Distinguished and Nurtured Kind

[dank.frank]

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@Itsmychoice - Over the years and being in many various situations and growing in the shadows, one of the most difficult things to deal with is disposal of waste materials. It's not something growers think about when first starting, but you can't just throw somethings away. It has to be discarded as secretly and as invisibly as possible. (it's not "legal" everywhere)

So this time around, I decided, the SAFEST way to address some of those issues, is a soil bed. You only need to bring media ONCE to the location. There are no root balls or various batches of soil sitting at different stages for rotations. The system is self contained. Get worms involved then you can cycle fan leaves and stems as a quick compostable mulch, solving another issue with waste by product.

Granted, quick tear down is obviously NOT an option with a soil bed. Perhaps the one greatest down side. But then again, if you reduce the red flags of constantly carrying soil in and out and around, then perhaps you need not worry as much about a more permanent type installation.

Everything has it's pluses and minuses. First and foremost though, I think using a soil bed will help me create a better environment around the root zone, which by default means I'll have better medicine. That's the end goal. To grow the best I possibly can while attracting the least amount of attention.



dank.Frank

 

[nothernblue]

man this is some classic shit right here. thanks frank for holding it down over the years, hyped to see the grow progress. this one making me nostalgic !

 

[Itsmychoice]

Less to purchase and less to dispose of will be a big benefit. Being discreet is the only way to be. I cut the stalks out with a pointier version of this kind of saw. I cut a cone shaped 3” circle around the stalk. It’s quick and easy and gets all of the big pieces out. With that quick big drain are you going to try multi feedings in a day? Or is it going to be hot soil and water only? Sorry if I seem impatient it’s just cool to see.

 

[dank.frank]

It's certainly a water only, fully amended organic soil approach in my gardens. There are some things I'll likely utilize from time to time but for the most part, it'll be water only.

The soil mix I'll be using was discussed early in page 2-4 I think. It's still not 100% finished in terms of calculations. I'll get back to that very soon and post the completed mix that I'll be running in this thread.



dank.Frank

 

[nickman]

I really like that last sentence. Grow the best meds I can while attracting the least amount of attention.

 

[moses wellfleet]

A bed designed like this drains extremely well. I'd like to think I could put worm in it at some point, but I'm not sure they'll stick around with such an open bottom. Perhaps the landscape fabric will be enough to hold them...time will tell.

Narrow it down, not so much. I think it is simply a matter of everything’s coming together, being in balance. It's like each item is in some what dependent to the success of the whole, and with one thing missing, it is apparent in reduced over all health. If I had to guess though, I'd say it's related to using guano - bat and/or seabird. More specifically, I think it has a lot to do with bio-availability of P.

One of the things I'm excited to try is Mammoth P. I won't try it until I have established a couple cycles that perform consistently and then I'll see what impact it does or does not make.



dank.Frank

I agree narrowing down causation in an organic setting is difficult and less chance in a no till/low till setting.

You helped me create a soil mix in mid 2016 iirc. Shortly after that I joined Instagram and saw quite a few people posting about insect frass, it seemed to be the latest organic craze at the time.

When I started my low till containers I decided to experiment with different mulches. I first tried European oak tree leaves with pieces of oak bark on top to keep the leaves flat. Quite a variety of different bugs were introduced with the bark as I got it off decaying logs. Millipedes, pillbugs, Orbatid mites, centipedes, and springtails to name a few.

So while people were paying money for insect frass I was getting it for free, with all those insects living and dying, moulting and pooping on site. When the soil was about 3-4 runs in I had my best results with that system.

So if you think about it working out exactly what nutrients the plants are getting is impossible in that situation. But I guess it fits in the the organic mantra that you let the plant choose what it needs from the soil! Narrowing down not happening

At the moment I’m going the living mulch route and I’m not sure it is as good as my oak forest floor technique!!

 

[Lapides]

Starting to get exciting in here.


Your beds are a lot like the ones I was running, maybe a little bigger. There should be no reason worms DON'T stick around if you add them. I always had live ones in mine all over. I think I was telling you they would actually stay localized around the Blumat, right at the bases of the plants and drop loads of castings right there..


Good luck man!

 

[dank.frank]

Big respect, F.A.M. Thanks for all you do. You're threads are legendary.

Soaked 4 I-95 but I don't think they will sprout. Same with 6 BubbaDutch SSH x Digi Bx1, but, time will tell. Have 6 more Cobalt Haze that just went in coffee filters today.

Have 3 Snow Monkey growing. 3 Suzy Q Bx2. We'll get more plants in here eventually.



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

The Base Soil Mix going into the beds is modified from my personal potting media my organic sticky. Total volume is 58 gallons (in gallons):

21 compost
7.5 coir
12.5 peat
3 EWC
3 black kow
2.5 vermiculite
2.5 permatil
6 perlite

6.43 gallons in a cubic foot of soil. With 21 gallons of pine/hardwood compost and 12.5 of peat moss, I have roughly 5 cu ft of soil I need to amend with liming materials. The rule of thumb from BurnOne's Organic For Beginner's thread is 1c of Dolomite per cubic foot of low pH media. That means we need at least 5c of liming material in the mix.

