Distinguished and Nurtured Kind

[YukonKronic]

that's why i refuse to do side by sides...a,it's the stupidest way to compare because the 2 sides are almost never exactly alike,and b, fuck that shit,i run my garden the way i want,free light or not...i personally wouldn't sacrifice yield to salve some nutjobs ego...risk/reward,there's no reward in stroking cami's fragile ego...

Ha! Thanks Unc.... I’ve been trying to talk myself into a similar position. I’m not trying to do HGL any disservice and I’m grateful for a free light but I’m kind of into gardening to satisfy my God complex to some extent and control of yields from afar irks me now that I’m confronted with the reality of shrinking my garden for no other reason than indulging someone else’s ego in a business competition turned personal.
GPW will still tell the tale.
Sorry if I’m hijacking your thread with my crisis of morals .frank... Lol Uncle Fishsticks got me sorted now

 

[unclefishstick]

lol,made a mistake there,i meant nut less job,i hope that's the right gender pronoun! lol

 

[nickman]

that's why i refuse to do side by sides...a,it's the stupidest way to compare because the 2 sides are almost never exactly alike,and b, fuck that shit,i run my garden the way i want,free light or not...i personally wouldn't sacrifice yield to salve some nutjobs ego...risk/reward,there's no reward in stroking cami's fragile ego...

I agree ...!!!...

 

[tokinblackguy]

These lights are oddly bright. I actually gave the plants a 6 hour rest cycle. It seemed like 24 hours of light was too much and the plants were beginning to show some stress. This is likely a result of them really wanting to be transplanted and pulling roots off the bottom as well when moving them around.

dank.Frank

When I was up and running the last few times, I noticed pretty much the same thing. It seemed to me that the plants were "burnt out" so to speak from what I felt was too much light. 24hrs veg light provided no rest period for them and IMO they suffered. I experimented with 18/6 and 20/4 and eventually settled on the 20/4. That 4 hr dark period seemed to help them perk up and they were prepared for new growth during the lights on period.

Just my take from my own observations.

Your plants look healthy to me though but only you know best what they need/want.

 

[dank.frank]

@YukonKronic - We all know what we were getting into when we accepted those lights and we all knew who we were dealing with. It was in my thread, still is, and it was in others.

I honestly just more people would just do exactly what they said they would and plug the things. I have no idea why it's any more complicated than that.

@Unclefishsticks - we left all that sort of stuff a page or two back when we plugged the lights in. The horse is dead.

@tokinblackguy - I can't see it when the lights are off, but there is a slight copper blotch that seems to appear as a stress response, that later turns a slight purple color. Before this though, it's like the pores on the leaves appear overly swollen and the are softer to the touch and slightly limp. After a lights off cycle, they REALLY seemed to be just fine like they weren't stressed at all. I think I'll try the 20/4 as well. Thanks for the suggestion. Glad I'm not imagining it. They just seemed...taxed...like they had a long hike and needed a rest. Nice to be able to read the plant.



dank.Frank

 

[YukonKronic]

I’m still doing a side by side and plugging the lights as I said I would. Just not real keen on HGL telling me to run an underpowered lamp in a side by side at the cost of my yield. HGL was always quite ambiguous as to wether they cared much if I supplement when I mentioned it before and the preference they expressed in email seemed to pop up only as a passing thought. Followed by an “oh well”.
I’m just trying to see what white LED v HGL spectrum can do.. and if either are really better than my cheap ass HIDs.
Lol I’m not sure I care if the inter webs think I’m an asshole as long as my family and the folks that gifted me the good shit in my life (this now includes HGL fwiw) think I’m kewl.... and they all seemed fine when I asked last.

Interesting note about plants needing a break... didn’t see that under ts2000 for short time I vegged with it...

EDIT: not actually sure why I’m talking about moral conundrums here sorry .frank. I’m just going to email HGL and clarify what exactly they would like.
The value of a clear conscience is not lost on a man with demons.

