Does LEDs really yield the same as their "HPS equivalent"

[TdotGonG]

Overall resin and quality were superior to most everything I’ve done under hps, and I’ve been growing large scale since 1988. I think adding uvb will only make things that much better too. Nothing I can say will convince you, but numerous people in my thread received some of it, and they all thought it was incredible if that means anything.......

Math is math man. If the yield is higher, well you convinced me. I wont argue a fact. Would like to see the quality be the same. the cost come down a bit as well. I personally have not tried LED bud that was as dense and as flavor full as HPS grown bud. But like I said I'll most likely end up buying the new CT light to test. Getting a bit antsy need to buy something fancy...ha that rhymes. Well see how it goes in the future.


@ F-E



To little time unfortunately. To much going on with life. I'd rather just pay the 1300+ and buy a fancy light. Shitty as it is. Would love a LED build project to work on.

 

[sshz]

It was a big step for me.....I only did it to reduce the room heat in the summer, no other reason. So, I'm running the room hotter now at around 81 degrees (go figure), and the yield was just a big fat bonus. I wasn't sold til the end of the grow, as I loved HPS- but it only took 1 grow to convince me otherwise. Good luck moving forward.

 

[Storm Shadow]

Oh yeah when you combine both pics it looks nice

 

[Storm Shadow]

Im about to get these new Gavitas when they come out... cant wait!!!

 

[sshz]

I would think the biggest difference between the two Gavita LED's is the dispursement of heat. The 1700e's use a passive design, letting the heat rise between the 8 bars. The new ones use a heat sink I guess, a totally different ball game as the heat is concentrated in a much smaller area because the light is so much smaller.

 

[eyes]

Gavita just announced a 1:1 LED. CT1930E. 780w. 1930umol. Let's see how the price is.



https://gavita.com/retail/products/gavita-pro-line-led/gavita-ct-1930e-led/#product_more_info




The China quantum's felt like a waste of money, So I went DE. 1000W DE in the 5x5 A-Frame tent hung at the very top, and my plants are stressed as hell. Had to order 600w/750w lamps to cut down on output. Doubt a 600+w LED unit would do the same. as for heat. Yea less watts means less btu's. Fact is though, with current market LED's. You need more of them to equalize a DE's penetration. in term adding more wattage than you would need in a DE room. Thus negating any positive affects the LEDhas, which would also INCREASE COSTS, by adding btu's to the room...this LED market has been convoluted as hell for years. Hopefully Gavita can change my opinion on LED tech once the ct1930e is released. until then I'll stick to DE.

Gavita just announced a 1:1 LED. CT1930E. 780w. 1930umol. Let's see how the price is.



https://gavita.com/retail/products/gavita-pro-line-led/gavita-ct-1930e-led/#product_more_info




The China quantum's felt like a waste of money, So I went DE. 1000W DE in the 5x5 A-Frame tent hung at the very top, and my plants are stressed as hell. Had to order 600w/750w lamps to cut down on output. Doubt a 600+w LED unit would do the same. as for heat. Yea less watts means less btu's. Fact is though, with current market LED's. You need more of them to equalize a DE's penetration. in term adding more wattage than you would need in a DE room. Thus negating any positive affects the LEDhas, which would also INCREASE COSTS, by adding btu's to the room...this LED market has been convoluted as hell for years. Hopefully Gavita can change my opinion on LED tech once the ct1930e is released. until then I'll stick to DE.

I couldnt even run my 600 HPS this year with the warm weather. So I bought 4- 320 watt dimmable LEDs. The dimmer will save ya if the weather is too hot or if your in veg and dont want to run em at full blast. Im about 5 weeks in and all looks good thus far. I do defoliate and have done so with this crop as well. I would say I am about 20 -22 inches off the tops because a blend of a indica and more sativa crop. I would lower it to 18 inches other wise if not for a few taller ones on the indica side.

The only manufacture that I know of that utilize diodes with there own machines is HLG and ChiLED. Most of the diodes are from Korea. The drivers from China.

