Does LEDs really yield the same as their "HPS equivalent"

[indagroove]

All the other bins are not 10-15% worse. There are 3 bins there and as little as 5% between top and bottom.
I can't talk about who lies but the Osram red is more efficient than the samsung iirc. Though as your obviously aware the driver can be so inefficient that it makes a good led still part of a bad light.

Inventronics drivers are appearing in HLG's but even 15% headline figures don't mean much when the price gap is so many times greater. I don't think the Mars bar light can use the ELG as they only make them up to 240w. Where they are 93% efficient vs the HLG's 93.5% so it's not a huge gap. Still it's 3w wasted though, between the two types, if they made both that big.

Feel free to show me which series driver you think Mars uses.

I'm not sure how you're reading the chart, but there is more than 5% difference in bins. If you look at 3k as an example the low bin is 34 ?v vs the top bin at 40 ?v, which is a difference of 6 ?v. 6/40=0.15 aka 15%

 

[f-e]

Do you have evidence of a QB288 existing prior to 2016?



View Image

Search results go back to 2011

Google search qb288 then go to tools and select a date range for results.

I have been looking online so all the catalogues and cashed data will be updated by now. I never had a paper copy.

Your link suggests they developed the 304 (which I have not heard of) then they later introduced the 288 to their range. Which is 16x18 to meet a 48v requirement. 3v per led. Introducing something to their range isn't designing it though. 16x18 is standard stuff you find in cobs to. I'm pretty sure they didn't bring it to market.

 

[f-e]

Feel free to show me which series driver you think Mars uses.

I'm not sure how you're reading the chart, but there is more than 5% difference in bins. If you look at 3k as an example the low bin is 34 ?v vs the top bin at 40 ?v, which is a difference of 6 ?v. 6/40=0.15 aka 15%

Bottom bin can be 36 and the top bin 38 which is 2 not 6.
I'm addressing the notion that a different bin is 10-15% worse. Moving between the furthest bins and seeing just 5%.

 

[indagroove]

Bottom bin can be 36 and the top bin 38 which is 2 not 6.
I'm addressing the notion that a different bin is 10-15% worse. Moving between the furthest bins and seeing just 5%.

That's only true if you compare max flux of SJ bins compared to min flux of SL bin. Do you really think that's a fair comparison of 3000k and 3500k diodes? if you compare apples to orages with those two color temp diodes it's really 34 vs 38, which is over a 10% difference. Once you start comparing different color temp diodes the disparities get wider.

 

[indagroove]

Search results go back to 2011

Google search qb288 then go to tools and select a date range for results.

I have been looking online so all the catalogues and cashed data will be updated by now. I never had a paper copy.

Your link suggests they developed the 304 (which I have not heard of) then they later introduced the 288 to their range. Which is 16x18 to meet a 48v requirement. 3v per led. Introducing something to their range isn't designing it though. 16x18 is standard stuff you find in cobs to. I'm pretty sure they didn't bring it to market.

You never heard of the QB304 eh? I guess I'm not surprised.

Hate to tell you but that's not how google searches work. Are you also going to try to tell me that the lm301H diode was around in 2010? The only reason it shows up like that is becaause Alibaba is using recycled links. The google search result shown below for example resolves to https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/grow-light.html which was created in 2010 but likely updated hundreds of times over the years.

 

[zachrockbadenof]

Frankly, Mars lies about their efficiency.

and their warr toooo.... lies...lies...lies...

 

[eyes]

I'm not sure what you mean.
The HLG timeline seems to go from rebranding to cutting corners. First they stopped using the extruded heatsink and switched to a bit of plate. Now they have chopped up the 288 boards and moved the bits around. That looks like the first move towards custom parts, but it's only custom in shape. They use the LM301H now, though a few years late. Along with some reds from an unknown source. Mars use Osram. Mars also use Meanwell while HLG have switched supplier. To me the HLG story is one about selling 'made in the USA' not technical merit.

Chiled: No search results. It's going to be the same LM301 though, with some extra reds and maybe some other unproven colours. There is just no other way of making them unless you get it wrong.

I guess I was saying that the two manufactures punch out their own boards with the diodes they source from korea. Probably so they can make maximum profit.

 

[indagroove]

Bottom bin can be 36 and the top bin 38 which is 2 not 6.
I'm addressing the notion that a different bin is 10-15% worse. Moving between the furthest bins and seeing just 5%.

That's only true if you compare max flux of SJ bins compared to min flux of SL bin. Do you really think that's a fair comparison of 3000k and 3500k diodes? if you compare apples to orages with those two color temp diodes it's really 34 vs 38, which is over a 10% difference. Once you start comparing different color temp diodes the disparities get wider.

