DIY and other hydroponic formulas.

[Three Berries]

Very cool TB. Are those 5-gallon containers? What do you have on top of the soil in the large pot friend? I can't make it out. TB, 1200 ppm CaCl2 can raise the pH and lockout some nutrients, and cause the tips to yellow. I always leave my leaves until the flowers are formed because defoliating a plant is very stressful. The leaves store food for later use in flowering and is very important during the fade. You have a good start there, keep me posted so we can get ya some nice flowers off those plants. .

3.5 gal for the large pot. it has a fine mesh drawstring filter bag as a pot liner. Experimenting with it to keep the bugs away but it's, not needed due to the Mosquito Bits I use and I use smaller buckets to start and can't use the mesh in that. so the experiment is a bust for me. Though if one plants directly in big pots it would be beneficial I would guess.

I watch the pH and the high ppm stuff as a top treat is not a lot but seems to be frequently needed. I have a hard time getting the needed nutes when just relying on the need for watering. The yellowing the Ca stops is the between the veins on the upper leaves as a first sign. I can add a 1/4-1/2 cup of the strong Ca/Mg mix top of the soil and it goes right away for a couple of days. My nute mix normally is under 2000ppm with normal amounts of Ca and Mg.

Still experimenting but if I go with light nute mixes they just stall out.

I have seen no issues with the foliar feeding at one or two times a week. No leaf build up or damage. Don't think it would be an issue as long as you have good air flow.

 

[Creeperpark]

3.5 gal for the large pot. it has a fine mesh drawstring filter bag as a pot liner. Experimenting with it to keep the bugs away but it's, not needed due to the Mosquito Bits I use and I use smaller buckets to start and can't use the mesh in that. so the experiment is a bust for me. Though if one plants directly in big pots it would be beneficial I would guess.

I watch the pH and the high ppm stuff as a top treat is not a lot but seems to be frequently needed. I have a hard time getting the needed nutes when just relying on the need for watering. The yellowing the Ca stops is the between the veins on the upper leaves as a first sign. I can add a 1/4-1/2 cup of the strong Ca/Mg mix top of the soil and it goes right away for a couple of days. My nute mix normally is under 2000ppm with normal amounts of Ca and Mg.

Still experimenting but if I go with light nute mixes they just stall out.

I have seen no issues with the foliar feeding at one or two times a week. No leaf build up or damage. Don't think it would be an issue as long as you have good air flow.

Are you happy with your grow friend?

 

[Three Berries]

Are you happy with your grow friend?

Keeps me busy.

 

[Creeperpark]

Keeps me busy.

In order for calcium to move from the soil to the top of the plant, it can only travel by transpiration. When a plant moves a lot of water in the container quickly and the water is fortified with calcium the plant will transport all the calcium it needs. However, if a plant doesn't move water the calcium will not transport no matter how much calcium is in the soil. That is key with calcium uptake. Only 40 to 126 ppm of cal-mag in pure water is enough if a plant is moving the water from the roots to the leaves quickly.

 

[Three Berries]

In order for calcium to move from the soil to the top of the plant, it can only travel by transpiration. When a plant moves a lot of water in the container quickly and the water is fortified with calcium the plant will transport all the calcium it needs. However, if a plant doesn't move water the calcium will not transport no matter how much calcium is in the soil. That is key with calcium uptake. Only 40 to 126 ppm of cal-mag in pure water is enough if a plant is moving the water from the roots to the leaves quickly.

So why does the plant not transpire water?

 

[Creeperpark]

So why does the plant not transpire water?

There can be a lot of common reasons, lack of ventilation, too cool temps, too dense potting mix, over, or under-watering, over-fed plants, wrong fertilizer given at the wrong time, and light intensity. When a plant transpires a lot of nutrient water through it's system, the nutrients move but also stay so to speak. Calcium in water is moved in this manner and water is the transporting vehicle to move calcium from the roots to the leaves. Soil can have a lot of calcium but if the plant can't transpire water from the soil the plant can't get enough calcium.

 

[Three Berries]

There can be a lot of common reasons, lack of ventilation, too cool temps, too dense potting mix, over, or under-watering, over-fed plants, wrong fertilizer given at the wrong time, and light intensity. When a plant transpires a lot of nutrient water through it's system, the nutrients move but also stay so to speak. Calcium in water is moved in this manner and water is the transporting vehicle to move calcium from the roots to the leaves. Soil can have a lot of calcium but if the plant can't transpire water from the soil the plant can't get enough calcium.

The problem I have is if I water, then it takes at least a week before it needs watered again. Mix is Happy frog with added perlite, and this time I did not compact the new soil in the repot. pH is good in and out, .6.6 in 6.4 out, ventilation is good with the fan cycling to keep a VPD of 1-.10-1.00 probably 4 or 5 times an hour. Temp 75F-80F

Didn't go 24 hrs and started getting the yellow margins between the veins on the top. Light is about 2' above the plant, 100w Running 18/6 cycle.