SSHZ busted a stellar crop as well as others. I decided to go with these so I can have more light uniformily over the whole area as well as the heat and dimming function. Not to mention if power goes out and come back on, these instant start and dont damage your bulb. Im guessing 1gram a watt first run and at leat 1.4 or more second run with one all the same strain uniform heavier yielding crop.

I spent about 1400 on the 4 lights and figure im getting aroung 900 ppfd hitting the canopy or close to it. I would need 3- 600s to cover the same area and the heat would be tremendous. I can put my hand under these and really not much heat at all. I could go as low as 12 inches over the tops but 18 would be best for a light spread and not much light loss as far as usable ppfd over the canopy.

 

[f-e]

@ F-E

To little time unfortunately. To much going on with life. I'd rather just pay the 1300+ and buy a fancy light. Shitty as it is. Would love a LED build project to work on.

I built a few but that $500 was just a purchase. Strictly speaking they call it a kit but it's easier than hanging a 6, if some git has chopped the plug off.

I just build them to play about with air cooling ideas. Prototypes where commercial kit doesn't exist. My next one is already planned

Mars will sell you a couple of 300w lights for $510. Or a nice 650 for $800 while a 'bars' design one is $950 which is still 25% cheaper.

 

[star crash]

I’m a cheapskate or else I’d switch over , Why are they so damn expensive?

 

[f-e]

The only manufacture that I know of that utilize diodes with there own machines is HLG and ChiLED. Most of the diodes are from Korea. The drivers from China.

I'm not sure what you mean.
The HLG timeline seems to go from rebranding to cutting corners. First they stopped using the extruded heatsink and switched to a bit of plate. Now they have chopped up the 288 boards and moved the bits around. That looks like the first move towards custom parts, but it's only custom in shape. They use the LM301H now, though a few years late. Along with some reds from an unknown source. Mars use Osram. Mars also use Meanwell while HLG have switched supplier. To me the HLG story is one about selling 'made in the USA' not technical merit.

Chiled: No search results. It's going to be the same LM301 though, with some extra reds and maybe some other unproven colours. There is just no other way of making them unless you get it wrong.

 

[indagroove]

Gavita just announced a 1:1 LED. CT1930E. 780w. 1930umol. Let's see how the price is.



https://gavita.com/retail/products/gavita-pro-line-led/gavita-ct-1930e-led/#product_more_info




The China quantum's felt like a waste of money, So I went DE. 1000W DE in the 5x5 A-Frame tent hung at the very top, and my plants are stressed as hell. Had to order 600w/750w lamps to cut down on output. Doubt a 600+w LED unit would do the same. as for heat. Yea less watts means less btu's. Fact is though, with current market LED's. You need more of them to equalize a DE's penetration. in term adding more wattage than you would need in a DE room. Thus negating any positive affects the LEDhas, which would also INCREASE COSTS, by adding btu's to the room...this LED market has been convoluted as hell for years. Hopefully Gavita can change my opinion on LED tech once the ct1930e is released. until then I'll stick to DE.

It looks nice, but still less effecient than the Scorpion Diablo:

I'm not sure what you mean.
The HLG timeline seems to go from rebranding to cutting corners. First they stopped using the extruded heatsink and switched to a bit of plate. Now they have chopped up the 288 boards and moved the bits around. That looks like the first move towards custom parts, but it's only custom in shape. They use the LM301H now, though a few years late. Along with some reds from an unknown source. Mars use Osram. Mars also use Meanwell while HLG have switched supplier. To me the HLG story is one about selling 'made in the USA' not technical merit.

Chiled: No search results. It's going to be the same LM301 though, with some extra reds and maybe some other unproven colours. There is just no other way of making them unless you get it wrong.

I don't know where your bias towards HLG comes from, but clearly you aren't following their progress. HLG is working directy with Samsung to come up with a new horticulture diode, which they are scheduled to start side by side testing between 4 different diodes this month.

Mars uses lower quality Meanwell drivers. HLG is working on a new custom driver, which will work better with their boards.

