Distinguished and Nurtured Kind

[gmanwho]

Chem Sis x topanga please! ...I was just thinking last night I should pop more of the topanga s1’s Ottoman made

been told by a few that there where gold in those packs.. i gave him the pk back a few months ago. not sure if he's working her again.

 

[dank.frank]

I'm honestly not 100% sure who made the beans. Melty has shared a few gems with me over the years that others had made. They might be seeds Otto made. I know I have some of the S1's he made. Saw a killer pheno posted by StRa of the Chem Sis x Nevs Haze and it really got my itch to sort something with Sis in it. She's my personal favorite, in terms of how she breeds when it comes to Chems. Some of the phenos that surface really pack a narcotic punch I just adore.

I've wanted to run that PK or it's offspring for a minute. Her and the Hollywood / LA PK, which for all I know are the same cut as the Topanga.

Either way, Sis x PK should hold some fire and if I don't get enough females from the various prior seeds sprouted, it only makes sense to drop some fems and take a short cut. After that, I'll likely need to narrow the field before sprouting anything else. Although, I tend to be fairly picky about what actually makes the cut. I'm not really looking to hold males either, so that makes things a bit faster.



dank.Frank

 

[trichrider]

49" x 25.5" x 11" final interior dimensions for the soil bed. Exterior is 54" x 27.5" x 15" It should fit this time. Roughly 51 gallons of soil will fit. I'll likely only use 48 gallons. Giving me 6-8 gallons per plant depending how many I flower at a time. I'm content with this.

Using a heavy gauge wire mesh to hold the soil in the bottom. Will put a double layer of landscaping fabric on the bottom and line the sides with 6mil plastic sheeting. Underneath the bed is a 40mil PVC shower pan liner. Not entirely sure how to utilize it to the most efficiency, but it will be used to catch water. Still working on that conceptually. The bed itself has 15" legs, which leaves a 4" space from the bottom of the bed to the floor. Just enough to let it drain and get air circulation around the whole room.

The wood is all pressure treated 1 x 6 and 2 x 6 for the legs. It has been exposed to the elements for over a year, although not getting wet. It should be a non-issue at this point to use it.

View Image



I never posted a pic with the darkroom louvers installed in the door of the flower room. The bottom of the louver is at 15" and they are 8" square. This means, any new airflow coming into the room is coming in at a height that is level with the soil and will flow easily under the canopy to ensure enough fresh air is moving through the plants.

View Image


Eventually, I'll have some plants to put in this beast.



dank.Frank

i would humbly suggest cross braces to keep that wire from sagging under 50 gal. medium and WATER/plant weight.
don't know how much you will water daily but i shoot for at least 300 milliliters per plant per day(just about a cup) and while not watering daily, or waiting to water every 3 day period adds up to almost 2 lbs. per plant + medium. as you said..."that mix holds alot of water" which will be most of your weight.

if you can stand on that wire, i would say you're golden tho'.


be well

 

[Mengsk]

Wow I'm really impressed what everyone is doing with their soil mixes

 

[dank.frank]

@trichrider - It's not a bad suggestion. I've build beds this style before that were bigger and used cross bracing to support some of the weight. I have "u" shaped nails holding the wire in place, which is a given, but I'm *hoping* it doesn't need the cross bracing, being smaller in the first place. I've been wrong before though!!! I opted not to because I didn't want to sacrifice soil volume.

@Mengsk - we take our hobby seriously here at ICmag. So many amazing growers with an unlimited amount of knowledge and talent have passed through these boards over the years. I've tried to soak it all in like a sponge. Every time I start a new thread, it's a culmination of the knowledge this place holds.

A more detailed breakdown of the soil mix, so you can see where the nutrition is coming from; also a break down for smaller soil volumes:

dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

I've gotten asked countless times over the years for the weight of various amendments. It would have come in handy for myself, years ago, if this type of information was made available. With that in mind, this chart, expresses the weight (in grams) of various amendments in different volumes, per cup. Keeping in mind, the brand or formulation of the material can change the weight, but this chart is certainly better than not having the information at all.

These weights can be converted to pounds (lbs) by simply dividing them by 454 and then plugged into the equations back on page 2 for figuring out NPK values in pounds per acre.

dank.Frank

 

[nickman]

@Nickman - Cobalt Haze is ABF Seeds, Whadezlrg's multiple cup winning SSH x [Mendo Montage x (Blue Dream/Williams Wonder F3)]. It's a mutli-poly for sure, and will toss out a wide range of phenos as intended, but they will all be dank I'm sure. Abja knows what he's doing. The BubbaDutch SSH x Digi Bx1 is in fact a blueberry haze, though, those seeds are pushing 6 years old. I'm afraid much of my seed collection has gone dormant.