I've got some MaterBlend fert. And when I go by their formula the plants start starving to death. I should try again. I have two smaller ones I just repotted I could flush and go MB by the book good or bad. But both of them look great. It's the big one I can't keep from yellowing. Looking bad again today.

 

[exploziv]

At that vpd if you have to wait a week to water again something sounds out of whack! Maybe you have to use smaller pots, or change your growing media. I had problems in soil in the past as well. Now in coco its a bit better.

 

[Three Berries]

At that vpd if you have to wait a week to water again something sounds out of whack! Maybe you have to use smaller pots, or change your growing media. I had problems in soil in the past as well. Now in coco its a bit better.

I start out in 16oz>6 qt>3.5 Gal. And added 20% more perlite to the soil.

The last 4 have started in a little coco seed starter plugs in the solo cup with happy frog. When I started topdressing with CaCl2 then they started using more water. You could see it in how more often the fan had to cycle.

I took out the 100w light and put in another 65w. That's what I ran last time, 2-65w. The 100w VIPARSPECTRA only name brand I got, will go in the flower tent with two 85w.

This all goes back to me switching to rainwater, LEDs and tents at the same time, vs HPS/LED, insulated closet and well water.

 

[exploziv]

I got 5 years of wondering what I was doing bad in soil behind me, so I can almost feel the problems you are having.. I am still not sure if I was doing something bad or I was just pushing it more than it can go as feeding hungry plants goes. I can just tell you switching to coco helped.
I don't say soil isn't good, by maybe for indoor and plants under high intensity leds, soil is not the answer. I would happly use it outdoors where I don't pay for electricity, but not indoors anymore.

 

[Three Berries]

I got 5 years of wondering what I was doing bad in soil behind me, so I can almost feel the problems you are having.. I am still not sure if I was doing something bad or I was just pushing it more than it can go as feeding hungry plants goes. I can just tell you switching to coco helped.
I don't say soil isn't good, by maybe for indoor and plants under high intensity leds, soil is not the answer. I would happly use it outdoors where I don't pay for electricity, but not indoors anymore.

I was looking at some and they were all touted as holding water longer between watering. Is this true as this is what I am already fighting? High humidity in the Midwest doesn't help.

 

[exploziv]

Coco can keep more water than soil, but it also keeps more air. I have the really fibrous fiber coco and it basically can't be overwatered. I am actually watering to runoff every few hours now. Used to be every hour just weeks ago.
It also enables me to control the nutrition and ph they get much better. But, before jumping to Coco you should research a bit into it, as you will need to provide even more CalMag with each watering than in soil, and also you'll need to buffer yor coco before use unless u buy the premium washed and buffered one in a bag. If it worked for me doen't mean it will also work for you. But I think there is a good chance it could. You should also make sure the vpd you're telling is the real deal. Make sure the rh sensor is not way off. Sometimes they are shit since new, sometimes they drift off way too fast. You telling me there high humidity doesn't help in there.. makes me wonder if that vpd is the real vpd. I would expect them to drink more and faster even in soil. I can't know for sure if that is your problem or your only problem, but I would say it's worth to recheck everything just to make sure there's no other hidden problems adding to what is happening to your plants.

 

[Creeperpark]

The first mistake made was adding perlite to Happy frog, the second was feeding the plant before it needed it. I see bad recommendations on the internet all the time and at the grow stores about adding perlite just to make sales. You don't need to do anything but just add plain pure water without cal-mag because Happy Frog is fortified with calcium and magnesium already. Take it easy at first using a good soil mix, and give it a chance to work for you. If you use clean water you should not have to feed for 4 to 6 weeks by watering without discharge out the bottom. Your pure water will release all the nutrients needed when the pH is below 7. for a few weeks. When you add fertilizer to a already high EC the salts will pull water away from the plant root instead of feeding the roots.

 

[Creeperpark]

Coco can keep more water than soil, but it also keeps more air. I have the really fibrous fiber coco and it basically can't be overwatered. I am actually watering to runoff every few hours now. Used to be every hour just weeks ago.
It also enables me to control the nutrition and ph they get much better. But, before jumping to Coco you should research a bit into it, as you will need to provide even more CalMag with each watering than in soil, and also you'll need to buffer yor coco before use unless u buy the premium washed and buffered one in a bag. If it worked for me doen't mean it will also work for you. But I think there is a good chance it could. You should also make sure the vpd you're telling is the real deal. Make sure the rh sensor is not way off. Sometimes they are shit since new, sometimes they drift off way too fast. You telling me there high humidity doesn't help in there.. makes me wonder if that vpd is the real vpd. I would expect them to drink more and faster even in soil. I can't know for sure if that is your problem or your only problem, but I would say it's worth to recheck everything just to make sure there's no other hidden problems adding to what is happening to your plants.