My Basic Amendment Recipe sticky says per 1.5 cu ft. (x5 for volume):

1/3c dolomite - 1 2/3c
1/3c gypsum - 1 2/3c
2/3c oyster shell flour - 3 1/3c

We are going to alter that for this soil though, due to a larger amount of compost in this media. I have gotten plenty of PM's about people struggling with pH and not enough magnesium when growing chem/OG/sour lines, so I'm increasing the magnesium by increasing the ratio of dolomite in the mix.

2/3c dolomite - 3 1/3c
1/2c gypsum - 2 1/2c
1/3c hi-cal lime - 1 2/3c
1/3c aragonite / oyster shell flour - 1 2/3c

The original amendment plan went something like this:

When this bed was first discussed on pages 2-3, it was going to have more volume as a result of being deeper. I decided that was ultimately unnecessary. I had said that typical measured depth is 6.7" and would use that for increasing levels of depth for a 3-D volume measurement. Well, the bed is more or less 8 sq ft and 2x depth so I just generically measure amendment volume to hit 200-300-250 for a 20 sq ft space.

The results are interesting for 58 gallons of media. The first measurements represent recommendations for an NPK of 200-300-250 for 20 square foot of space. The second measurements would be amendment volumes if I followed the basic amendment recipe in the stick for 55 gallons (red are not included in the basic mix):

alfalfa meal - 1/2c + 1/8c
blood meal - 1/8c
bone meal - 1/3c + 1/4c
crab meal - 2/3c
feather meal - 1/8c
kelp meal - 1/3c + 1/8c
potassium sulfate - 1/8c
rock phosphate - 1/3c
seabird guano - *
*-High N Bat - 1c
*-High P Bat - 1/3c
sul-po-mag - 1/8c
symphony - 3/4c

alfalfa meal - 2.5c
blood meal - 5c
bone meal - 5c
crab meal - 2.5c
feather meal
kelp meal -5c
potassium sulfate
rock phosphate
seabird guano - 2.5c
--High N Bat
--High P Bat
sul-po-mag - 1/4c + 1 tbsp
symphony

One of two things is possible:
A.) The math for applying fertilizer by N-P-K per square foot simply does not work in a cannabis based organic soil bed or
B.) I have been seriously over-feeding the plants.

The volume difference between the two formulas is a bit bothersome, considering I know the amendment levels in the second set per the basic amendment recipe sticky work. The first set, the new NPK based amounts, seem like the plants would be seriously underfed.

Thoughts?



dank.Frank

 

[genetic freaked]

Looking like things are starting to roll over there DF.
The Snow Monkeys have great vigor! I’m throw up a pic of them in like 3 weeks so we can compare

 

[dank.frank]

Of this much I was comfortable and certain:

1 2/3c Aragonite
2 1/2c Azomite
1c Diatomaceous Earth/Calcium Bentonite
3 1/3c Dolomite
2 1/2c Dried Molasses
1/2c Elemental Sulfur
2 1/2c Gypsum
1 2/3c Hi-Cal Lime
2c Humic/Fulvic

Some additional math has finally been completed. I said earlier I wanted to post the NPK of my previous mixes to get an idea what they have historically been.

NSPB - NPK= 632-871-137; 4-5.5-0.87
Basic Amendment Mix - NPK= 795-709-205; 4-3.6-1
Garden Soil - NPK= 1171-1432-1069; 4-4.9-3.7

The thread target of 200-300-250 is not going to be nearly enough is what this tells me in the broad sense. Also suggests my plants have been K deficient in years past. Still working this out, but will stay within the 4-6-5 ratio.

*NEW TARGET NPK GOAL*
740-1,110-925



dank.Frank

 

[ChemDgMillionre]

Dude - what a great thread! I feel like I just time traveled back to the good old days of the Mag! Great to see so many old names popping up!

Someone else said it... dF making ICMAG great again!

Nice setup you got man.. I completely agree, tents are for shments.. get to framing, ppl!

 

[ChemDgMillionre]

Oh ya.... all this GROM talk. If there’s one plant I miss, it’s the GROM bx ... straight welches grape juice!

 

[dank.frank]

@CDgM - Thanks for the kind words. I'm trying to get back in the groove, but it's a slower process than I'd like. The GROM is one of those cuts that got overlooked. She was special in her own right and yes, she tasted like welch's white grape juice. Frostier than most every other elite I've seen. The 3 Snow Monkey hold some promise. If the trichome field density from the Glue + GROM pairs right with some flavor from the Digi, the plant will be a winner.