Not all LM301H diodes are the same. Just check the spec sheet for the binning differences. HLG only uses top bin diodes, which are 10% to 15% brighter than lower bins. HLG does print and assemble many of their boards here in the US. It's true that Samsung prints the Diablo boards for HLG, but the companies partnered to produce that new board. Now companies on Alibaba are selling knockoffs of that board, just like they did with the QB288.

 

[TdotGonG]

It looks nice, but still less effecient than the Scorpion Diablo:

View Image

Did you even look at the link or read my post? 1930umol for the CT1930... and the same price as the scorp. more watts too. Power is power man. I don't get how the scorp is more efficient other than having less power due to it having less power, We all already know less power to a LED means more efficiency... I'm so lost here. I'm assuming you quoted the wrong dude?


Ive had my hands on the Scorp diablo or what ever HLG wants to call it. at the grow shop. yea its nice. But it feels like a fancier version of a spider farmer light. It's a painted flat aluminum panel with 2 drivers screwed onto the top and the Led's placed and a different orientation.

 

[indagroove]

Did you even look at the link or read my post? 1930umol for the CT1930... and the same price as the scorp. more watts too. Power is power man. I don't get how the scorp is more efficient other than having less power due to it having less power, We all already know less power to a LED means more efficiency... I'm so lost here. I'm assuming you quoted the wrong dude?


Ive had my hands on the Scorp diablo or what ever HLG wants to call it. at the grow shop. yea its nice. But it feels like a fancier version of a spider farmer light. It's a painted flat aluminum panel with 2 drivers screwed onto the top and the Led's placed and a different orientation.

Yes, I read it, and then I did the math. The fixture you posted is 2.47 umol/j, whereas the HLG Scorp Diablo is 2.6 umol/j. My only assertion had to do with efficiency. That Gavita light looks good. I'm guessing that they use high powered 5050 diodes instead of the more common 3030 type lm301 diodes used in most boards. I actually use 5050 diodes myself and quite like them.

 

[f-e]

It looks nice, but still less effecient than the Scorpion Diablo:

View Image




I don't know where your bias towards HLG comes from, but clearly you aren't following their progress. HLG is working directy with Samsung to come up with a new horticulture diode, which they are scheduled to start side by side testing between 4 different diodes this month.

Mars uses lower quality Meanwell drivers. HLG is working on a new custom driver, which will work better with their boards.

Not all LM301H diodes are the same. Just check the spec sheet for the binning differences. HLG only uses top bin diodes, which are 10% to 15% brighter than lower bins. HLG does print and assemble many of their boards here in the US. It's true that Samsung prints the Diablo boards for HLG, but the companies partnered to produce that new board. Now companies on Alibaba are selling knockoffs of that board, just like they did with the QB288.

So they don't use different diodes. I didn't think so.
It's a shame to use top bin then run them hot by skimping on materials. I have 0.7w fans on my extruded heatsinks that offer more lumens per watt then my lights, so a flat plate must be terrible. It would be interesting to get a contact thermometer on one.
Cheaper Meanwells? I'm not sure I follow. They use the Dali ones with external adjustment, in order to link them all for a single control. That's not the cheap ones.
The 288 board was on the market before HLG existed. I was buying them with the LM301H over a year before HLG got them. That's not China copying.
I think my timeline is spot on, for how little interest I have in either brand. Truth is the comparable bar lights from the two are better from Mars. Meanwell drivers and Osram Reds.

The fact they want to develop something of their own is great but has no bearing on what's available. Yet it's already in the marketing campaign and people are speaking like it exists. That really might be it's only value.

I have no bias for any company. I have not even said where I buy from. I'm not able to say anything about the Gavita offering as nothing has been published. As a company though, I have seen them make a lot of fails. People have stripped out entire warehouses full, sick of continued faults and low strike power limiting lamp choice. I was offered barrows full and declined. The only reason to use them is to get certificated kit for professional operations. Kit you can spray down.

 

[f-e]

View Image

Hardly seems fair to see Gavita's and HLG's bar light and not our active sponsors, Mars.