 

[Americangrower]

I don't see the problem. If you want the free light then do the test grow with just the light. If you don't want to run just their light then box it up and send it back. Then run whatever lights you want. It's not a light test if you add another light to it.

 

[YukonKronic]

I don't see the problem. If you want the free light then do the test grow with just the light. If you don't want to run just their light then box it up and send it back. Then run whatever lights you want. It's not a light test if you add another light to it.

I believe claim was up to double the yield of white LEDs. I’m talking about white LEDs. That’s why I tried to get clarification from HGL. It wasn’t particularly definitive when I spoke with them before nor when I contacted them after light arrived.
Consequently I voiced a thought here as to what other growers might do and got some opinions both ways from guys I have some respect for. I failed to get clarification from HGL before getting the light so I will email them and find out if they feel insistent on using strictly Mars lights or if white LED is acceptable.
The fact that I feel the need to defend my position can be taken as evidence that I have no wish to violate any agreements with a supplier kind enough to gift me an opportunity to test their product.
Thanks for the various points of view. I’ll take it up with HGL if we could kindly give .frank his thread back.

 

[Americangrower]

The lights were given away to growers who were willing to do a test grow. The test grow is the price you pay for the light. If you add a dif light to the unit then test grow becomes useless. There's a reason some growers don't sign up for test grows and free shit. Because it isn't free it cost you a full grow.

 

[YukonKronic]

The lights were given away to growers who were willing to do a test grow. The test grow is the price you pay for the light. If you add a dif light to the unit then test grow becomes useless. There's a reason some growers don't sign up for test grows and free shit. Because it isn't free it cost you a full grow.

You seem stuck. It’s been explained to Death now... Check my thread if you actually care what HGL tells me about wether I’m testing against MARS or just white LED.
Buh bye.

 

[gmanwho]

DF, quick thought, one thing to consider is using a higher light pass through screen shade. the screen will slow/stop vertical growth then once the lowers catch up its time to go into 12/12 and then the screen comes off. canopy density fill accomplished.


https://www.agriculturesolutions.com/agricultural-fabrics/shade-cloth-fabric

 

[dank.frank]

It's all just conversation...no need to get riled up about any of it. I think, HGLED certainly has a preference to run against other branded lights vs even custom built LED units. From a marketing stand point, in trying to maximize the value of the data, it makes logical sense.

I always got the impression from reading what bits I did, they were pretty specific about it being one light vs another light - of equal or comparable foot print - or equal or comparable wattage, or whatever else the relevant comparison was, but I certainly had the impression they didn't want any sort of mix matching of things.

I understand your conundrum - wanting to maximize the space you have - but if your space isn't appropriate for the lights you are supposed to be comparing, you've put yourself into a pickle and I can see why the "oh well" sort of response from the company - given it's another possible scenario that isn't going to go as they would ultimately prefer - thus undermining the value of having a tester.

I agree with AG - I think the whole thing is cut, dry and simple. That's not to suggest you are being difficult in anyway or are even in the wrong - I'm not making a compare and contrast statement - just discussing things surrounding these lights as a whole.

@gmanwho - I use shade cloth and row covers when necessary as a standard practice in general agriculture. I couldn't grow a lot of different lettuces without the shade covers. The heat causes the plant to go to seed before it ever produces edible leaves, so shade cloth cuts the temps enough to prevent bolting. I fully get the concept - wouldn't have considered doing the same indoors, but makes perfect sense, actually, if I am in fact, over saturating the plants.



dank.Frank

 

[Hammerhead]

I currently use 3 -315w 4k CMH + 1 250w 4k LED UFO in veg. Summertime heat out there gets to 110f on some of the hottest days. Plants in veg can handle high temps well. When it gets real hot the RH drops real low.. I can see my girls are not happy.. I have to mist them daily when its super hot.

I would like to replace the 315w CMH with LED in summer. If my plants perform as well as CMH does using LED im sold for veg. For flower im not ready to swap out for LED now.

