Do you have Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome?

[Phaeton]

Never heard of this and it sounds like it SUCKS.

The only problem I have with cannabis is I think I'm allergic to it. When I'm trimming or watering in short sleeves sometimes I will start to itch. I usually get around that by wearing long sleeves and gloves when handling the plants.

Other than that no issues from using cannabis, especially nothing as severe as this here. Holy hell that would suck, vomiting from smoking weed? Yikes!

Jumped right in on the first page without finishing the whole thread, not my normal but my normal never leaves the growing section. Panic day distractions going on here.
One of my trimmers experiences rash and itching semi regular, we have it narrowed down to one or both of two strains, others do not affect her. Sweaty hot days seem to let more toxin in.

Otherwise I chimed in to report a variant sometimes associated with the syndrome, thermoregulation is thrown out of whack on some folks. Out of four folks subjected to a third of a gram of 95% THC vapors in a fifteen minute period, one went into convulsions. Shivering to shaking to fetal position convulsions. Scary, so it was repeated to be sure.
Since it started with shivering we brought along a thermometer for the fourth episode. The temperature started to go up with the shivering, climbing through the shaking then peaking out at 104 F during the height of the convulsions.

We were not stupid, we just did not care whether or not we lived as long as it was mesmerizing. Ah, the wonders of youth.

Only one out of four was affected, who knows what a larger sampling would discover. Some folks get sick when a fever hits them so I wondered about the connection.

Anybody feel really chilly after several huge lungfuls in rapid succession?

 

[Phaeton]

OK, I went back and read it all. It puts some of my anecdotal recollections in context.

I was younger then, many posts mention research shows few if any old folks have the syndrome. I still occasionally vape too much oil and start getting the shivers. I STOP right fucking then, I do care if I live or die, strange how age makes life more valuable.

The coffee angle hit home as well. I would build my habit to twelve cups per day, cold turkey five days of the seven attempted then build up to twelve cups again. Now the limit is three cups due to heart surgery. This could have as much effect on my lack of current episodes as my stopping at first shiver does.

Additives make a small percentage of users sick, but just as few get CHS so separating them out needs to be done. Difficult challenge considering most bodies do not react to either. The temperature deregulation is definitely from THC, if we could get a larger sampling to find out how many folks are vomiting just from fevers it could clear up some connections.

 

[Bluto]

I friend and medical patient just developed this. She was hospitalized in Mexico on vacation. She is very sad because the cannabis helped with her conditions.

 

[ozza]

Jumped right in on the first page without finishing the whole thread, not my normal but my normal never leaves the growing section. Panic day distractions going on here.
One of my trimmers experiences rash and itching semi regular, we have it narrowed down to one or both of two strains, others do not affect her. Sweaty hot days seem to let more toxin in.

Otherwise I chimed in to report a variant sometimes associated with the syndrome, thermoregulation is thrown out of whack on some folks. Out of four folks subjected to a third of a gram of 95% THC vapors in a fifteen minute period, one went into convulsions. Shivering to shaking to fetal position convulsions. Scary, so it was repeated to be sure.
Since it started with shivering we brought along a thermometer for the fourth episode. The temperature started to go up with the shivering, climbing through the shaking then peaking out at 104 F during the height of the convulsions.

We were not stupid, we just did not care whether or not we lived as long as it was mesmerizing. Ah, the wonders of youth.

Only one out of four was affected, who knows what a larger sampling would discover. Some folks get sick when a fever hits them so I wondered about the connection.

Anybody feel really chilly after several huge lungfuls in rapid succession?

it could be their insulin levels

 

[Phaeton]

it could be their insulin levels

I take meds for diabetes now. Back then the diabetes wasn't even known of, but the body does not get diabetic all at once, prediabetes symptoms would have been present.

Nice call.

 

[Loc Dog]

I take meds for diabetes now. Back then the diabetes wasn't even known of, but the body does not get diabetic all at once, prediabetes symptoms would have been present.

Nice call.

I hope you have some actual social contact. I am in suburbs, and have no contact with people, for over a decade, Except ill mother, and brother who hates my guts, and will probably turn me over to 50, when she dies.

I consider myself socially retarded. Only true friends, I have never met before.

 

[Stay Gel^N 247]

Sounds like they are smoking shit weed! Probably has pesticides and fungicides along with harsh chemical fertilizers. Maybe moldy brick or homegrown someone grew in their leech field.
You should only ever buy your cannabis from reputable growers, preferably grown with care in Humboldt county. Only then will you know for certain your smoke is if the highest quality...

 

[Stan G.]