Is it a umol/j leaderboard? The Mars wins at upto 2.9 but we are all watching our pockets here. At $960 it's mid priced per umol while the other two are in the upmost tier. The viperspectra and Mars from the very bottom of the list offer the most ppfd per $

 

[indagroove]

Hardly seems fair to see Gavita's and HLG's bar light and not our active sponsors, Mars.

Is it a umol/j leaderboard? The Mars wins at upto 2.9 but we are all watching our pockets here. At $960 it's mid priced per umol while the other two are in the upmost tier. The viperspectra and Mars from the very bottom of the list offer the most ppfd per $

I didn't make that chart, it's based on independent testing done by Migro, and you should look again because there are two Mars lights in the chart. Frankly the numbers of 2.9 which Mars claims are lies. That's a SS from a video that Migro posted, and he did different charts based on different assessments. I personally don't use any of the fixtures listed.

 

[indagroove]

So they don't use different diodes. I didn't think so.
It's a shame to use top bin then run them hot by skimping on materials. I have 0.7w fans on my extruded heatsinks that offer more lumens per watt then my lights, so a flat plate must be terrible. It would be interesting to get a contact thermometer on one.
Cheaper Meanwells? I'm not sure I follow. They use the Dali ones with external adjustment, in order to link them all for a single control. That's not the cheap ones.
The 288 board was on the market before HLG existed. I was buying them with the LM301H over a year before HLG got them. That's not China copying.
I think my timeline is spot on, for how little interest I have in either brand. Truth is the comparable bar lights from the two are better from Mars. Meanwell drivers and Osram Reds.

The fact they want to develop something of their own is great but has no bearing on what's available. Yet it's already in the marketing campaign and people are speaking like it exists. That really might be it's only value.

I have no bias for any company. I have not even said where I buy from. I'm not able to say anything about the Gavita offering as nothing has been published. As a company though, I have seen them make a lot of fails. People have stripped out entire warehouses full, sick of continued faults and low strike power limiting lamp choice. I was offered barrows full and declined. The only reason to use them is to get certificated kit for professional operations. Kit you can spray down.

Mars uses the ELG series drivers which are less efficient than the XLG or HLG series drivers which HLG uses. ELG series also has a shorter warranty than the HLG series.

Frankly, Mars lies about their efficiency. Show me any independent testing that puts them at 2.9. The reality is they originally said they had 3.0, and then I questioned that directly. They said it was a math error, and changed to 2.9. Sorry to say they are using theoretical math to give that rating, not true sphere testing done by an independent 3rd party. It's a shame that our beloved advertiser , Mars, continues to lie to the forum users.

Yes they are both lm301 diodes, but you ignore the fact that Mars (and others) self-admittedly use lower bin diodes, which based on the data sheets have 10% to 15% less flux.

I admit that I am bias against Gavita because they are owned by Scotts, but that's a different point entirely.

I think you're wrong about the history of the QB288 board, but I don't have specific evidence, yet..

 

[indagroove]

Cheaper Meanwells? I'm not sure I follow. They use the Dali ones with external adjustment, in order to link them all for a single control. That's not the cheap ones.

See the cost difference on digikey..

 

[indagroove]

So they don't use different diodes. I didn't think so.

Technically they do. Each bin has a different naming factor, but most manufactures conveniently omit that info:

 

[indagroove]

The 288 board was on the market before HLG existed.

Do you have evidence of a QB288 existing prior to 2016?

 

[f-e]

All the other bins are not 10-15% worse. There are 3 bins there and as little as 5% between top and bottom.
I can't talk about who lies but the Osram red is more efficient than the samsung iirc. Though as your obviously aware the driver can be so inefficient that it makes a good led still part of a bad light.

Inventronics drivers are appearing in HLG's but even 15% headline figures don't mean much when the price gap is so many times greater. I don't think the Mars bar light can use the ELG as they only make them up to 240w. Where they are 93% efficient vs the HLG's 93.5% so it's not a huge gap. Still it's 3w wasted though, between the two types, if they made both that big.