DP Fem Orange Bud from seed, 220watt HPS/CFL

[waydee]

Hello all, since I decided to start this grow project i've kept a thread in the micro grows section, figured since i've now started proper i'd get a thread going here to document the progress.

Cabinet planning/building thread is here for anyone interested: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42947

Basic details are as follows:

Lighting:
2x70watt security lights, stripped and mounted
4x20watt CFLs mounted just below HPS lamps

Ventilation:
125mm Systemair RVK inline and carbon filter
Cabinet is 27.5" wide, 14" deep and 34" tall, 2 passive intakes and notches cut out of shelf to provide passage for air to travel up the cab and out of the carbon filter.

Medium:
Seedlings are currently in a relatively cheap compost mix, doesn't seem to be causing any problems yet - need to find some perlite stat though! having trouble tracking it down locally and my car is broken so i'm kinda stuck right now, still the compost is actually pretty airy - there are small twigs and what looks like pieces of perlite or vermiculite in there, I might just get by without any extra perlite.
edit: Medium is now Guanokalong all-mix

Nutes:
Nutes are as yet undecided, likely bio bizz grow/bloom since I can get that easily locally. Was considering picking up a bottle of PK13/14 too, good idea?

Pots:
Pots are your average 9" orange pot, probably just shy of a gallon each. Seedlings are currently in small yoghurt pots until they put out a decent sized set of leaves, then i'll transplant them.

Seeds:
As per thread title, seeds are Dutch Passion Feminised Orange Bud, germed using paper towel method - as you can see i've got one slow one that hasn't broken the surface yet but shes getting there... i'd say shes 2 days behind the other two.



Plants will be scrog grown, each pot has its own individual screen with 16 possible budsites per screen. Undecided as to veg period length, you all know how variable things can be but i'm looking to switch to flowering at around 10" tall and rely on the stretch to fill out the screens.
edit: Screens now joined, plants were vegged for around 4.5 weeks, topped, fimmed and lst'd. Screens put in at around 4 weeks.




If i've forgotten anything obvious just ask love you guys.

 

[waydee]

Since i'm determined to make regular updates, i'll do them no matter how little change I see

this is 6 days from putting the seeds in paper towels by the way, finally the third is beginning to show itself! slow little bugger.

 

[sm0kateer4204]

looking good man.

 

[waydee]

Well guys, looks as if i've made a royal mess of it

Woke up this morning to check the plants and the first one which has shown the most vigor and was ahead of the other two was on its side looking decidedly worse for wear - very dry, i touched it and a cotyledon fell off! they've been watered every second day but it did seem like the soil (at least the top) dried out very quickly, still I didn't want to overwater them so I kept it to every second day. I dont imagine she'll pull through. The second most vigorous seedling is still upright and looks reasonably healthy but has some browning on the very tips of her first leafs - almost like nute burn but they have received no nutes yet. Heat stress? did I have them under the HPS's too early? they were around 6-7" from the HPS and 3-4" from the CFLs.

Third one has shown no change overnight, doesnt look very promising. I put two more seeds in paper towels today since I think i'll need them but if anyone could help me out as to where i've gone wrong it'd be great. Temps could be the issue but it never felt warm enough in there to cause what i've seen, ventilation should be more than adequate, just one thing - i was watering using bottled water, is this bad? i've decided to move to distilled tap water now but could the bottled water be the culprit? they seemed to germinate fine using it.


Also I've turned off the HPS lights, they're just under the cfls now... i've had seedlings under HPS this early before but never this strain, likely culprit?

love you guys.

 

[NG2k]

without pics i cant really say for sure....
was the soil you used preferted? was there a fan directly on them? it could be that it was too soon to have them under that much amount of HPS light... they really need to be brought into the world slowly....
keep us posted

 

[Erin Kerrik]

They don't need the HPS until they have perhaps three sets of leaves. 40W of CFLs will do them fine for three or so weeks. But could also be your compost is still "hot" and the little ones are getting nute burn.

 

[waydee]

I dont believe the soil was preferted but i'll certainly confirm tomorrow when I can get out to the shed, a bit dark out there right now

Yeah im thinking the HPS is the most likely culprit, kicking myself for that one... probably too much too soon, it was like the seedling was trying to turn away from the light. Oh and now the worst of the seedlings has dropped a leaf! I think its dead. Its a very sad sight! interesting to note that the worst seedling has no signs of burn at all apart from the cotyledons being very dry and crispy (before they fell off of course).

Was I watering enough? like i said the soil seems to dry out very quickly, and all this happened overnight - when I went to sleep they looked fine, this morning one is dead!

It's a real kick in the teeth, I always thought I had something of an affinity with plants! these are proving that wrong

 

[unknownone]

Hey waydee:

Seems like you may be missing a bunch of stuff, and may have some serious issues with your grow.

I didn't like the sound of your soil, for starters. Sounds like a lot of bark and peat, which is bad, especially the bark and twigs. You need perlite in there, very important, like 3:1 to 2:1 soil to perlite. Get Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil if you can. See my thread in the Cannabis Infirmary on how this saved my seedlings from problems that may be similar to yours.

You also need to get a hold on the temps in your cab, looking for 75 to 80 F. I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. Sounds like your ventilation setup is good. Putting them under that small of an HPS should be fine - I veg mine under a 400W. Just make sure temps are ok.

You may be overwatering every other day, but with those small yogurt containers may be ok. Use the weigh-in-hand method mentioned throughout these forums. I water once a week, but my veg setup is a large 1' X 2' bin holding 9 seedlings.

You need to get a handle on your pH. Go on ebay, you can get a digital meter for about $40. It is very worth it.

Don't worry about nutes yet at this age of seedlings.

