Do you have Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome?

[Testicles]

The anti histamine theory makes the bathes make sense. I knew from boy scouts to treat itch with hot water. Check this out.

"A hot bath or shower often produces relief in that heat releases histamine, the substance in the skin that causes intense itching. Therefore, a hot shower will cause intense itching as the histamine is being released. The heat should be gradually increased to the maximum tolerable and continued until the itching subsides. This process will deplete the cells of histamine, and the patient will obtain up to 8 hours of relief from itching.". https://www.healthcentral.com/encyclopedia/p/poison-ivy-and-poison-oak

Is the bath releasing histmines? And thus the comfort? can this be treated like an allergy regardless of causation?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Definitely a possibility. I've been through times the effect lasted 'almost' long enough for the hot water tank to refill. Those were the worst times.

Good find.

 

[GrowingHigher]

Aza is supposed to break down over time and through exposure to light. It makes sense to me the denser nugs would protect the inner parts of the buds from it breaking down as quickly.

Azadaratchin has a half life of about 2.5 days on the leaf surface. What you say may lengthen this. Additionally, systemically applied azadaratchin may persist longer,

That would actually be a disaster, at least we can stop spraying aza. Were it CBD/THC ratios, it would mean cannabis itself has problems for animals. Very not good.

Lots of antigens or drugs cause issues in small segments of the population without doing so to the majority. If it is CBD/THC ratios, it isn't bad necessarily, just something we don't understand yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamp-hill View Post
certified organic is starting more and more to appear as a bullshit tax on nature grown using monsanto allowed organicides that have effects similar to other poisons like glyphosates, which have the inevitable effect of poisoining populations consuming the staple foods grown using those chemicals. glyphosate/round-up has been implicated in cases of serious gut disorders that many assume to be "gluten-intolerance" or "maybe crons or MS(or was it fibromyalgia?)"


sorry for the uncontrollable rant

The glyphosate is new to me as being similar in issues. I know for a fact none of the cannabis I grew (which caused me issues) was grown with glyphosate. It would not surprise me to find glyphosate does cause issues of it's own. As for the rant, I totally understand. Anyone who's spent time with this issue knows how badly it interferes with the enjoyment of life. F'ing rude, really.

Neem is organic. Organic is not synonymous with safe. Rotenone is also a very effective organic pesticide that has largely fallen out of favor due to its potential dangers.

Take organic peanut butter: it may have less pesticide residue but more aflatoxins (an organic substance and the most carcinogenic substance known) than conventionally grown peanut butter with fungicide residue. Allowable aflatoxin levels in food are far higher than levels known to cause cancer, and are not even actionable. Everything is more nuanced than it first appears (Don't eat organic peanut butter, that part is not nuanced).

The people that are sensitive to azadirachtin, does it occur vaping as well as smoking?? A vape uses way less temperature, and may not release it.

I exclusively vape.

Maybe we shouldn't forget about the American (Western) way off life: no moderation, poor nutrition (fast food, etc...), no exercise, massive amounts of sugar intake, stress, poor sleep and a lot of mental and physical illnesses.

But almost all the CHS cases have something in common: years of cannabis abuse and a poor way of life. Makes me think it's maybe a combination of psychological issues in combination with poor physical condition (the Western Disease) and abusing cannabis to 'feel' better.

I have a healthy lifestyle. If this were true there would be no Cannabis link.


update on my personal expieriance:
I have not moderated my use significantly in over a year. I do regularly include high CBD flower in my consumption.

I have stopped using neem products on my grows. I have not been consuming any product that neem was used on.

I still experience significant morning sickness (nausea and occasionally vomiting) 1 to several times a week. This has persisted to this day.

I have not had any serious episodes (~24 hour of violent vomiting) in over a year.

Conclusion:

I am open to neem playing a role in this syndrome, but I think this is should be viewed only as a hypothesis, certainly not a working theory. I still suspect it is a syndrome primarily associated with Cannabis and cannabinoid receptor biology of the user.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

update on my personal expieriance:
I have not moderated my use significantly in over a year. I do regularly include high CBD flower in my consumption.

I have stopped using neem products on my grows. I have not been consuming any product that neem was used on.

I still experience significant morning sickness (nausea and occasionally vomiting) 1 to several times a week. This has persisted to this day.

I have not had any serious episodes (~24 hour of violent vomiting) in over a year.

Conclusion:

I am open to neem playing a role in this syndrome, but I think this is should be viewed only as a hypothesis, certainly not a working theory. I still suspect it is a syndrome primarily associated with Cannabis and cannabinoid receptor biology of the user.

Definitely an improvement, so glad to hear it. Have you been tested for H.Pylori? I continually suffered from digestion issues between poisonings with aza. I recently had an H.Pylori test done and the dual antibiotic/prilosec treatment.

