nevil got his hands on it.
i dont necessarily believe that it died out just because nevils died, other people may have had it and had better luck.
thegambler
Active member
I ordered straight G13 seeds from Nevil....check out his "Seed Bank" catalog from 1988 and you'll see them listed in there. In 1989, that's when the G13/Hash Plant started being offered with no more straight G13 in the catalog. That's why in an earlier post, I assumed Neville was back-crossing the strain since he only had clones of it- and did whatever he had to to get male pollen from it. Thus, straight G13 seeds. I also believe they were regular seeds, not feminized and sold for around $60 for 10, which was quite pricey back then.
Some of the articles info is faulty, but there are some bits and pieces that are true.
Some of the articles info is faulty, but there are some bits and pieces that are true.
thegambler
Active member
I guess I'm going to have to find the catalog to prove it to you.....I found it online I think using Bing a few nights ago and will look for it later tonight. My old catalogs and grow books are currently in a buddies garage from a "house clean out", if you get my drift but still readily available......
Look for "Nevil's The Seed Bank catalog" if you want to search it yourself......
Look for "Nevil's The Seed Bank catalog" if you want to search it yourself......
The Doc has just become more clever. Instead of his fake 1-2 post shill names, he establishes fake names with 40 -60 posts or more so they appear "legit".
People have been getting ripped off by the Doc for a long time, many years. Way back in the early Overgrow days, good Canadians were warning others about the Doc, pissed off over his "Niagara" strain which was garbage.
Many, many legit reports of what a scam artist the Doc is have been reported for years. Anybody that sends that crook any $$$ at this point deserves to get ripped off.
Carpe Diem.
N
NewAgeGenetics
I like his iranian crosses... good stuff.
jack hairy
Member
that will be interesting to see. ive never heard or seen any pure g13 seeds talked about. if there were pure seeds available, then it all wouldnt have died out because of one clone. there would have been male g13s, and f2's and beyond.
I was given a cut called g-13 in 1994. It was just like the picture I showed with the red cup. I bought the shwag I posted pics of from Doc and never bought another thing from him sense.
I ran to date.
Giga Bud (g13 labs)
Chem D cut (thought maybe that is what I had so tried it)
Traquil Elphantizer and the Re-mix (bodhi)
G13-Hashplant from all three Tre Farmer, HazeMan, NDN
Doc's of Course
HazeMan's g-13 bx
And none of these were what I had back in the day. Mine was green/hash that took your breath away and knocked you into next week. hands down the strongest thing Ive ever come across. Pure indica HUGE fans and Slow rooting and not allot of nodes and branches. But when you turned her back and let her finish the yield was HUGE. If You look through SKUNKVA's threads his pics look similar to what I had. Il find a link to his thread and post it here and see what you guys think.
Jack I can understand naming phones with what it reminds you of. Or makes you remember them. I was just curious what was what is all. They look really nice for sure.
I ran to date.
Giga Bud (g13 labs)
Chem D cut (thought maybe that is what I had so tried it)
Traquil Elphantizer and the Re-mix (bodhi)
G13-Hashplant from all three Tre Farmer, HazeMan, NDN
Doc's of Course
HazeMan's g-13 bx
And none of these were what I had back in the day. Mine was green/hash that took your breath away and knocked you into next week. hands down the strongest thing Ive ever come across. Pure indica HUGE fans and Slow rooting and not allot of nodes and branches. But when you turned her back and let her finish the yield was HUGE. If You look through SKUNKVA's threads his pics look similar to what I had. Il find a link to his thread and post it here and see what you guys think.
Jack I can understand naming phones with what it reminds you of. Or makes you remember them. I was just curious what was what is all. They look really nice for sure.
N
NewAgeGenetics
Pukka's G13 fem was real S1 I think.
the price was crazy but very very potent.
the price was crazy but very very potent.
