Diy steel hoop house.

[flyontoast]

Great thread everyone. Thanks Crush for sharing your build!


If the roll-up sides are on a thermostat and the light-dep is on a timer, what happen when it's 7pm and it's still too hot for the roll-up sides to close but the light-dep starts rolling over the sides? Is that something you solved with your controller or are the roll-up sides able to close under the light-dep?

 

[CrushnYuba]

I came up with a plan for a light dep controller that shouldn't cost more than $250 to make. At home I use a Vera Zwave controller to run house lights, grow room, hydroponic pumps, measuring 10 gallon increments ect. Zwave is a wireless remote control setup. A cheap Vera lite controller can be had for $60. Appliance 15 amp modules and dual 10 amp plug in modules are about $30. Vera can do simple on-off commands, dimming, or commands based on a time schedule, including sunrise, sunset. Vera can also do 'Scenes' where sequences or macros can be easily built to do sequential, scheduled, or if-then commands. All of this cam be overseen or operated from a cell phone or computer.

For the controller, two pairs of wires come in, one pair each motor. They get joined green to green and red to red. the power comes from four 12v automotive type solenoids(1, 2, 3, 4) powered by transformers connected to the Zwave modules. The joined red and green wires go to the solenoids. Red goes to 1 and 3. Green goes to 2 and 4. With 4 zwave modules, scenes can be created to power the solenoids reversing the polarity of the power to the motors. A little tinkering would give the exact amount of time for the extension and retraction of the light dep tarp. The tarp motors can be run from a battery.

That's pretty much what the smart controllers i have been building do. The ewelink program i use does scenes and all the stuff you are talking about. It can also interface with other home automation programs., But i think you have made it a little more complicated then it has to be, and i don't see how it could work.

What do you need a solenoid for? Do you mean a relay? I'm not sure what you would use 12v for because all depp motors are 24v. Also there are limits on the motors so there it's no need for tinkering to figure out how long the controller should power the motor.
If you want you can PM me and i can help you with it. It it's allot easier then you think it is.

 

[CrushnYuba]

Great thread everyone. Thanks Crush for sharing your build!


If the roll-up sides are on a thermostat and the light-dep is on a timer, what happen when it's 7pm and it's still too hot for the roll-up sides to close but the light-dep starts rolling over the sides? Is that something you solved with your controller or are the roll-up sides able to close under the light-dep?

Both. The black out rolls over the sides when they are up no problem. In mid summer, i just leave the sides up.
Most thermostats out there are programmable for different times a day. You can just use a 30$ Honeywell from the hardware store that you would use in your home. They have like 4 different time periods for each day.

 

[shredGnar]

Yea.. Max power has good cheap motors. Their controllers are total junk.
I have tried a few different systems. I recently tried a rack and pinion interior cover like forever flowering or grow tech. I think roll up is still the best. I think the ultimate design right now is double layer clear poly with a black out roll up structure inside of it. I saw 4 seasons has a nice design i ripped off.
Interior structure prevents rain from building up in the black out pins. Also makes double clear with inflation easier.. Adds to insulation.

I think the blackout structure inside the double poly would be perfect for where I live.

What sizes would you use? Seems like a 20' wide inside a 24' would work well.

Would the inside blackout greenhouse need ventilation as well? I assume the larger double poly hoop would act as a lung room, and you could exchange air with it to manage the climate?

Thanks for sharing man, been wanting to learn more about greenhouses.

 

[CrushnYuba]

A 20 inside a 24 would work well. You don't quite need that much clearance though. The last one i built had about a foot of clearance on each side. I think it holds heat better with a 1 ft air gap. At night you can shut the black out while you are heating and it's like a third layer of plastic.

I only vented the inside structure. Mounted a big shutter fan to the outside structure and used a light trap as a duct to connect it too the inside structure. Did the same thing on the other end for a shutter intake. I mostly only use exhaust for removing moisture. Cooling is passive ventilation and when it's blacked out it stays pretty cool.

There isn't a large volume of air between the inside and outside structure. I don't know how affective of a lung room it would be.