My digestion is back to normal. First time in 10 years. I highly recommend looking into an H.Pylori test. I'll be very surprised if you test negative for it. I'm thinking CHS may be a combination of sensitivity to neem/aza, presence of H.Pylori resulting in a significant bloom of the bacteria in the gut. Possibly the aza destroys a beneficial bacteria which keeps the H.Pylori at normal levels. Dunno, but I'm 1000% better than I've been the last 10 years. Put on 10lbs so fast it made my head spin. heh

Light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[c00k1eFunk]

somebody will start aruing and maybe mad at what i will write now but its what i have exerienced over the years.
when i had nothing and had to smoke somebodies weed(commercial growers or even better "netherlands haze") especially from one grower that i know that he is growing mineral hesi full line without ec an ph pen, has to buy a new sprayer every other grow because its clogged with 1inch of salts...
i will have to choke sometimes, i will have headashes after a smoking evening. heavy head after waking up.
When i grow by myself i put every kind of nasty stuff on my plants, neem, Garlic, horsetail, comftey and nettles, did somebody try some of that stuff?
i did, since i brew my teas and extracts myself and am willing to try i little bit its really disgusting most of the time.
i didnt try guano tea or kelp tea but its disgusting too , every bet.
When i have plants with low thc, i have to smoke 3gramms a day to get high and i have never had any headache or choking from the smoke.
I think we have still no clue what combinations or carcenogen/toxic complexes are formed inside the pants when different mineral and chemican compounds are mixed without 100%care and even then. We do not know whan happens to some of this substances when they are burned or during the curing process or after they are accumulated over the years by the body.
If you have any bad bodyreaction from smoking weed, you should consider trying pure organics.
smoking weed should release some of the modern disease and help but not cause itch and vommit...

 

[c00k1eFunk]

people in india and afrika are using neem regularly against worms(drink) and to wash thein wair to get bugs out. i doubt that it is unhealthy to the body, but maybe some people are allergic..

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

somebody will start aruing and maybe mad at what i will write now but its what i have exerienced over the years.

duly noted... we can only see things through our own experiences.

When i have plants with low thc, i have to smoke 3gramms a day to get high and i have never had any headache or choking from the smoke.

This is the type of cannabis I grow, refined mineral salts though, no organics. You can smoke bong hits all day, for months, and never pick up even a tiny smoker's cough. Mucus from your lungs is clear, no black. I'm dead serious about the cleanliness of my cannabis.

You make some good points about how unhealthy cannabis can be produced and the effects it has on the body. Looking forward to the day when people can move away from the money aspect and focus freely on the quality aspects

 

[Yodaweed]

The people getting this are really just getting pesticide poisoning and don't know it cause they aren't growing their own buds, i kinda feel sorry for them , this whole industry is all about money and not about the final product and it shows.

 

[Drewsif]

The people getting this are really just getting pesticide poisoning and don't know it cause they aren't growing their own buds, i kinda feel sorry for them , this whole industry is all about money and not about the final product and it shows.

Complete idiots will always buy fuckered pot and the producers know it. I smell neem every time i go to a dispensary. Or dairy (not UK Cheese, but organic fungicides) The person next to me says "man that's skunky, gimme an 8th of that, here's 60 bucks bro" and i get sick to my stomach wishing I could jump on the counter and start screaming "WEED DONT SMELL LIKE FUCKING PEANUTS OR BUTTER!"

 

[Nedstark815]

Just wondering if anyone with this has been able to find a way to continue to use cannabis without the stomach issues especially the throwing up. Be nice if you can private message to discuss in detail. Haven't been able to smoke for a long a time.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Just wondering if anyone with this has been able to find a way to continue to use cannabis without the stomach issues especially the throwing up. Be nice if you can private message to discuss in detail. Haven't been able to smoke for a long a time.

You'll be able to pm when you hit 50 posts or thereabouts.

Have you looked into:

Sourcing cannabis without neem oil, neem seed meal or azadirachtin products.
Taking an anti-histamine, such as Benadryl
Hot Showers/Baths
Getting an H.Pylori test and treatment

I'm 100% cured of digestive issues, haven't had any pain in months. Not since the treatment to get rid of the H.Pylori. I also haven't had any aza tainted cannabis lately.

About to test some tainted dabs in the next few days. Wish me luck!

 

[BudToaster]

About to test some tainted dabs in the next few days. Wish me luck!

Good luck! can you do a blind study? have someone give you 4 samples - two tainted and two clean - and only they know which is which - take away a placebo effect???

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Good luck! can you do a blind study? have someone give you 4 samples - two tainted and two clean - and only they know which is which - take away a placebo effect???

I'll make sure to have them be blind tests. The folks supplying the dabs are more than happy to help out.

 

[c00k1eFunk]

looking forward for your report douglas.

there are 35W fixtures wired and with passive heatsink with 1x cxb3590 CD bin.
One of these should be in every smokers home at least... 30gram of homegrown over 3months will be max =15-20Dollars in electricity in the most expensive parts of the world!
lets say the fixture is 200dollars(i didnt check the price, you can ask jerry or vivi from kingbright alibaba)
thats weed for 8dollars/1g FIRST GROW!

second grow will be 1dollar/g... come on, dont buy unless you really have to and have a very good source...
like i do right now, having no stash left ;(

 

[Nedstark815]

Hey Douglas thanks for the reply and info!