@White Beard - Yes. It's all mixed into the soil at the very beginning before being put into the soil bed. I'll let it compost a couple of weeks while in the bed before anything is actually planted in it though. Transplants will go into this soil as they mature and need up-potted.

@Buddha - 22 amendments. ALL necessary! LOL. I know it seems like a grab bag, but the math is solid and sound. Plants should by all default love the mix. Time will tell. Maybe they hate it and I start over from square one.

I seriously doubt they will be unhappy. There are things I noticed with the NSPB I said I'd always fix. There was a version 2.0 of the NSPB made, but never progressed with. Wasn't really much of a need. There are things I noticed with the basic amendment formula based on my own experience and lots of feedback from other growers that needed adjusted. This new mix sort of addresses the issues with both the previous.

I'm very interested to see if things grow differently with all the potassium present in the new mix. I've run other mixes with these levels before and noticed better resin production, but they were outside plants, which means too many variables to really pinpoint anything. Sticking withing a set N-P-K ratio is completely new though. The 4-6-5 bit was gleamed from scientists in Israel and some of their published data. Again, time will tell. Building a mix by numbers instead of by plant dictated response is a huge shift for me in practice.



dank.Frank

Hey Frank, hows it going.?. I know you know what you are doing - I just wonder= how do you know what’s doing what with all those different ingredients...

I’d be too nervous with a bunch of ingredients like that. Kinda like how I just previously did with some of my plants. I think I just mixed too much stuff together without knowing what’s gonna do what and it resulted in some problems. Plants are recovering fine now though...!!!...

Then again, I make things more complicated than they are sometimes...!!!... ...

 

[dank.frank]

That's why I went back and made another chart showing the NPK contributions of each item in respect to the whole. Not all of this will be available for uptake at the same exact time.

Keeping in mind, not all these items are actually there for "fertilizer" purposes, but for what they add to the whole, even if there are some residual nutritional values being added. For example, I use a food grade agriculture product called Red Lake Earth Diatomaceous Earth + Calcium Bentonite. I'm after the silica and the positively charged clay particles to increase CEC and to ensure mobile ions are held in place within the soil.

I only recently learned what the NPK value of dried molasses was. I knew it was sprayed on soybean hulls but I never knew what they really contributed to the whole, outside of the molasses being an excellent food source for microbial activity. However, the company (Stockade) I order from, finally caught on to how I've been using their product for the past decade or so and started marketing a soil amendment as well.

The basic amendment formula was a bit high in nitrogen when the plants first start growing in the mix and showed noticeable nutrient burn to younger plants. The NSPB could leave plants a bit hungry after 10wks of flower. The answer isn't really in reducing the amount of nutrition available in the soil, but rather, adjusting the ratio of which compounds are in the mix. For example, both the basic amendment recipe and this new recipe each have 1c of blood meal in them. One mix is 11 gallons and the other is 58 gallons. However, we only need so much quick, instant nitrogen, which blood meal provides. We'll get the rest of the nitrogen in the larger mix by using products that biodegrade at differing, yet slower rates.

One of the biggest factors to consider is an items hardness, which directly relates to how quickly organic inputs biodegrade and become available for plant nutrition. This is impacted by how (colony populations) much biological activity you have as well. Larger populations = faster decomposition = higher nutrient availability.

Ultimately, the confidence comes from doing something so many times. I've made hundreds of various soil mixes for hundreds of different people in different situations.

Building a soil from scratch is EASY compared to bio-remediation of acreage that has been mistreated and pumped full of chemicals for half a century. Imagine increasing the CEC of a sandy loam that sits at 3 with an organic matter content of actual 0. Try telling someone who has made millions farming that land they need to incorporate 20 tons of compost per acre for the next 3 years, while intentionally growing obnoxious invasive weeds. (dynamic accumulators). Many people who are insanely successful at farming have absolutely no idea at all what they are doing, especially when it comes to the soil. They just follow what the ag reps, market consultant, and risk management people tell them. They hire out the labor for nearly every task and their job is ensuring the programs get run and followed by all hands on deck.

I'll get a soil test done once this mix has sat for a couple weeks and post the results. I'll also not hold any criticisms when it comes to how this soil performs. I do fully expect it will be smooth sailing though. Just keep watching and if everything works, save the picture of the mix and file it away for a rainy day.



dank.Frank

 

[nickman]

That's why I went back and made another chart showing the NPK contributions of each item in respect to the whole. Not all of this will be available for uptake at the same exact time.

