White Beard
Active member
Round 2. Thanks to everyone for sticking around and giving advice and pointers along the way. The company is much appreciated.
dank.Frank
You’re good company, and I learn a lot
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Distinguished and Nurtured Kind
- Thread starter dank.frank
- Start date
You’re good company, and I learn a lot
I can’t wait to see that chem sis x pk flower...!!!...
I agree with you about vegging under cfl/T5 and such... my first few years growing I would veg my plants under the 1000 watter and then turn the lights to 12/12...
plants grew much more sturdy and grew up bigger much faster...
After a few years i got a few sets of the four foot eight bulb T5’s to veg under... I’ve been using them ever since... mainly because It takes too long to veg and flower all in one room... much faster vegging in a veg room and having another room to flower in...
Another thing that I do like about the T5’s is that they allow me to keep a flat/even canopy much easier...!!!... one of these days I’ll buy another 1000 watter to veg under also...!!!...
...
I agree with you about vegging under cfl/T5 and such... my first few years growing I would veg my plants under the 1000 watter and then turn the lights to 12/12...
plants grew much more sturdy and grew up bigger much faster...
After a few years i got a few sets of the four foot eight bulb T5’s to veg under... I’ve been using them ever since... mainly because It takes too long to veg and flower all in one room... much faster vegging in a veg room and having another room to flower in...
Another thing that I do like about the T5’s is that they allow me to keep a flat/even canopy much easier...!!!... one of these days I’ll buy another 1000 watter to veg under also...!!!...
...
I can’t wait to see that chem sis x pk flower...!!!...
I agree with you about vegging under cfl/T5 and such... my first few years growing I would veg my plants under the 1000 watter and then turn the lights to 12/12...
plants grew much more sturdy and grew up bigger much faster...
After a few years i got a few sets of the four foot eight bulb T5’s to veg under... I’ve been using them ever since... mainly because It takes too long to veg and flower all in one room... much faster vegging in a veg room and having another room to flower in...
Another thing that I do like about the T5’s is that they allow me to keep a flat/even canopy much easier...!!!... one of these days I’ll buy another 1000 watter to veg under also...!!!...
I ran a 600mh or 2 x 6 bulb t5 in veg forever both close to 600w of draw.
I know run 4 x 2 bulb/strips led shoplights with plastic tubes removed. They draw 160w and my veg room looks better then ever. Only problem I have so far is zero stretch since I had lights 5 or 6 inches away. I have since brought it up a ft or 2 higher to get some stretch.
That’s what’s up...
yeah, my two fixtures draw 435 watts a unit and there’s two so...
Last night I just ordered a ten pack of integrated LED 4 foot 6500k strip lights and they draw I think 20 watts a piece so that what 200 watts...!!!...
I’m just hoping that they’re not too white looking in color...
I also ordered new T5 bulbs. I figure I’ll do something with those LED’s... it’s summer and it’s hot ...!!!...
just as i thought , my maths suck.
58 gal. x 231 cubic inches = 13398 cubic inches divided by 8 = 1674.75 each
1674.75 divided by 231 = 7.25 gallons per
easy peasy to do 8
58 gal. x 231 cubic inches = 13398 cubic inches divided by 18 = 744.3
744.3 divided by 231 = 3.22 gal. per
not a problem there either...
i was under the impression the bed was deeper. my bad.
i've used 7 gal cans prior with 2-3 oz results, must be your amendments or genetics creating the colas i've witnessed you producing.
i'll crawl back under the stairs for a nap now.
58 gal. x 231 cubic inches = 13398 cubic inches divided by 8 = 1674.75 each
1674.75 divided by 231 = 7.25 gallons per
easy peasy to do 8
58 gal. x 231 cubic inches = 13398 cubic inches divided by 18 = 744.3
744.3 divided by 231 = 3.22 gal. per
not a problem there either...
i was under the impression the bed was deeper. my bad.
i've used 7 gal cans prior with 2-3 oz results, must be your amendments or genetics creating the colas i've witnessed you producing.
i'll crawl back under the stairs for a nap now.
I was originally planning on making a 16.5" deep bed - and that was just too much soil for no reason. I wanted the extra 5.5" of vertical space more than the unneeded soil volume.
Just as a point of reference - if you look back at the Basic Organic Soil sticky in the Stank Bros sub-forum, you'll notice I break down the yield variances between the different mixes.
I've been saying it for a very long time. Diversity of inputs is paramount to success in an organic system. I see people all the time trying to simplify these recipes down to 2 or 3 ingredients and it just doesn't work the same. I've tried it myself many times over.
In 3 gallon containers, yield per plant is usually 1.5-3oz depending. GG#4 was an exception and one of the only things I've ever run that would hit 3.75-4.25 in 3 gallons. I've always gone by an old standard I learned on overgrow - 1/2 gallon per foot of veg growth. 1 additional gallon for desired yield. So, if vegging in a 1 gallon container. Expect 2' tall plants by transplant time and if you want 3 ounces, increase soil volume accordingly.