Speaking of bin differences, there are not only flux bin differences, there are also forward voltage bin differences. Can you imaging how the cheap knockoffs mixing voltage bins and flux bin all on the same board can cause issues? They really aren't all the same diodes, just because they all have the lm301 name. HLG uses consistent top bins only.

 

[DOTTOR]

Anyone use lumatek zeus 600w pro? I'm undecided between lumatek and gavita 1700e

 

[Koondense]

Lumatek seems to be cheaper, performance is very similar. Not a lot of difference between these two.

Cheers

 

[f-e]

You never heard of the QB304 eh? I guess I'm not surprised.

Hate to tell you but that's not how google searches work. Are you also going to try to tell me that the lm301H diode was around in 2010? The only reason it shows up like that is becaause Alibaba is using recycled links. The google search result shown below for example resolves to https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/grow-light.html which was created in 2010 but likely updated hundreds of times over the years.

View Image

We were talking about 288 boards not diodes. The LM301H is about 3 years old. HLG have used it about a year. That's why I don't keep up with HLG to see them making a 304.

I seem to not be getting this over, but a bin change can amount to nothing more than a photon different. It doesn't have to be 10-15% different. It can be 0.000000000000000.....1% different. What's more important is that you are just guessing any particular supplier might lie but not HLG who we can actually see devolving the China product with plate not finned extrusions. Who is cutting corners here?

Lets pretend the cheaper stuff has done everything wrong and lost you 20% of your light. How much did it also reduce the purchase price. I have paid half with better heatsinks. Nobody knows which diode is in either. The only gauge we have is the plants. Which don't seem to care in anybodies side by side.


Indagroove, who says the original manufacturers are mixing all the bins together? In your mind, surely they wouldn't be using any good ones. They would all be bottom bin which is averaging 10% below the top bin. Same spread within a bin though. So just as well matched.
To hide poor matching you add a resistor to limit the dimming. This is why drivers than can dim to almost nothing are found in units set to 40% minimum. The only time we see poor matching is as they come on very dimly as some light before others. If you have QBs turn them down to see if you are getting full control or questionable equipment. If you do have full control you can see how well matched they are. Some of my cobs have been terrible but my QBs are fine.

 

[Joint Lock]

We were talking about 288 boards not diodes. The LM301H is about 3 years old. HLG have used it about a year. That's why I don't keep up with HLG to see them making a 304.

I seem to not be getting this over, but a bin change can amount to nothing more than a photon different. It doesn't have to be 10-15% different. It can be 0.000000000000000.....1% different. What's more important is that you are just guessing any particular supplier might lie but not HLG who we can actually see devolving the China product with plate not finned extrusions. Who is cutting corners here?

Lets pretend the cheaper stuff has done everything wrong and lost you 20% of your light. How much did it also reduce the purchase price. I have paid half with better heatsinks. Nobody knows which diode is in either. The only gauge we have is the plants. Which don't seem to care in anybodies side by side.


Indagroove, who says the original manufacturers are mixing all the bins together? In your mind, surely they wouldn't be using any good ones. They would all be bottom bin which is averaging 10% below the top bin. Same spread within a bin though. So just as well matched.
To hide poor matching you add a resistor to limit the dimming. This is why drivers than can dim to almost nothing are found in units set to 40% minimum. The only time we see poor matching is as they come on very dimly as some light before others. If you have QBs turn them down to see if you are getting full control or questionable equipment. If you do have full control you can see how well matched they are. Some of my cobs have been terrible but my QBs are fine.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=79539&pictureid=2019106&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

HLGs can be baught for half the price before the name is put on them KingBrite LED and MeiJiu Both sell exact knock offs alot cheaper on Alibaba . Maxsisun PB Series and spider farmer also work just as well. Im running King Brite atm and very impressed . We will really see tho when Bloom takes off were 15 days in atm : Search KingBrite 550 v2 or v3 . V2 is LM301b and V3 is LM301H diodes . 350$ to your door

If u look it gives u option to put your own brand on there or logo if so many or baught or for extra fees . Makes u wonder dont it

 

[indagroove]

We were talking about 288 boards not diodes. The LM301H is about 3 years old. HLG have used it about a year. That's why I don't keep up with HLG to see them making a 304.

I seem to not be getting this over, but a bin change can amount to nothing more than a photon different. It doesn't have to be 10-15% different. It can be 0.000000000000000.....1% different. What's more important is that you are just guessing any particular supplier might lie but not HLG who we can actually see devolving the China product with plate not finned extrusions. Who is cutting corners here?

Lets pretend the cheaper stuff has done everything wrong and lost you 20% of your light. How much did it also reduce the purchase price. I have paid half with better heatsinks. Nobody knows which diode is in either. The only gauge we have is the plants. Which don't seem to care in anybodies side by side.