Keeping in mind, not all these items are actually there for "fertilizer" purposes, but for what they add to the whole, even if there are some residual nutritional values being added. For example, I use a food grade agriculture product called Red Lake Earth Diatomaceous Earth + Calcium Bentonite. I'm after the silica and the positively charged clay particles to increase CEC and to ensure mobile ions are held in place within the soil.

I only recently learned what the NPK value of dried molasses was. I knew it was sprayed on soybean hulls but I never knew what they really contributed to the whole, outside of the molasses being an excellent food source for microbial activity. However, the company (Stockade) I order from, finally caught on to how I've been using their product for the past decade or so and started marketing a soil amendment as well.

The basic amendment formula was a bit high in nitrogen when the plants first start growing in the mix and showed noticeable nutrient burn to younger plants. The NSPB could leave plants a bit hungry after 10wks of flower. The answer isn't really in reducing the amount of nutrition available in the soil, but rather, adjusting the ratio of which compounds are in the mix. For example, both the basic amendment recipe and this new recipe each have 1c of blood meal in them. One mix is 11 gallons and the other is 58 gallons. However, we only need so much quick, instant nitrogen, which blood meal provides. We'll get the rest of the nitrogen in the larger mix by using products that biodegrade at differing, yet slower rates.

One of the biggest factors to consider is an items hardness, which directly relates to how quickly organic inputs biodegrade and become available for plant nutrition. This is impacted by how (colony populations) much biological activity you have as well. Larger populations = faster decomposition = higher nutrient availability.

Ultimately, the confidence comes from doing something so many times. I've made hundreds of various soil mixes for hundreds of different people in different situations.

Building a soil from scratch is EASY compared to bio-remediation of acreage that has been mistreated and pumped full of chemicals for half a century. Imagine increasing the CEC of a sandy loam that sits at 3 with an organic matter content of actual 0. Try telling someone who has made millions farming that land they need to incorporate 20 tons of compost per acre for the next 3 years, while intentionally growing obnoxious invasive weeds. (dynamic accumulators). Many people who are insanely successful at farming have absolutely no idea at all what they are doing, especially when it comes to the soil. They just follow what the ag reps, market consultant, and risk management people tell them. They hire out the labor for nearly every task and their job is ensuring the programs get run and followed by all hands on deck.

I'll get a soil test done once this mix has sat for a couple weeks and post the results. I'll also not hold any criticisms when it comes to how this soil performs. I do fully expect it will be smooth sailing though. Just keep watching and if everything works, save the picture of the mix and file it away for a rainy day.



dank.Frank

Oh trust me, this will most defenitly be saved for all this great info...

I’m trying to take in as much of this info as I can... my goal is to be growing in soil like this and not the commercal fox farm soil with added amendments...
I find this part of growing so interesting...!!!...

 

[dank.frank]

I've seen your posts in other places expressing your curiosity about soil. I'm glad you found this thread and are following along. Some of the very basic need to know stuff is happening in these pages, for the very purpose of helping others grasp the concept.

If you really learn about soil, there is nothing you can't grow, no matter what part of the world you end up. Being able to look at dirt and understanding what it needs and how to make a crop perform, is without question, the greatest asset I ever picked up from growing cannabis. If I had only learned to read bottles, the only thing I'd ever grow is cannabis. Learning about soil made it possible to grow quite literally anything.

I'd know absolutely nothing about gardening if it wasn't for my rebellious use of cannabis. It's really quite a profound thought.



dank.Frank

 

[nickman]

I've seen your posts in other places expressing your curiosity about soil. I'm glad you found this thread and are following along. Some of the very basic need to know stuff is happening in these pages, for the very purpose of helping others grasp the concept.

If you really learn about soil, there is nothing you can't grow, no matter what part of the world you end up. Being able to look at dirt and understanding what it needs and how to make a crop perform, is without question, the greatest asset I ever picked up from growing cannabis. If I had only learned to read bottles, the only thing I'd ever grow is cannabis. Learning about soil made it possible to grow quite literally anything.

I'd know absolutely nothing about gardening if it wasn't for my rebellious use of cannabis. It's really quite a profound thought.



dank.Frank

I taught myself how to grow cannabis by basically finding this forum and reading my ass off...!!!... I intend to do the same with this soil aspect of growing...!!!...

Thanx to people like you that share what they have learned with others ...!!!...
I’m truely greatful ... ...


I’ve noticed such a difference in the plants ever since I stopped using those bottles to feed them ...!!!...

 

[dank.frank]

When I first started growing, it was organic simply because it was worth 30% more. I used a homemade aeroponics system at first. I did that for two runs before I got tired of organic nutes clogging emitters. I switched to soil and the same set of bottles. Added lime because I got tired of messing with pH. From there, I started adding as much as I could to the soil before planting.