Feeding every hour, how much discharge should one have to keep the salt build-up down? Are you using recycling or drain to waste?

 

[Three Berries]

The first mistake made was adding perlite to Happy frog, the second was feeding the plant before it needed it. I see bad recommendations on the internet all the time and at the grow stores about adding perlite just to make sales. You don't need to do anything but just add plain pure water without cal-mag because Happy Frog is fortified with calcium and magnesium already. Take it easy at first using a good soil mix, and give it a chance to work for you. If you use clean water you should not have to feed for 4 to 6 weeks by watering without discharge out the bottom. Your pure water will release all the nutrients needed when the pH is below 7. for a few weeks. When you add fertilizer to a already high EC the salts will pull water away from the plant root instead of feeding the roots.

I don't feed until they show signs of need. They get wet down with well water and don't get nutes until out of the solo cup. The repots get just water too for the first watering.

I added the perlite and went to a bigger pot. Was at 2 gallon, now 3.5 for the late veg and flowering, It's a lot wider pot. Showing some nute burn now but it was expected. It was the first nutes two days ago since the repot on the 18th.

 

[Creeperpark]

I got 5 years of wondering what I was doing bad in soil behind me, so I can almost feel the problems you are having.. I am still not sure if I was doing something bad or I was just pushing it more than it can go as feeding hungry plants goes. I can just tell you switching to coco helped.
I don't say soil isn't good, by maybe for indoor and plants under high intensity leds, soil is not the answer. I would happly use it outdoors where I don't pay for electricity, but not indoors anymore.

The problem with the last grow was you were using 60% tap water and it raise the alkalinity or hydroxyl content blocking calcium uptake. When using tap and adding acid the pH will always rise and only with repeated treatments with acid can the water be stabilized. When you add acid one time and then use it the pH shoots to the top of the scale. The problem with using all that acid is the by-product is left behind over time and builds up in the root zone in small containers. When this happens the leaves will bronze during flowering.

 

[Three Berries]

The problem with the last grow was you were using 60% tap water and it raise the alkalinity or hydroxyl content blocking calcium uptake. When using tap and adding acid the pH will always rise and only with repeated treatments with acid can the water be stabilized. When you add acid one time and then use it the pH shoots to the top of the scale. The problem with using all that acid is the by-product is left behind over time and builds up in the root zone in small containers. When this happens the leaves will bronze during flowering.

So if I start with hard water at 7.5 or so 440ppm, add my tablespoon of nutes and a couple of the CaCL2. It drops the pH down around 6.3-6.5 or so.

Was the calcium and magnesium liberated from the carbonate by the acid in the fertilizer? I generally see bubbles from CO2. I end up using about a 3/4-1 gram or so a gallon of KOH flakes to bring the pH up to 6.7.

 

[exploziv]

I don't have many experience but the standard 3-5 % runoff seems to work. If coco isn't salty or feed high ec you don't even need to do it every watering. I reused runoff as well for testing for about 1-2 weeks or so, it gone well, but not sure indoors it really saves enaugh water to not go DTW as first option..

 

[Creeperpark]

So if I start with hard water at 7.5 or so 440ppm, add my tablespoon of nutes and a couple of the CaCL2. It drops the pH down around 6.3-6.5 or so.

Was the calcium and magnesium liberated from the carbonate by the acid in the fertilizer? I generally see bubbles from CO2. I end up using about a 3/4-1 gram or so a gallon of KOH flakes to bring the pH up to 6.7.

"The problem with the last grow" above post was for exploziv. about the last grow he just finished.

ThreeBerries, when you add a lot of ppm that's unknown ppm in the water to the soil it collects in the soil. The unknown ppm that is suspended in the water also blocks new young receptor sites from the macro and micronutrients that the plant would normally use. If your plant shuts down it will slow water nutrient transport because of the mismatch in the receptors. If there's nothing in the water the plant can use it will just shut down water nutrient transport. Always start with pure clean water with a very low ppm to prevent nutrient receptor blockage. Your plants have to sort through a lot of unknown ppm just to get a small number of nutrients. If you want to grow fast and furriest you need to start with pure clean water.

 

[exploziv]

When you add a lot of ppm that's unknown.. that's also a big part of what the plant gets, it's also harder to judge plants by looking at them when you not sure what they been eating. Having a proper feed content for your plants means you can use a lower ec an plants won't show deficiencies. I will add that I am just learning coco and good nutition, but what I see amazes me!