Does LEDs really yield the same as their "HPS equivalent"

[Mars Hydro Led]

Lol that's a spectacular canopy! Very well done.
Still i must say the gpw can get better with leds, but still 1,5gpw is a good result after all. I hit 1,8gpw once with zero environment control, sativa dom variety.



Cheers

1.8gpw is a very nice number.

 

[roybart]

So HPS has magic photons that are sooo much better than LED photons?

While confirmation bias and cognitive immunization solidify someone’s belief, people cling to those ideas for another reason. It’s because that line of thinking is useful to them. That and they reinforce their belief through other elements.
Research suggests that there is five methods that we use to enforce this:

1. We shield ourselves from people with opposing views. This is much like confirmation bias in that people collectively believe one thing and push out people who don’t “fit.”
2. We reduce our exposure to opposing views. Social media has done a great job at that by serving up similar views of what we believe in rather than opposing views that challenge our thinking.
3. We deepen an emotional connection with our beliefs. From scare tactics to get children to eat their veggies or that we’re “going to hell and burn in hellfire” if we don’t have a particular religious affiliation.
4. We associate with parties that support our views — like confirmation bias — but we also go as far as to discredit our opponents. In fact it’s common practice to look at opposing views weaknesses as opposed to looking at the points made.
5. We repeat our belief over and over again, much like a habit.

https://medium.com/@ericsburdon/clinging-to-old-methods-5cb0ab0c5a1c

 

[Azeotrope]

Yes, not all LEDs are equal, and anyone selling a 250w LED fixture to equal a 600w HPS is a liar. I'd stay away from any company with such claims. LED to HPS wattage equivalency is closer to 75% IMO, so you'd be looking at a 450w quality LED fixture being roughly equal to a 600w HPS. If you use 75% as the math, you would see that the ".5 to 1 gram per watt on average" you posted for HPS would equal around .67 to 1.33 g/w for LED.



HPS was the standard for decades, and many big grow ops still use them very successfully. That said, yes LED is the way of the future. If you are smart you can put together a high quality LED rig with parts warrantied for 7 years for around $0.80/watt. Those QB's will not need to be replaced for at least 5 years, and then the replacement cost for the boards is only around $0.50 /watt. You don't need to buy any bulbs during that time at all, so you save a bunch there. As far as cost savings you will save 54 KwH (12/12 flowering, even more in veg) per month for every 600w HPS that is converted to a 450w LED fixture (in my case, a savings of around $100 a year per fixture). So, if you follow the math, you'll already save more than you spent to build the fixture in power over 5 years, plus no bulb cost. It's like free energy.

In general LED's lack the full spectrum output of the high quality CMH bulbs. I am game to try some of the Osram/Sylvania Fluence fixtures in the near future as I'll likely be in a legal state soon and will have the space to dedicate for some comparison.

 

[indagroove]

In general LED's lack the full spectrum output of the high quality CMH bulbs. I am game to try some of the Osram/Sylvania Fluence fixtures in the near future as I'll likely be in a legal state soon and will have the space to dedicate for some comparison.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement. This is a CMH spectrum:

This is the spectrum of my LED fixture:

The main difference I'm seeing is a lot less blue and red in the CMH spectrum, and a little valley between 450nm and 525nm. Also see a bit of an IR spike in the CMH fixture.

 

[John LOQUE]

The gavita 1700 e, is at 1700 €, lol!!! Don't you find this very expensive for a 635 watts led fixture? It's insane! Actually it's at 1890 € but shipping is free...
I don't think it's better than the ones i've built with a driller and a screw driver... And a fantastic dedicated thread, here on this forum

 

[sshz]

I own two of them and disagree with you......find me another LED that has 3300+ diodes on it. Find me another that comes with a 5 year warranty. They are very well made, and being waterproof helps a lot too. I paid $1275 U.S. each plus tax delivered with the discount..........