That said people that take Spice and other non Phyto-Cannabinoids should not be to surprised when they turn around and bite them, these compounds have not been tested for human safety, they are research tools, not something to take on a whim, you made a big mistake, so now live with it.
I have taken massive Cannabinoid doses, over 2500mg THC at a time, a natural Ghee extract from dry sifted resin, zero problems, for me, I saw many falling down, one or two may have gotten sick, out of hundreds, bit no chronic vomiting, never saw it. But I do not know anyone stupid enough to take a Spice type drug, except for a friend that took a different much stronger compound reportedly the strongest yet, not a JWH compound, and he had to sit in a warm bath for several days he could not stand, walk, talk, and he did not like it at all. I was glad he was ok afterwards as he was a scientist and a incredible researcher that was just curious, I will not mention the compound because I do not want to encourage people to find and take these compounds. It was more then 1,000 times stronger than THC.
-SamS

I have consumed massive amounts of Cannabis smoked and eaten. I have never had any symptoms of this. Occasional anxiety/irritability with certain cultivars. Very interesting thread though. I will stay tuned for any updates on this syndrome.

 

[Loc Dog]

I know a girl (50) whose son (30) I would swear had cannabis addiction, from going through it like nothing. Winds up he is back on smack.

 

[Skip]

Sounds like they are smoking shit weed! Probably has pesticides and fungicides along with harsh chemical fertilizers. Maybe moldy brick or homegrown someone grew in their leech field.
You should only ever buy your cannabis from reputable growers, preferably grown with care in Humboldt county. Only then will you know for certain your smoke is if the highest quality...

If you read the thread thoroughly, you'd know that this is a real syndrome. Cannabis does not effect everyone in the same way. Most of these ppl have tried medical grade and still have the same issue, eaten, smoked, shatter, etc. Only difference is degree of dis-ease experienced.

As a chronic allergy sufferer (I'm esp. allergic to cannabis flowers growing in an enclosed room!), I know that the body can sometimes develop associative allergies.
In fact I was never allergic to flowers until I lived next to a carnation field on Maui for a couple of months.
At first, I wasn't really bothered at all by the smell, but by the second month, I suddenly had such a bad allergy, I would have to go to the beach for relief.

It took awhile for me to understand that carnations were sprayed with nasty chemicals (probably when I was away), and that I probably had a reaction to the chemicals that then became associated with the flowery carnation smell/pollen. This association quickly generalized to all flowers.

I lived with that for years, until I discovered Zyrtec which gave me nearly instant relief and now I've taken it every day for a long time...

Anyway, this relates to the cannabinoid hyperemesis (means lots of vomiting, btw) because it could be possible ppl at one point smoked or ingested some really bad cannabis, whether chemical or mold or whatever that set off their antihistamine/immune/vomit response. And due to the associative nature of some allergy responses it became generalized to cannabis in any form.

Bodies can react in a specific way to a generalized stimulus if it has been conditioned already, a la pavlov's dog.

If that is the case, then it might be possible to reverse this conditioning by exposing one to a positive conditioning to the same stimulus.

This has been the subject of very old and recent studies if you're interested you can look them up.

Now I'm wondering if hypnosis might help in some of these cases.
That's because you can get people to re-associate (mentally) negative experiences via their subconscious.
Whether that could translate into reprogramming automatic physical responses is unclear.

 

[Cvh]

Hi all, I'm from a dutch speaking EU-country. (Guess which one and then again because you'll be wrong, lol)

In the +20 years of using and being in the 'scene' the first time I ever heard of CHS is on this board when I joined a few months ago. I have never heard a thing about it before nor is there much talk about it on dutch forums. Nor do I know anybody who suffers from this illness. This makes me wonder about a few things.

Reading through all the threads and google-ing about it I believe this syndrome is certainly real.
There is certainly evidence that the syndrome is real. Some people use cannabis and get sick ergo cannabis is to blame (several reported cases exist).

But the question is what causes the syndrome? Is it the plant itself or is the use of certain chemicals during growing/production or is it because of abuse or psychological issues or way off life or nutrition or...
Many questions still remain. But the thing I find interesting is that this syndrome is more of a USA/Western illness. Not a EU (50-60 years of regulated use in Holland) or African, Middle-Eastern or Asian (Many 1000's years of use) and almost no cases of CHS.