I don't even use the greenhouses anymore that i shared in this thread. I needed storage space so they are now barns, lol. I'll share the next one i build. I think my next project will be an acre of long 12ft wide tunnels terraced into a hillside to replace an outdoor garden

 

[Zeez]

That's pretty much what the smart controllers i have been building do. The ewelink program i use does scenes and all the stuff you are talking about. It can also interface with other home automation programs., But i think you have made it a little more complicated then it has to be, and i don't see how it could work.

What do you need a solenoid for? Do you mean a relay? I'm not sure what you would use 12v for because all depp motors are 24v. Also there are limits on the motors so there it's no need for tinkering to figure out how long the controller should power the motor.
If you want you can PM me and i can help you with it. It it's allot easier then you think it is.

Hi, Bad terminology I guess. It's about the same - using one voltage to control another. I'm planning on doing it in the spring and for the moment am stuck on finding a supplier for the galvanized hoops. Most of the companies are in Colorado or Cali. Looking for a northeast supplier. I haven't got to the motors (24v you're right) yet except that it's way cheeper to get them direct from China. Alibaba has a bunch.

The Zwave controllers can handle timing to the second. That's what I'm thinking. A limit switch would be another option for controlling the rolling unrolling cycle.

I like this type of roller system but am having trouble finding options on sources. If necessary, maybe a counterweight pulley system to pull the roller down from the top where the roof pitch is not so steep.

 

[CrushnYuba]

There are limit switches inside the motor you posted a picture of. That little blue dial you can hardy see. Its never done by time. It's done by limit switches inside the motors that stop them after they make x amount of revolutions. Or its done with external limit switches that stop it when it gets to a spot on the greenhouse.

There is no need for counterweight pully systems. The steel bar and rolled up plastic weighs allot. You don't have to reinvent the wheel.

And you can just get galvanized pipe from home depot to make your hoops. You should read the whole thread. It's all easier then you think.

 

[Zeez]

Maybe an electric bender is the way to go. Doing a couple for other people it would pay it off.

I might have missed this in the read.
Does the 1 3/8" fit inside the 1 5/8", so you sleeve and bolt it to join them?

 

[Steven/nevetS]

Could be a stuipid or simple somoution or queirey on my part but do you guys use or have ever used the storage propierties of different 50gal drums?
Trying out different non flamable liquids?
I know some use water barrells to store heat from day to night.
Add to that a system of cold or hot pipes running along side if you need to lower or raise temps.
Or am i not following correctly?

 

[CrushnYuba]

Zeez: a cheap jig does bend pretty damn perfectly. If you are doing 1 3/8 pipe, that's what i would recommend using. A jig does a better, faster job then an inexpensive rolling bender. A 5k$ + hydrauic bender is another story. They kick ass. But a cheap non hydraulic that needs to make multiple passes is not as good as a jig.
I use a hydraulic bender for square steel. But for fence pipe, a jig is where it's at.

The 1 3/8th pipe is swaged on one end so it sleeves into another piece of 1 3/8th pipe. The 1 3/8 pipe does sleeve into the 1 5/8th post. But the 1 5/8 is for the foundation post, not for the hoop. You bang it into the ground.

Steven: i have messed with barrels for heat storage. lt just doesn't do enough. It uses so much damn space in the greenhouse. All it can really do is hold enough energy to prevent freezing. You should check out the Chinese passive solar greenhouses though. They use brick and clay to hold heat. Only the south wall is plastic. The chinese got that shit down.

 

[Zeez]

Good stuff. Thanks CY.

What do you figure on the base tubes? Auger holes with quickcrete anchors?

 

[CrushnYuba]

Depends what kind of ground you have. I usually just pound the 1 5/8 posts into the ground with a sledge. As deep As you can go.

Might concrete a few footings depending where your frost line is at.

 

[shredGnar]

A 20 inside a 24 would work well. You don't quite need that much clearance though. The last one i built had about a foot of clearance on each side. I think it holds heat better with a 1 ft air gap. At night you can shut the black out while you are heating and it's like a third layer of plastic.