 

[John LOQUE]

I own two of them and disagree with you......find me another LED that has 3300+ diodes on it. Find me another that comes with a 5 year warranty. They are very well made, and being waterproof helps a lot too. I paid $1275 U.S. each plus tax delivered with the discount..........

OK they are cheaper in USA... Diode number has nothing to do, it recalls me bad chinese fixture, i don't mean that gavita's are bad though.
But are they fixable? Can you do a repair job? They are passive cooled, no fan, maybe they last only just 5 years.
Mines are not water proof, true, but so far it's not an issue. In a greenhouse it would be, sure...

 

[Grapefruitroop]

Eheheh very interesting thread...
But in my opinion too much confusion....
First off i would like to point out that the meaning of the word "equivalent " has to be clarified....
Most companies (sellers) like to mean that, for example a 600w led will outperform a 1000w HPS.....
Im a Led user i believe that but its too confusing to compare in this way.
Plus it will not outperform anything if your skills and environment are not dialed in properly....

The comparison has to be done between the same wattage of fixture!!!!! Why?? Because its very freakin important how much they consume and how big its the footprint for that given wattage!
The btu's required to cool em also is not a detail that can be not mentioned



In this case thers no even argument about whos better....


But if you really wana compare a 600w LED to a 1000w halide...there are some led fixtures that blow smoke on the halides for a bunch of reasons that has been repeated many times...
Some other led fixtures sucks and their just an headache plus the learning curve on how to use em its a real thing and many peeps dont like redo the work...i donno.
I own 4 SpectrumKing 640w....and they shine beautifully on a 21 by 7 foot canopy with minimal requirement for cooling...the same setup would cost me a hella of a fortune with Halides...
I think that if everyone start to talk about wattage and foot print of dense top shelf nugs again the comparison would be redundant...
Said that, i totally understand that for some growers that are crashing it everytime with their HPS's they are prone to keep it that way...If aint broke dont fix it, but my point its that skills aside with LED you willbe more energy efficient!
And thats the whole point...

Keep up the good works everyone!!

 

[sshz]

What you are missing is the purpose of having so many diodes is the drivers are set to not overly push them, so they last longer. Having more diodes makes up for the lack of push. This is why they offer a longer warranty, cause they know they'll last.

These lights are made to last, and it voids the warranty if you open them up on your own.

And there are more expensive LED's on the market now, by hundreds of dollars. This model was 2019, and numerous other brands have been released that can compete or are even slightly better right now. But these are perfectly fine and do a good job.

 

[John LOQUE]

Let's talk about area...Sun is about 100000 lux (100000 lumen/m2). Which is a 600 w HPS in a 1x1m area. I'm not a commercial grower, so i have 2 tents of 1 m2. It's plenty of buds already. Only in winter and in some particular conditions, i could put a 600 w HPS in my tents. Too much heat...
So i used 400 watts HPS and still some heat to manage. And buds were not rock hard, never. With 400 watts led's in 1 m2, the buds are very dense, even in summer. And i think i'll be able to put 600 watts of leds soon with no heat issue. And have bigger buds and still rock hard.

So unless you have a high ceiling room, like a warehouse, where you can use 1000 watts bulbs with no heat issue, led's are the way to go.

And about the high price of some leds fixture, i also think about the cost price of the final product. I want to have cheap and strong buds, and i'm a DIY kind of guy. It's more fun!:yay:

 

[Azeotrope]

Let's talk about area...Sun is about 100000 lux (100000 lumen/m2). Which is a 600 w HPS in a 1x1m area. I'm not a commercial grower, so i have 2 tents of 1 m2. It's plenty of buds already. Only in winter and in some particular conditions, i could put a 600 w HPS in my tents. Too much heat...
So i used 400 watts HPS and still some heat to manage. And buds were not rock hard, never. With 400 watts led's in 1 m2, the buds are very dense, even in summer. And i think i'll be able to put 600 watts of leds soon with no heat issue. And have bigger buds and still rock hard.

So unless you have a high ceiling room, like a warehouse, where you can use 1000 watts bulbs with no heat issue, led's are the way to go.