 

[MedGrowerTom]

what distance did you settle in on at this point from light to tops of plants? My light arrives Monday, so getting things ready. Def looks bright for the pics man.

 

[YukonKronic]

Yeah HGL is being pretty kewl but I have pretty good verbal cognition and I also can tell they would prefer it be brand v brand after reviewing PMs and email. I never got the words “do this or I’m gonna be pissed off” (and I expect I would know if I had pissed them off) but it’s also clear that the idea of beating MarsHydro appeals to them.
It’s clearly not a particularly even matchup as the lights are rated for different footprints in flower but I’m choosing to look at it as a challenge for my growing skills.

I’m going to be running ts2000 v xb400 in a 4x4 side by side. I figure if I put something like crumbled Lime around perimeter it’s going to frost up better with a little dimmer light anyways from the Cookies influence.
Maybe I can rig a rail type of thing and slide the light from one side to the other each day...

I’m at about 8 inches above nearly finished tops and I’m thinking to back off another 4 or 5.... after two days the fade accelerated and there’s copper blotches on closest leaves that look like a light induced deficiency to me... these are powerful and bright.

Lol I hit my head on the edge of it today... fuck that heavy metal plates kinda solid when you headbutt it... I’ve bent reflectors with my head before but the XB fought back man..

Edit: I forgot to mention Cammie recommended 12” in veg and no more than 6” in bloom for my light

 

[dank.frank]

@Med Grower Tom - It seems like right about 14" seems to be a sweet spot when they are running 18/6.



dank.Frank

 

[gmanwho]

actually df, i was looking at using the shade cloth as a physical barrier, and not the intended purpose to diffuse the light. also why i suggested getting the cloth with the highest light pass through.


so the tops slow when they hit the barrier, an the lowers continue to raise. once the cloth is removed its a denser canopy, but the stretch will help elongate things down the road. would think that the original tops to hit the barrier may still have slight hormone priority, if the shade cloth wasn't in place for an over extended period of time. an well if it was in place over that point, all the tops should grow with equal importance making one nice canopy.


i forget where i saw the greenhouses lined up with shade cloth, (somewhere on IG maybe herosofthefarm or one of the karma genetics farms), an they where using it to bush out the top of the plants vs topping control. the question was asked "is there to much light there u need to use the shade cloth"? the OP responded an explained the method i just relayed. i myself have not tried it, i feel it could be a useful tool in the future thou.


however their canopies where real impressive. very impressive.
bwell

 

[dank.frank]

So, total numbers for the last round are in. Flowers are in the jars. The last 3 12 week Cobalts averaged 3.5 each, more or less.

The 9wk Cobalt was 240. The Sis/PK was 174. The 12wk Cobalt is 298.

So, for this last flowering cycle = 712g with 2 x 315w CMH = 1.1 GPW.

It's official. I'm wearing my big boy pants on now. LOL.

Now we can also officially say we have a water only soil that is capable of producing 1gpw as well.

My opinion, these HGLED lights have a stiff challenge in front of them. I'm still 184g shy of my desired goal for this space. Will lighting fix that? Can I get 1# per 200w XB200?

I won't believe it until I see it. These London Loud could be massive yielding plants. Historically, Cheese x insert a Diesel has produced some monsters.

I just want to thank everyone who is helping make this thread possible. That is the BEST GPW I have ever hit, even when running 1k lamps. I couldn't do it so seamlessly without the steady influx of quality information preventing me from hesitating or making the wrong decision. Timing matters on the great runs - and I've still not had one of those - but we are getting MUCH closer...or so I'm told.

One of these days, F.A.M. I'm sharing flowers with might come in and voice his opinions. It's good to have someone critique the work and push me towards better. That goes for all of you following along.



dank.Frank

 

[Prodigygrower]

Hell yea broski much respect. You got me sold on the water only my friend.

 

[unclefishstick]

i dunno df,a first run with the lamps and a seed run at that....no offense but i don't see it happening,something more like half what you just did is more realistic...leds aren't some sort of garden magic...there's no such thing