The final mix for this bed will look like this:

21 gal compost
7.5 gal coir
12.5 gal peat
3 gal EWC
3 gal black kow
2.5 gal vermiculite
2.5 gal permatil
6 gal perlite

3 3/4c - alfalfa meal
1 2/3c - aragonite
2 1/2c - azomite
3 1/3c - bat guano(N)
2 1/2c - bat guano(P)
1c - blood meal
5c - bone meal
1 2/3c - calcitic limestone
5 1/3c - crab meal
1c - diatomaceous earth/calcium bentonite
3 1/3c - dolomitic limestone
2 1/2c - dry molasses
1/2c - elemental sulfur
1c - feather meal
5c - greensand
2 1/2c - gypsum
2c - humic/fulvic
5 1/3c - kelp meal
2/3c - potassium sulfate
3 1/3c - rock phosphate
2c - sul-po-mg
8 1/8c - symphony

This is close enough to being within range without being exact that it won't make any difference to be more precise. I'm annoyed because I'm out of seabird guano. It'll change a bit again when I restock that amendment. But until then...



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

1 of 6 on Chili_B's cross of BubbaDutch SSH x Digi Bx1 has cracked and given a short tail. Leaving them in paper towels for now.

0 of 4 on $mike's cross I-95. I wasn't expecting these to germinate. I have more to mess around with.

5 of 6 on Abja's Cobalt Haze, round 2. 2 with large tails, 3 just starting to emerge. Placed into fresh seed starter/clone soil today.

Next seeds that get sprouted will be some Karma Genetics Whitesnake. Then something from MeltingPot, like some Chem Sis x Topanga PK fems. Just going to keep soaking seeds until I get the plants I want.



dank.Frank

 

[nickman]

1 of 6 on Chili_B's cross of BubbaDutch SSH x Digi Bx1 has cracked and given a short tail. Leaving them in paper towels for now.

0 of 4 on $mike's cross I-95. I wasn't expecting these to germinate. I have more to mess around with.

5 of 6 on Abja's Cobalt Haze, round 2. 2 with large tails, 3 just starting to emerge. Placed into fresh seed starter/clone soil today.

Next seeds that get sprouted will be some Karma Genetics Whitesnake. Then something from MeltingPot, like some Chem Sis x Topanga PK fems. Just going to keep soaking seeds until I get the plants I want.


dank.Frank

I’ve always wanted to try the whitsnake from Karma ...!!!...
those chem sis x topanga pk also sound real nice ...!!!...

Is that cobalt haze like a blueberry haze or something. ? .

 

[White Beard]

The final mix for this bed will look like this:

21 gal compost
7.5 gal coir
12.5 gal peat
3 gal EWC
3 gal black kow
2.5 gal vermiculite
2.5 gal permatil
6 gal perlite

3 3/4c - alfalfa meal
1 2/3c - aragonite
2 1/2c - azomite
3 1/3c - bat guano(N)
2 1/2c - bat guano(P)
1c - blood meal
5c - bone meal
1 2/3c - calcitic limestone
5 1/3c - crab meal
1c - diatomaceous earth/calcium bentonite
3 1/3c - dolomitic limestone
2 1/2c - dry molasses
1/2c - elemental sulfur
1c - feather meal
5c - greensand
2 1/2c - gypsum
2c - humic/fulvic
5 1/3c - kelp meal
2/3c - potassium sulfate
3 1/3c - rock phosphate
2c - sul-po-mg
8 1/8c - symphony

So is it all mixed together before laying the bed, or do you work the amendments in after your soil mix is in place?

 

[Buddah Watcha]

Thats quite a amendment list man! Seems like you have done your homework! Im here taking notes and learning All these seeds will be getting plenty of love soon! Keep it rocking!

 

[dank.frank]

@Nickman - Cobalt Haze is ABF Seeds, Whadezlrg's multiple cup winning SSH x [Mendo Montage x (Blue Dream/Williams Wonder F3)]. It's a mutli-poly for sure, and will toss out a wide range of phenos as intended, but they will all be dank I'm sure. Abja knows what he's doing. The BubbaDutch SSH x Digi Bx1 is in fact a blueberry haze, though, those seeds are pushing 6 years old. I'm afraid much of my seed collection has gone dormant.

@White Beard - Yes. It's all mixed into the soil at the very beginning before being put into the soil bed. I'll let it compost a couple of weeks while in the bed before anything is actually planted in it though. Transplants will go into this soil as they mature and need up-potted.

@Buddha - 22 amendments. ALL necessary! LOL. I know it seems like a grab bag, but the math is solid and sound. Plants should by all default love the mix. Time will tell. Maybe they hate it and I start over from square one.

I seriously doubt they will be unhappy. There are things I noticed with the NSPB I said I'd always fix. There was a version 2.0 of the NSPB made, but never progressed with. Wasn't really much of a need. There are things I noticed with the basic amendment formula based on my own experience and lots of feedback from other growers that needed adjusted. This new mix sort of addresses the issues with both the previous.

I'm very interested to see if things grow differently with all the potassium present in the new mix. I've run other mixes with these levels before and noticed better resin production, but they were outside plants, which means too many variables to really pinpoint anything. Sticking withing a set N-P-K ratio is completely new though. The 4-6-5 bit was gleamed from scientists in Israel and some of their published data. Again, time will tell. Building a mix by numbers instead of by plant dictated response is a huge shift for me in practice.



dank.Frank

 

[ChemDgMillionre]

Chem Sis x topanga please! ...I was just thinking last night I should pop more of the topanga s1’s Ottoman made