I've tried aza free but couldn't verify cause was just a random grower. Some of the herbs made me sick some didn't picked up a few 8ths from him with various outcomes.

Haven't tested for H.pylori might have to do that.

So have you been feeling nauseous at all when you smoke? I could deal with stomach pains but when I get all nauseous it's hard to do anything and deters me from using cannabis for sure.

Good luck on your dabs!

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Zero nausea now, though I'm pretty sure I've been neem/aza free. I feel like I did 10 years ago, can digest things like I could back then. Crazy.

I'm going to make sure the testing is worth it. We're growing out some cannabis and some of it will be treated. We'll be setting up a double blind test, two different days. We'll see what my reaction is to aza for sure. It's going to be a few months though.

What reaction does your nausea and issues have to benadryl or other anti-histamines?

 

[Nedstark815]

That's good glad you're doing better.

Looking forward to your update on the blind tests.

I took anti-histamines for one day didn't seem to help but I guess I didn't give it a fair shot.

It's been off and on with the nausea last few years that's why I've leaned towards it being something in the grow process like aza. Could smoke all day and be fine for months then bam get sick and it doesn't go away for awhile.

Also what's yours or anyone's thoughts on cbd to thc ratio? I've heard ppl say that could be something.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

That's good glad you're doing better.

Looking forward to your update on the blind tests.

I took anti-histamines for one day didn't seem to help but I guess I didn't give it a fair shot.

It's been off and on with the nausea last few years that's why I've leaned towards it being something in the grow process like aza. Could smoke all day and be fine for months then bam get sick and it doesn't go away for awhile.

Also what's yours or anyone's thoughts on cbd to thc ratio? I've heard ppl say that could be something.

Thanks

Your occasional issue may be H.Pylori related, or a specific food or food additive? Not sure. If you test positive for H.Pylori, getting rid of it should impact that for sure. I used to go a long time between issues. In the most recent years the trouble was nearly constant, regardless of actually being re-poisoned or not. Yes, without the H.Pylori all the between-poisoning issues are gone.

As for CBD:THC ratios... I've personally been using strains with less and less CBD for 30+ years. Just recently I've spent a few years with high CBD strains. Only thing consistent for me is my reaction to aza. lol

 

[Cvh]

Maybe also try some Aloe Vera 100% Juice.
I don't have CHS but other digestive issues and the Aloe Vera 100% Juice does wonders.
It's very cheap (atleast here in the EU) around 12 euro for a 750 ml bottle. And you only need to use 30 ml.
It takes my intestine pains away. Removes bowl blockages. And because of the good working intestines my headaches are gone too. It doesn't cause cramps.

 

[GrowingHigher]

Definitely an improvement, so glad to hear it. Have you been tested for H.Pylori? I continually suffered from digestion issues between poisonings with aza. I recently had an H.Pylori test done and the dual antibiotic/prilosec treatment.

My digestion is back to normal. First time in 10 years. I highly recommend looking into an H.Pylori test. I'll be very surprised if you test negative for it. I'm thinking CHS may be a combination of sensitivity to neem/aza, presence of H.Pylori resulting in a significant bloom of the bacteria in the gut. Possibly the aza destroys a beneficial bacteria which keeps the H.Pylori at normal levels. Dunno, but I'm 1000% better than I've been the last 10 years. Put on 10lbs so fast it made my head spin. heh

Light at the end of the tunnel.

This sounds like an intriguing possible cofactor. Some of my symptoms could be explained by a problem H. pylori infection. Most people are positive for it, so I likely have it regardless.

Thanks

Your occasional issue may be H.Pylori related, or a specific food or food additive? Not sure. If you test positive for H.Pylori, getting rid of it should impact that for sure. I used to go a long time between issues. In the most recent years the trouble was nearly constant, regardless of actually being re-poisoned or not. Yes, without the H.Pylori all the between-poisoning issues are gone.

As for CBD:THC ratios... I've personally been using strains with less and less CBD for 30+ years. Just recently I've spent a few years with high CBD strains. Only thing consistent for me is my reaction to aza. lol

Interesting info. My good friend who also has this claims a high degree of influence from diet as will, with high sugar-carbs causing episodes. This could be related to favoring H. pylori in the gut. My diet is moderately good, mostly vegetable, egg, and dairy. I do have a weakness for breakfast cereals, energy drinks, and doughnuts though. Maybe I need to further restrict these.

The people getting this are really just getting pesticide poisoning and don't know it cause they aren't growing their own buds, i kinda feel sorry for them , this whole industry is all about money and not about the final product and it shows.

Complete idiots will always buy fuckered pot and the producers know it. I smell neem every time i go to a dispensary. Or dairy (not UK Cheese, but organic fungicides) The person next to me says "man that's skunky, gimme an 8th of that, here's 60 bucks bro" and i get sick to my stomach wishing I could jump on the counter and start screaming "WEED DONT SMELL LIKE FUCKING PEANUTS OR BUTTER!"

I'm not sure you have read the whole thread, but I doubt the answer is so simple. As has been mentioned Neem has its own long history of internal and external human use, so at most this is a hypothesis or a cofactor.