I only vented the inside structure. Mounted a big shutter fan to the outside structure and used a light trap as a duct to connect it too the inside structure. Did the same thing on the other end for a shutter intake. I mostly only use exhaust for removing moisture. Cooling is passive ventilation and when it's blacked out it stays pretty cool.

There isn't a large volume of air between the inside and outside structure. I don't know how affective of a lung room it would be.

I don't even use the greenhouses anymore that i shared in this thread. I needed storage space so they are now barns, lol. I'll share the next one i build. I think my next project will be an acre of long 12ft wide tunnels terraced into a hillside to replace an outdoor garden

Thanks for the response. I figured a 20' inside a 24' would be easy since 20' and 24' jigs are cheap. I didn't see a 22' jig.

I assume only the larger outside greenhouse would have roll up sides? As you said, I assume there wouldn't be much need for cooling when the shade tarp is pulled?

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions

 

[Zeez]

I checked out some tube vids on bending 1 3/8" top rail with a jig. It looks ridiculously easy to get very good results. There's one with a granny getting it done.

Choosing a covering, are there strength or light transmission characteristics to look for?
Any recommended suppliers?

 

[CrushnYuba]

Shred gnar: yea, i have never seen a 22ft premade jig for sale. Just 20 and 24. You could make your own though.
The inside frame it's just for black out. No clear plastic. You will need to exhaust to remove moisture when it's blacked out. Not a big fan to cool. Just a smallish one. I don't really use fans to cool. I use roll up vents.

Zeez: i have seen the granny vid. Top rail ain't super easy but with a bar for leverage it's not hard.
There are allot of types of plastic. The 3 main constructions are plain poly, woven poly, and poly with string reinforcement. Then there are different coatings. The woven and string reinforced stuff is stronger but more expensive. It's also much heavier do it's hard to stretch it as tight as regular 6 mil poly, and i don't think you can easily do double layer with blower for insulation.
If you install regular cheap 6 mil poly well it will probably last just as long as anything else. Just about all poly it's warrantied for 4 years against yellowing and uv damage. I have never had 6 mil rip from wind before 4 years. I have ripped it from dumb stuff happening though like accidentally shoving something sharp through it.
2 layers of cheap 6 mil with a blower inflating a gap is less expensive then 1 layer of woven and insulates twice as well.
Peaceful valley in norcal has good prices. They ship groworganic.com

 

[Zeez]

CY, You're killing it with the GH info. TY.

Ordered jig today for a 12'.

What do you think about clips like this for the ends and what's your recommend for the bottom? Tracks?.

 

[CrushnYuba]

Those clips are great. I got piles of them i use for random stuff. But they are really temporary clips for single season use. Your plastic will eventually tear with them. You should check out the instructions for the bender. They have some cool instructions ideas.

For your clear plastic you want to use wire lock and channel going the whole length of the greenhouse and endwalls. The wire lock will stretch that plastic super tight as it locks in. The channel will bend to your end hoops.

 

[gaiusmarius]

[URL=https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4374/36907692786_4c47525f06.jpg]View Image[/url]0907171023 by Yuba Crushin, on Flickr
auto depp
[URL=https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4388/36925725282_b20a2b1c2d.jpg]View Image[/url]0907171026 by Yuba Crushin, on Flickr
motorized roll up sides
[URL=https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4438/36954593831_b663274eac.jpg]View Image[/url]0907171030 by Yuba Crushin, on Flickr
dosatron like fert injector. Feeds multiple gardens.

can you break it down a bit how you did the automated light dep build.

 

[CrushnYuba]

It's really the same as a roll up side. You can just coppy the design in the pictures. Maybe i can take closer up pictures. It's all stuff from home depot other then the motor. The rolling pin is top rail going the length of the greenhouse connected with screws.
The arm telescopes. It's just 1" conduit sleeved inside top rail. And the hinge at the base is just a u bracket with a bolt and a few washers.

The motor connects the arm to the rolling pin.

The controller it's just a simple dc motor reverse circuit consisting of a dpdt relay and a timer. It's either powered by a 24v power supply or 2 cheap car batteries and a solar panel.

 

[Zeez]

I'm planning on putting the GH next to a house. What do you think about putting reflective mylar or another type of reflective on the dark side?