Does LEDs really yield the same as their "HPS equivalent"

[bigpeter]

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Spider farmer 2000 in a 36x18 inch closet gave me 234 grams from 1 plant scrogged. 1.17 GPW. [/FONT]

 

[TPFTFW]

I think the old heads just got tired of saying it, so I'm just going to say it, there's no such thing as 3gpw, it's just people on the internet lieing.

Look at grows from top commercial growers, there yield is always around 1gpw maybe close to 2gpw for super high yielding strains.

I'm not claiming to be a master but I've known a few and have grown in enough different styles to know bullshit when I smell it.

So it's one of two things either people lieing through there teeth or a very different perspective on what dry means.

I was using it as an example, not a standard..
I agree 3gpw is far fetched with today’s tech at least
However LED’s and the level they’re at are pushing the envelope in efficiency/ppfd/par even if it’s not that dramatic

I just wanna get 3lb’s a light

Is that so much to ask.. lol (heavy sarcasm)

that’s 2.1 GPW with my light and I see that as an impossible feat

edit: what is very relevant tho and I should mention is cross lighting
the bigger the grow, the more cross lighting, the higher the yields will be generally

I don’t expect to go over 1.5 gpw with this harvest

 

[Chevy cHaze]

It depends so much on how dialed in a setup is, but if even and idiot like myself can easily reach 1.5g/w, it's a clear yes to your question.
Of course the most productive growing style is a different one... with LEDs you will pull more if you scrog your plant(s) as LEDs don't pack as much punch in terms of penetration.
A couple years ago, there were a lot of fixtures with 3w or even 5w diodes around, they were comparable to HID lights, but unfortunately not just for the punch but also for the heat produced.
Now, with QBs around, you want an even canopy and the lights closer to the tops, so a scrog is what you're looking for to maximise yields...



CC

 

[ozzieAI]

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Spider farmer 2000 in a 36x18 inch closet gave me 234 grams from 1 plant scrogged. 1.17 GPW. [/FONT]

nice looking scrog...did you keep the light that far from the canopy?

gpw gives people a simple base line to work with and find that methods used to grow make a contribution ie: area, hydro/soil etc, strain used...

 

[TPFTFW]

gpw gives people a simple base line to work with and find that methods used to grow make a contribution ie: area, hydro/soil etc, strain used...

excellent


also does anyone know what the difference between lm301B and lm301H are on a functional level?

 

[bigpeter]

nice looking scrog...did you keep the light that far from the canopy?

.

The light was 28 inches above the plant when it was a seedling and as the plant grew it was around 18 inches at harvest. I grew it in coco drain to waste in a smartpot.

 

[ozzieAI]

The light was 28 inches above the plant when it was a seedling and as the plant grew it was around 18 inches at harvest. I grew it in coco drain to waste in a smartpot.

as a suggestion try closing that distance somewhat and you could get a better result ie a bigger plant sooner as well as bigger buds...if it was me i would be starting at 18 inches...

if you can able to manage your environment effectively you can also increase canopy density...a weeks extra training or so can lead to significant returns come harvest time...

 

[Brother Nature]

excellent


also does anyone know what the difference between lm301B and lm301H are on a functional level?

The 'h's are for "horticultural applications". Apparently they're slightly more efficient.

Samsung Sets New Photon Efficacy Level in White LED Packages for Indoor Farms
Korea on April 23, 2019

High photon efficacy allows more light to reach plants for healthier growth
and enables indoor farms to save on energy costs
Samsung Electronics, a world leader in advanced digital component solutions, today announced an industry-leading enhancement to its mid-power LED package – the LM301H – for horticulture applications, such as greenhouse and vertical farming*. At 3.10 micromoles per joule (?mol/J), the newly introduced LM301H now features the highest photon efficacy** among today’s mid-power white LED packages.



“This breakthrough in photon efficacy will go a long way in helping indoor farm owners to maximize plant growth and quality, as well as their profits,” said Un Soo Kim, senior vice president of LED Business Team at Samsung Electronics. “We are committed to continue innovating white LED solutions optimized for healthier plant production as we solidify our leadership in the horticulture lighting industry.”



As a result of this industry-leading photon efficacy, lighting manufacturers can use 30 percent fewer packages in each luminaire to achieve the same efficacy level as the previous version of the LM301H, allowing for smaller and lighter lamp designs as well as lowered manufacturing costs. In addition, by using the same number of packages, the light efficiency of a luminaire can be improved by at least four percent, enabling indoor farms to reduce their energy use.



Samsung is able to achieve this advancement in photon efficacy by optimizing the chip’s light-emitting layer to convert electrical energy into photons with greater efficiency, while an improvement in chip structure minimizes light loss, delivering more light to plants.



Furthermore, thanks to Samsung’s advanced flip-chip design, the LM301H requires no wire bonding, which helps extend the packages’ performance and reliability. Titanium dioxide around the chip also ensures higher durability when exposed to agricultural chemicals.