Every step of the way, Overgrow and ICmag have been a part of that journey and learning curve. Without forums, who knows where I'd be in life. It'd be different, I know that much for sure. The whole purpose of doing a thread in my opinion, documenting the process, is giving back to this community by contributing information that might help others.



dank.Frank

 

[gaiusmarius]

When I first started growing, it was organic simply because it was worth 30% more. I used a homemade aeroponics system at first. I did that for two runs before I got tired of organic nutes clogging emitters. I switched to soil and the same set of bottles. Added lime because I got tired of messing with pH. From there, I started adding as much as I could to the soil before planting.

Every step of the way, Overgrow and ICmag have been a part of that journey and learning curve. Without forums, who knows where I'd be in life. It'd be different, I know that much for sure. The whole purpose of doing a thread in my opinion, documenting the process, is giving back to this community by contributing information that might help others.



dank.Frank

yep, the Forums helps one keep an edge too. as a resource it's actually priceless, specially if you know where to go to find what you are looking for.

it's people like you though, reporting about what they do that makes this place, we get to see those 30 years or what ever, worth of experience being thrown at the project. but it get better because you have hundreds of other more or less experienced guys out there chiming in with their specialized info. it's really priceless for one's education.

 

[dank.frank]

The two ABF Cobalt Haze with long tails are already above soil and opening their leaves. A third is just cracking the soils surface.
Told you I planted the last ones too deep. Grower error for sure.

Stoked to run these. I've wanted to run Deezy's SSH for years and this cross with her is the only legitimately released line featuring her, that I know of. The cross has great potential for resin output, bulk yields, and color. Fingers crossed for a purple sativa female. Anything with OGKB influence will be easy to spot either by growth rates or leaf structure.



dank.Frank

 

[Bmac1]

I remember salivating over the pics of that SSH a few years back. I wish i had the space to do a decent selection and find a beauty SSH.

 

[dank.frank]

From Deezy's albums, for those not in the know:

Seattle 2014:

Denver 2014

Norcal

There is a good reason I've wanted to see what was special about this SSH. Whadeezlrg is an excellent grower. If he's held this cut close as special, and by all accounts people seem to love, then I'm certainly interested in seeing what the offspring might hold. Not just any breeders work either, mind you, but one of his close growing buddies, projects. Someone who also knows and has experience with the plant and how to work with her.

I guess if you haven't already, you need to check out @alwaysbeflowering on insta. You'll see he's working with some very interesting projects. FWIW - there wouldn't be a Forum GSC for all to enjoy if not for Abja Roots. He's been around since day 1 and knows what good cannabis is. I trust his male selection. The elusive SSH as a mother. Had to grow it.



dank.Frank

 

[trichrider]

thanx for the two posts 125 & 126.
i'm making a list & checking it twice against my available resources.
right now doing a lame attempt at beds, but with plastic bins.
starting in 1/2 gal milk cartons, cutting off the bottoms, and plugging them into the "beds"...works pretty well except the bins aren't deep (6") enough.
if i ever get out to a store i plan on deeper totes.


oh yeah...there is NO drainage, so keeping an eye on watering is critical!


be well

 

[heady blunts]

so much love respect and positivity flowing through this thread! love the vibes.

melty reversed chem sis for some projects a couple years ago, and i’d bet those feminized seeds are from that era, making the sis the likely pollen donor for that pk cross.

i grew out some of the lucifer og x chem sis he made and enjoyed them very much.

i can’t agree enough with all the nice things you said about g_f’s snowman male. i enjoyed the gg4 cross a lot and got three easy keepers from the pack we popped. the gromberry glue was our fastest selection—a true 8 weeker—and we passers it on to a few growers in maine before i had to move.

tbh the plants i miss the most are the OGX x snowman. great knobby clobber nugs of halitosis and menthol. wickedly potent. would love to see some more of those.

frank i would be honored to give some of those fbpk a crack next year once i settle into a new garden. my favorite of all the stankbros gear i’ve grown!!

 

[dank.frank]

@trichrider - Not sure I could survive a bed or containers without drainage. My natural tendency is to over-water by default, so, having adequate drainage is a must for me!

@Heady - anything you want, you know it's yours. When you're ready to set roots, you know what to do, F.A.M.

Side note. I know not all the seeds I'm soaking are going to germinate. I need about 20 plants to ensure I'll have enough ladies to flower for a couple rounds.

I've got 4 seeds of Karma Genetics A5 Haze x White OG v2 soaking now. Went that direction over the Whitesnake, which is really a Sour/OG type cross. I'm looking for something more unique. It will just be luck of the draw.



dank.Frank

 

[nickman]

You can’t go wrong with whatever you pop from Karma ...!!!...