I think the problem is your soil, IMO.

Good luck.

 

[NG2k]

if you have a strong fan blowing directly on your seedlings then the leaves themselves will dry out quicker meaning they will need watering more often than usual. i only suggest this as you mentioned the leaves being crispy and falling off..... fans shouldnt be direct on young 'uns.
definitely invest in a PH meter, not as necessary in soil, but very very handy. and perlite is a definite must! its cheap and easy to find so mix it at about 30% Perlite to 70% soil .
also it doesnt matter whether you put 400W of HPS or 20W of CFL on those seedlings but its how close you have the lights. 6-7" for 220W of mixed spec light, may be too close.
any chance of some pictures?
NG2k

 

[waydee]

I believe my local hydro store has Bio-Biz All Mix soil - I think that is all they carry, would you recommend it? i've had a look through some cannabis infirmary threads and see similar problems to mine caused by various soils. If the all-mix is fine I will pick up a bag tomorrow, along with some perlite if I can find it. Is there a good alternative to perlite if I cannot find any? its not a big hydro store and i'm not sure how much stuff they carry for soil growing.

Would it be a good idea to order some more seeds also? I have two more orange buds in paper towels but I get the feeling the two I have in the pots aren't going to pull through if the dead seedling is anything to go by. I am restricted to feminised seeds unfortunately, I do not have the space to grow enough plants to preflower - i need 3 guaranteed females and have no source of clones. Are femaleseeds seeds a good bet?

Thanks.

 

[NG2k]

bio-bizz soil is very good stuff. if they have soil they will hav perlite to, probably only in 100 litre bags tho. some garden centres sell in bags as small as 5L.
why not just carry on with the seeds you got at the moment. no point forking out extra cash because you WILL run into problems until you got a few grows under your belt. happens to everyone.
stick with femaleseeds if you feel you have to, cant say whether theres any problem with them as ive never used them. but worst case ive heard of is one turning hermie, then all you gotta do is chop it down... annoying but not too much of a hassle (unles its your only one)
Peace

 

[waydee]

I have read up on the All Mix and they say it has 30% perlite - would this be sufficient or would I need more?

I presume since they carry All Mix they will carry the Grow and Bloom nutes for it too, I admit I cheaped out when it came to the compost and its bitten me in the ass I think!

 

[waydee]

I got this picture of the surviving seedling, doesnt look good and i found it really hard to get a focused picture of such a small plant but this is the best of the bunch:

From what i've read this is nute burn and possibly a ph issue also (curled leaves), am I correct?

 

[unknownone]

I don't think that is nute burn as you have not added any nutes yet (right?) and at that young age they don't show burn. My suspicion is your soil is very wet, has no aeration, and the pH is off. Fix your soil and your problems should get better quick.

 

[NG2k]

well, i have known seedlings to burn when using compost that i thought was unferted but was actually VERY VERY hot .... so its a possibility. definitely not enough aeration in the soil.... do those yoghurt pots have holes in the bottom !?!?!?!?!?!?!

if all-mix has 30% perlite in then get that. i knew a little was added but that should really do the job, extra perlite is always a saviour to the new grower so if they got some small bags i would recommend getting that too...
one other thing you got to take into account, roots only really grow in dry soil as they grow in search of moisture, therefore if the soil is wet.... the roots wont grow and you will "suffocate" them of air. even if you get a better soil mix and use perlite.... DONT OVERWATER. and by that i mean frequency, not volume of water. water until a little water runs out the bottom and then wait until the soil is dry again before watering again. if theres always water in the pot the roots will never grow or breath either. water sparingly......

 

[waydee]

Yes there is holes in the pots, i've done this a couple of times before but I figure I must have just got lucky with cheap soil before!

I'm seeing no growth at all, even the very slow third seedling is still to properly break the surface and open its cotyledons - it has to be the soil.

Will be going to the hydro store tomorrow to pick up some all-mix, some extra perlite if they have smallish bags and some grow/bloom nutes for later... the two seeds i have in paper towels are showing ~5mm foxtails already so they should be fine to put straight into the new all-mix.


Thanks guys, i'll keep you updated as to wether this solves my problems!

edit: its a shame i dont have time to order this stuff online, going to hydro shops really gets me paranoid! and i've not smoked for at least a month lol, it just seems so obvious, a young guy buying soil and ferts in hydro shop that is... might as well just shout out the fact i'm trying to grow pot.

 

[unknownone]

Yeah I know what you mean. You should be fine though, buying and selling grow equiptment is legal.

I have gone to mine twice and was a little noided out. I usually park at a nearby store and then walk over. I am lucky that mine is in a different state.

 

[NG2k]

ok good. i just realised that you would get pretty much the same result if there was no holes in the pot and wondered if there was.
over here in the UK, hydro-shops are pretty much everywhere, i dont know where you are from tho waydee. and its pretty safe to walk into one, i do park at a different car park, just to be safe. i know what you mean tho, when i first started growin i was a bit scared and i used to cycle through the woods on the way back to be safe..... never would a stopped me on that :wink:.
if your getting allmix, get bio-bloom and bio-grow aswell to suit. theres a chart somewhere from bio-bizz that gives u a nute-schedule, wont be precisely accurate for your strain but its pretty general. ill find it somewhere for u.
Peace

 

[waydee]

UK as well man, you're right... there seems to be hydro shops springing up everywhere, im just overly paranoid I think good thing its a ten minute walk, I just take a big bag and try to make it as quick a visit as possible.

Yeah i've seen that nute schedule, i'll have to look it up.

cheers guys

 

[NG2k]

here it is aswell as the HPS distance chart.
north/south UK?
what were your previous grows i cant seem to see.