To promote even more balanced plant growth, the white LM301H packages encompass a broader spectrum of light from blue and green to red, enhancing immunity from plant disease and providing greater nutritional value.



Samsung expects to begin mass producing the new LM301H packages at the end of this month and will be showcasing them at LIGHTFAIR International 2019 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, from May 21 to 23.





LM301H Specification:
Product Size (mm) PPF (?mol/s)*** PE (?mol/J)
LM301H Mid-power
(25?, 65mA, 5000K, CRI80) 3.0 x 3.0 0.56 3.10


* Vertical farming is the practice of growing crops in stacked layers to optimize the use of space. It typically takes place in controlled indoor environments.

** Photon efficacy (PE) indicates the light efficacy level for photosynthesis in plants and is measured in micromoles per joule (?mol/J). Efficacy is the measure of how well a light source produces visible light.

*** Photosynthetic photon flux (PPF) indicates the total amount of photons in the photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) range – a spectral range between 400 and 700nm – that can enhance plant photosynthesis and is measured in micromoles per second (?mol/s).

 

[Horselover Fat]

The 'h's are for "horticultural applications". Apparently they're slightly more efficient.

No. They are the same diode.

 

[ozzieAI]

well all i can say is that QBs rock...and growing in dirt with no Co2 i have friends that get 1.5 to 1.8 g/watt...over 2 is highly impressive...3 is just crazy...

a grower i know went from 600 watt hps to 560 watt QBs in a 4x4 tent and gets a better return, 2+ lb up from 1.2 lb and his overall energy consumption is down due to less climate control...

manipulating the wattage v distance equation is much easier and really allows for the ability to maximise growth at lower wattage and allows for better plant training due to the spread of light...

..my bad..he is not running 560 watts....only 520 watts....
2 x 260 watt QBs @ 3000k, lm301B and Far Red...

 

[mtntrogger]

About a year and a half ago, I ditched the HPS for these from Home Depot. I have 4 in my flowering room. It is bright as hell. I have Jack Herrer, Zamaldelica and Malawi under them. The results are spectacular!!!
With the 4 of them running the temp jumps up to 83-86F. Very nice. Oh yes, these are $99 each and I have NEVER seen them go on sale. Too much demand.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...-000-Lumens-5000K-Daylight-50232161/302456569

I was curious if these worked in flowering. How big is your room ? I was considering the spider farmer sf2000 or 4000 but this would be a nice inexpensive option. Also wondering how you yield with these

 

[Gry]

Neat thread

 

[TPFTFW]

 

[ozzieAI]

even upside down it looks great ^^

 

[TPFTFW]

even upside down it looks great ^^

Haha thanks I know there’s a way to change it I just never bother looking up how to do it before uploading

I’ve been trying to get them as close as possible rn the lights are about a 8”-12” away from the highest tops per light

 

[Cantharellus]

I don't think you will be happy with the results with the leds so close. Some plants can take it but most seem to not like it so much has been my experience.

 

[Chevy cHaze]

Haha thanks I know there’s a way to change it I just never bother looking up how to do it before uploading

I’ve been trying to get them as close as possible rn the lights are about a 8”-12” away from the highest tops per light

Yeah nice work that's how it's supposed to be done. Stretchy little bitches?
8"-12" from the tops you'll be fine and you'll get maximum results with LEDs.
Hope your light pack enough punch for the buds on screen level but it looks like they'Re developing nicely!!!
All the best
CC

 

[Klompen]

My COB lights are far more point-source intense than those sun boards and I have mine waaay closer to the plants than that. I think maybe some strains are fragile, but most of them would love it. The exact focal range of the diode lenses does factor in as well though; some lights are meant to be used further than others. If whatever light you're using has IR or UV in it though, you'll definitely need to give it some distance from the canopy.

I've built my own primary lights using COBs and an odd mix of items(including an aluminum griddle). Even these cheap ass first-gen Chinese COB lights are decimating any results I ever had with even my best HID light(Phillips Mastercolor Retrowhite 400W CMH).

I actually started the seedlings under 2' fluorescent tubes and then quickly switched them to LED flood lights from the hardware store(they are 90W and OMG they are amazing veg lights!). After that I built my first fixture with 150W of COBs on it and then a week or two later got my 300W COB fixture built. Additionally I have a set of three 11W grow lights that are connected together(33W total), and six 6W Zilotek screw-in grow bulbs(impressive, and worth it if found on sale). I also have a Walmart 2' grow light that is red and blue and I think 12W. So all together I have 531W of light in the chamber(which is approximately 9 square feet).

Here is what it all looks like as of yesterday:



Here is a good shot from below the lights:

 

[Cantharellus]

Well I have looked at both of your magnificent grows and defer to you both then LMAO.

 

[TPFTFW]

Yeah nice work that's how it's supposed to be done. Stretchy little bitches?
8"-12" from the tops you'll be fine and you'll get maximum results with LEDs.
Hope your light pack enough punch for the buds on screen level but it looks like they'Re developing nicely!!!
All the best
CC

I have two lights @640 watts
485 watts of 3k, 175 watts of UV and far red each