Indagroove, who says the original manufacturers are mixing all the bins together? In your mind, surely they wouldn't be using any good ones. They would all be bottom bin which is averaging 10% below the top bin. Same spread within a bin though. So just as well matched.
To hide poor matching you add a resistor to limit the dimming. This is why drivers than can dim to almost nothing are found in units set to 40% minimum. The only time we see poor matching is as they come on very dimly as some light before others. If you have QBs turn them down to see if you are getting full control or questionable equipment. If you do have full control you can see how well matched they are. Some of my cobs have been terrible but my QBs are fine.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=79539&pictureid=2019106&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

The only reason I mentioned the lm301h diode is to point out that they appear in Google listings (as you have suggested to search using the tools menu) as far back as 2010, but clearly they didn't exist yet at thay point, even as a prototype. I'm not sure how old the lm301h is to be honest, or exactly who had it first, so we'll leave that for a different debate.

As far as different bins, I really think you should do more real world research before making such assertions. Typically Samsung sells diodes in a specific bin, they don't mix and match. so that speculation you made isn't really a thing. Mars Hydro has openly admitted that they don't use top bin diodes.

Sure, it's possible that a SK bin diode and a SL bin diode could be just .00000001 apart, but that's pretty unlikely, and it's better to work in systems of averages.

As far as costs, I have a DIY setup using HLG QB96 boards, and it's very cost effecient. The heatsinks with those boards are awesome, and the weed grown under them looks and tastes great..

 

[indagroove]

HLGs can be baught for half the price before the name is put on them KingBrite LED and MeiJiu Both sell exact knock offs alot cheaper on Alibaba . Maxsisun PB Series and spider farmer also work just as well. Im running King Brite atm and very impressed . We will really see tho when Bloom takes off were 15 days in atm : Search KingBrite 550 v2 or v3 . V2 is LM301b and V3 is LM301H diodes . 350$ to your door

If u look it gives u option to put your own brand on there or logo if so many or baught or for extra fees . Makes u wonder dont it

That's not true. HLG prints their own QB288's in Michigan. Take a look..

https://youtu.be/FZZhLLdGqCI

 

[sshz]

Week 7 under a Gavita in a 4 x 4 area.

 

[John LOQUE]

The only reason I mentioned the lm301h diode is to point out that they appear in Google listings (as you have suggested to search using the tools menu) as far back as 2010, but clearly they didn't exist yet at thay point, even as a prototype. I'm not sure how old the lm301h is to be honest, or exactly who had it first, so we'll leave that for a different debate.

As far as different bins, I really think you should do more real world research before making such assertions. Typically Samsung sells diodes in a specific bin, they don't mix and match. so that speculation you made isn't really a thing. Mars Hydro has openly admitted that they don't use top bin diodes.

Sure, it's possible that a SK bin diode and a SL bin diode could be just .00000001 apart, but that's pretty unlikely, and it's better to work in systems of averages.

As far as costs, I have a DIY setup using HLG QB96 boards, and it's very cost effecient. The heatsinks with those boards are awesome, and the weed grown under them looks and tastes great..

View Image

Yumm! What strain please?

 

[indagroove]

Yumm! What strain please?

Slurricane from In-House Genetics. (Dosido x Purple Punch)

 

[John LOQUE]

Slurricane from In-House Genetics. (Dosido x Purple Punch)

Thanks. Waouch, expensive seeds!!!

Edit : Actually not that much for female seeds, i bought 70 for 5 reg seeds, and i got only 1 female, so, for elite seeds, why not?
What kind of plant is it? Is it branchy, or focused on one main cola?

 

[indagroove]

Thanks. Waouch, expensive seeds!!!

Edit : Actually not that much for female seeds, i bought 70 for 5 reg seeds, and i got only 1 female, so, for elite seeds, why not?
What kind of plant is it? Is it branchy, or focused on one main cola?

I got mine as a clone, which is making the rounds in Cali. I've been watching other growers grow other phenos, and there does seem to be distinct traits..

Very vigorous, stretches a lot in early flower. Yes, branchy, but I bet you could train for a main cola as well. I do a semi-scrog style with 4 plants in a 4'x4'. Not a huge yielder, but not poor either, and the quality of the buds is worth the sacrifice vs something which will grow massive colas. It doesn't like a lot of nutes, and doesn't like too much light either (although I admittedly pushed it a bit this round, because I was growing it along with Wedding Cake, which likes the opposite). Harvest time can be anywhere between 8 and 10 weeks flowering, depending on your lights, and how done you like it. I use far red end-of-day treatment, so it speeds flowering up at least a few days. That shot was at 8-weeks flowering, which is when I harvested most, but kept one plant longer to see the difference. Apparently earlier harvests are more punch terps, while later harvests lean more dosido.

 

[TPFTFW]

I should be able to blow previous yields out of the water (my own record) this run.
I went all out, loving the trolmaster