Is it due to potency? I don't think so, in the old world people are making high THC rich concentrates for centuries (Hash...).
Is it due to amounts? I don't know. Look at those Sadhu's in India and certain groups into the Middle-East and Africa. Those groups are using Cannabis in a non-stop way of life for centuries.
Is it due to chemical pesticides/fertilizer? Then we should get sick from eating our other vegetables to.
Is it that organic Neem, Aza pesticide? Could be, it's not because it's organic it's not dangerous. Lots of toxic plants, the majority of plants on earth are toxic actually. Many plants can even easily kill a man. Ie. Datura, Bella Donna, Opium poppy's,... to name a few.

Maybe we shouldn't forget about the American (Western) way off life: no moderation, poor nutrition (fast food, etc...), no exercise, massive amounts of sugar intake, stress, poor sleep and a lot of mental and physical illnesses.

But almost all the CHS cases have something in common: years of cannabis abuse and a poor way of life. Makes me think it's maybe a combination of psychological issues in combination with poor physical condition (the Western Disease) and abusing cannabis to 'feel' better.

Just stay positive in life people and take good care of yourself. Both physical and mentally. Don't give in to negativity.
If no one told you today they love you then I say it to you now that I love you. And here is a hug for you to

 

[medman225]

I would just like to add, thank you so much to Thomas Paine and everyone else who contributed... I had no idea about this until my girlfriend and I realized that she has this, and that the shatter she had been smoking to help with nausea and pain, is in fact making it worse... It popped up after she started smoking for only 2 months(admittedly, mostly high % shatter, and big dabs at that, and smoking 24/7)..... and it progressively got worse over the last 6 months.... with repeated ER visits, an endoscopy, and many a miserable day for her, we were told about this by the doc after the endoscopy(it was yesterday).... so she didn't smoke yesterday other than a small hit of weed to fall asleep... and hasn't smoked today, and she is already feeling much better. we will continue to watch her and see if this was indeed what she has, but I'm already confident that she has it, and the CHS is VERY REAL. I mean, if we can already admit the fact that thc/cbd overdose in edibles, while not fatal, can cause some severe discomfort in the stomach specifically, as well as the fact that you can most certainly be just fine around weed for years, only to later develop an allergy, over time, much like Hay Fever, then why on earth is it such a stretch to believe that some people don't react well to cannabis, to the point where it can become somewhat of a poison? Remember, all these symptoms, to me, sounds like the body's way of trying to get rid of said cannabinoids....

 

[medman225]

cvh I think much like how addicts respond differently to drugs than a normal brain I think the body's of these people who get this, are in fact somehow allergic to it. as to why some people develop an allergy, and some don't... I cant answer. in this case, it may not even be an allergy specifically... but it has the same effect in the sense that the body responds negatively to the cannibinoids, and triggers vomiting to try and rid the system of it.

 

[Cvh]

@medman225
I agree 100%. The key issue with CHS imo is 'Moderation' like I tried to explain in my previous post. Cannabis overdose won't kill you but can certainly make the body trigger it's defense mechanism to get rid of the supposed toxic substances. => Vomitting.
Imo it's actually the same response you get before Magic Mushrooms kick in. Many experienced shroom growers/users will agree that the vomitting before a shroom trip start is also a defense mechanism from the body. Because the body thinks you ate something bad.

When I use cannabis (weed or homemade solventless hash). I only use the amount equal to the size of a pea. It will give me the full effects without any of the know negative side effects ie. paranoia,...etc. And I only do this a max 3 times a day. I'm a grower myself (for 20 years and proud of it) and it's been over 2 months when I last used. I found no time and I can't combine the hangover/aftermath effects the day after with my job. I don't sell so al my excess gets thrown away (pounds end up in the dumpster...).

I also believe the body can develop an 'allergy' to it. Meaning that for people who abused it over a long time even the smallest hit will trigger the defense mechanism.

I'm glad your gf is feeling much better already. Maybe try the same and let her only use the amount of a pea at the time of weed (no large amounts of high % dabs/shatter/wax...etc anymore.). Moderation...

And also watch out with pesticides (incl Neem),

Cheers.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Medman225, Any clue as to whether neem or azadirachtin products were used on the cannabis your gf was getting shatter from?

Cvh, any studies overseas on azadirachtin, cannabis and humans yet?

 

[Cvh]

Cvh, any studies overseas on azadirachtin, cannabis and humans yet?

I can't find any. But I found the article below. It's a case study of a person who had consumed a large amount of Neem as a suicide attempt.

https://dx.doi.org/10.3109/15563650.2010.518148

Add the above url to the website sci-hub.cc and you can get the full article for free.
Pm me if you need additional help on how to get (any) scientific article for free.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

I can't find any. But I found the article below. It's a case study of a person who had consumed a large amount of Neem as a suicide attempt.

https://dx.doi.org/10.3109/15563650.2010.518148

Add the above url to the website sci-hub.cc and you can get the full article for free.
Pm me if you need additional help on how to get (any) scientific article for free.