And about the high price of some leds fixture, i also think about the cost price of the final product. I want to have cheap and strong buds, and i'm a DIY kind of guy. It's more fun!:yay:

LUX, Lumens, Foot candles are all completely worthless units of measure where grow lighting is concerned.

 

[Azeotrope]

I'm not sure I agree with that statement. This is a CMH spectrum:

View Image

This is the spectrum of my LED fixture:
View Image

The main difference I'm seeing is a lot less blue and red in the CMH spectrum, and a little valley between 450nm and 525nm. Also see a bit of an IR spike in the CMH fixture.

Uummmmmmm....... You just pointed out two very important areas that LED fixture lacks.

 

[Horselover Fat]

^ just add all the IR leds you think you need. I don't think you need any though. Why do you think the blue-green light is so so important?

 

[SuperBadGrower]

I am game to try some of the Osram/Sylvania Fluence fixtures in the near future as I'll likely be in a legal state soon and will have the space to dedicate for some comparison.

Not too long ago you declared with great confidence that its a waste?

LEDs are a waste of money! Not to mention that comparing them to HPS which suck anyway is already setting a low bar.

I have used CMH and all types of LEDs for years and HPS in the past. Im not the only one. If you care about the answer, ask a question, otherwise keep on theorycrafting based on graphs of spectrums instead of real world experience.
Yes, they are different lights, yes, CMH looks objectively much better than 80 CRI PC leds. How does it affect the bud? Not much or not at all Which light yields more? LED hands down. Which light is easier? CMH hands down. Which lamp is most cost effective? Depends

If you are a CMH user you won't be disappointed with LEDs at all if you use them correctly. good chance you'll end up replacing all your lights.
For me it's the power bill - otherwise, CMH + a few LED supplementation units is a kingly setup!

 

[SuperBadGrower]

I saw that someone mentioned the jungle boys info, there is a recent podcast interview on youtube where they talk more about the lights at the end, last 20 mins or so

I dont know or care for that brand but they obviously are doing well there. They talk about using shorter plants for LED room and stuff.
Also check out the comments they are pretty funny, apparently these guys are pretty hated.

edit: I removed the link though because I think it's a bit too much advertisement. you can find the video on youtube if you want. "Future cannabis"

 

[gsxr97]

Lm301b shortage?

Lm301b shortage?

Anyone else heard this ? I was told from several Chinese led sellers that a shortage of lm301b for next few months . They have been all bought up Supposedly.

Or is this a sales ploy?

 

[sshz]

I saw that someone mentioned the jungle boys info, there is a recent podcast interview on youtube where they talk more about the lights at the end, last 20 mins or so

I dont know or care for that brand but they obviously are doing well there. They talk about using shorter plants for LED room and stuff.
Also check out the comments they are pretty funny, apparently these guys are pretty hated.

edit: I removed the link though because I think it's a bit too much advertisement. you can find the video on youtube if you want. "Future cannabis"

They are hated because they are selling seed packs for $750 (10 pack)........

 

[Mr. J]

They are hated because they are selling seed packs for $750 (10 pack)........

Don't hate the player, breh. If dumbasses were throwing money at you the haters would hate you too, but you'd probably be pretty happy about the whole thing.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

They are hated because they are selling seed packs for $750 (10 pack)........

Don't hate the player, breh. If dumbasses were throwing money at you the haters would hate you too, but you'd probably be pretty happy about the whole thing.

I have have heard second hand that they used to be one of the best then they started chasing dollars and the quality went to shit a couple years ago.

But again, I have no first hand knowledge of this. But it does seem to be a trend with growers.

 

[sshz]

I know they are expanding east, and opening an operation in Florida.

$75 a seed is kind of ridiculous by anyone's standards, isn't it? It reminds me of when Logic of ********* was auctioning off some Stardawg seeds a few years ago, and the packs were going for over $1000 each Then people started growing them out and boy were they upset with the quality.