Thank you for that.

Seems the lady was not allergic to aza. It's possible quite a few of the children in the other studies cited were. 10 out of 12 died in just one example given. Nasty way to find out toxicity.

 

[Testicles]

Fascinating thread.

Long time smoker, first time caller.

I've suffered with this for years. Smoked since the early 90s. Always had good connections. Sometime around 2011 I started getting sick. I had lived a little rough, drinking eating crap for years. I was no stranger to driving the bus (if you're familiar with the euphemism for hugging the porcelain goddess). But this was a different kind of sick. Lasted all day, violent and cramping.

Learned to get in the tub. Ended in the hospital a couple times. Couldn't figure it out. Doc, being the butcher that they are wanted to cut me open and take my gall bladder.

I've had dozens of attacks in the past 5 years. Lost 60lbs in a matter of months in the beginning.

Triggered by food, stress, and maybe sometimes booze. (If I am hung over and puke I may start a episode)

Attacks are random. Might go a couple months, might have two in a row.

I feel like there is a blockage that has to work through. Even with the vomiting I seem to work out an ugly fatty lump near the end. I'll drink water knowing I can't hold it down, but just to have something to help empty. I don't even hold back anymore. Yack till it's out.

Even when I'm done with the vomits I still cramp. Baths help, stomach grumbles are the greatest. I will have 30-45sec long grumbles. They are the best thing after a night in a ball in the tub.

I buy my weed. Used to have a connection, bought a 1/4lb every month. She had a few different growers, and we'd get some variety. Now I buy the legal stuff down the street. I'd say most what I buy would be indoor.

I don't always have attacks, and I smoke consistantly. I gave up foods, coffee, booze hoping to find the trigger. Booze and coffee I think help to keep my stomach moving. The cramping goes from the stomach and over my shoulders.

Stress brings on attacks, but food is the key trigger. The stomach just ceases. Nothing gets through. Sometimes it is the meal after the bad meal that comes up first. Fats and cheese live mozzarella seem to be what really kills me. Haven't had a brat in years. I eat boiled chicken and rice. Until I feel to good and cheat a chicken tender only to regret it.

Hot water and the heating pad help, again just hoping for the grumble. So does josteling my gut. Once had an attack before a sailing trip and the rough seas gave me relief. I'll do jumping jacks and the truffle shuffle just trying to get that grumble.

I've read this thread. I'm just coming off a double attack. Twice in as many weeks after a long healthy spell. I bought a 1/2 from the shop.

What caught my eye was the comment about tooth pain. That last sack hurt my testy when I smoked it. Give me a little bit of a headache. But I was thinking I needed to see a dentist. I've also got a bit of an ice cream headache (which is usually caused by extra blood running the the esophagus). I wouldn't have thought of these but for the thread. I smoked a different weed today no tooth pain.

When I have an attack I get so cold. I'll crank the heat and shiver under the blanket. Can't get warm but in the bath. But after I yack I'm sweating like a whore in church. Even when I'm better I'm weak for a week. I will physically shake wouldn't call it a seizure, but a full body shiver as a crawl from the toilet to the tub.

I don't know which is harder giving up the herb, or giving up the food. If I could eat again I might not be so depressed. When I thought it was my gall bladder I gave up so many foods.

I don't want to go anywhere lest I have an attack. So I'm not too much fun anymore anyway.

I know a guy. No pesticides outside grow. I'm going to source there for a while see if that can help.

I'm interested in the neem theory. It doesn't make sense that this just showed up. Believe it or not but we had pretty good weed in the 90s. And why we see this only in western countries. The indoor grows are adding a bunch of additives. Just bought some benidryl today. I may get some charcoal, can't hurt.

 

[Testicles]

Ummm. Strange auto correct above. The weed hurt my teeth, NOT my testy. Not sure what my phone was thinking there. Testies are just fine thanks.

And of course I logged in as Testicles. I've just lost all credibility. Lol

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Testies: I'm expecting better results for you from the clean outdoor grower. Double check though, some organic growers don't consider neem/aza as a pesticide and will mentally skip it when telling you what was used on their plants. Also includes neem seed mail. Take an anti-histamine and see if it causes any relief of your symptoms.

As for the 'moderation' thing, it's bogus for me. I can consume vast quantities of neem/aza free cannabis, zero issues. Couple puffs of tainted cannabis and my guts start rumbling and the pain begins again. Again, anti-histamines definitely reduce the symptoms for me.