It's certainly not a concrete definitive statement, but it is a good rule of thumb. I found, the containers I liked BEST, was taking 10 gallon smart pots, and folding them in half. This made a super wide 5 gallon container and the plants bushed out very nicely in those. Vegged in 1 gallon under 400w and flowered in 5 gallon under 1k. Average plant yield then varied quite a bit with strains, but was usually in the 3.5-6oz range in the wide 5.
I'd say, if you are only getting 2-3oz in a 7 gallon, you have significant room for yield increases. Find what the greatest limiting factor in your environment is - and you'll find your bottleneck for increased production.
dank.Frank
Just as a point of reference - if you look back at the Basic Organic Soil sticky in the Stank Bros sub-forum, you'll notice I break down the yield variances between the different mixes.
I've been saying it for a very long time. Diversity of inputs is paramount to success in an organic system. I see people all the time trying to simplify these recipes down to 2 or 3 ingredients and it just doesn't work the same. I've tried it myself many times over.
In 3 gallon containers, yield per plant is usually 1.5-3oz depending. GG#4 was an exception and one of the only things I've ever run that would hit 3.75-4.25 in 3 gallons. I've always gone by an old standard I learned on overgrow - 1/2 gallon per foot of veg growth. 1 additional gallon for desired yield. So, if vegging in a 1 gallon container. Expect 2' tall plants by transplant time and if you want 3 ounces, increase soil volume accordingly.
It's certainly not a concrete definitive statement, but it is a good rule of thumb. I found, the containers I liked BEST, was taking 10 gallon smart pots, and folding them in half. This made a super wide 5 gallon container and the plants bushed out very nicely in those. Vegged in 1 gallon under 400w and flowered in 5 gallon under 1k. Average plant yield then varied quite a bit with strains, but was usually in the 3.5-6oz range in the wide 5.
I'd say, if you are only getting 2-3oz in a 7 gallon, you have significant room for yield increases. Find what the greatest limiting factor in your environment is - and you'll find your bottleneck for increased production.
dank.Frank
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
I was doing the same filling fabric 10s halfway with promix when I was running indoor, great minds think alike haha. Trained them into bushes like a scoop of ice cream on a cone and flipped.
After just a few days, it was time to give them a solid super crop. I tried to let the branches go in a direction that would fill in a gap once the branch is restricted by a screen from just popping back up and returning to it's vertical growth pattern.
A couple branches only got folded about 2", while most I folded, were showing some degree of apical dominance and just outpacing the surrounding canopy, which, I discussed this very matter with Seismic in PM the other day. The Cobalt Hazes, even when topped repeatedly, seem to return to a more single cola pattern, where 2 or 3 branches take over the structure. It makes them a bit hard to bush out when topping, but I think super cropping under a screen...or a SOG style with them...would do the trick nicely.
Regardless, those particular branches, had the top 5-6" of growth folded in various directions. I'm going to be MUCH more serious about removing lower growth with these lights this round as well. I also cleared up the bottom fan leaves and snip out a couple branches that just weren't doing much. So far so good.
dank.Frank
A couple branches only got folded about 2", while most I folded, were showing some degree of apical dominance and just outpacing the surrounding canopy, which, I discussed this very matter with Seismic in PM the other day. The Cobalt Hazes, even when topped repeatedly, seem to return to a more single cola pattern, where 2 or 3 branches take over the structure. It makes them a bit hard to bush out when topping, but I think super cropping under a screen...or a SOG style with them...would do the trick nicely.
Regardless, those particular branches, had the top 5-6" of growth folded in various directions. I'm going to be MUCH more serious about removing lower growth with these lights this round as well. I also cleared up the bottom fan leaves and snip out a couple branches that just weren't doing much. So far so good.
dank.Frank
Yeah, I can see how far down u folded on some... I’ve never bent them that far down... i usually pinch and bend them more towards the tops but it all depends on the structure of the plant too...
Have u decided to put a screen up or no...
They’re looking good either way...
Have u decided to put a screen up or no...
They’re looking good either way...
I bent them where I wanted to level the canopy, as long as it still left at least two internodes below the bend, to continue some vertical growth in that spot.
For example, you can see the Sis x PK in the front left side of the door frame and you see the elongation in the bend. It's growing fast like an OG. The more root space she gets the more she wants to elongate, but she's not floppy. She has rather thin, rigged stems. She has a very quaint familiar chem reek to her, albeit it is a bit muted or sweeter perhaps. It still one of those plants when you rub, you look for the open jar of flowers, only to realize you should probably wash your hands. It's got that funk to it.
When a screen goes in place, any day now, it will be in part, to keep those long bends, from growing upright again. That will allow those 4-5 internodes that are a bit spread out as the plant adjusted to the new light, to fill in nicely across a screen.
So, yes. A screen is NOT an option. I'll not try to stake and tie things up again. Too difficult when a screen can solve the support issue AND create a level canopy at the same time.
They get transplanted, roots start to spread and seek the sides, and the plant stretches out. Rather than constantly tucking daily under a screen, I figured I'd accomplish relatively the same by folding the longer, lankier branches, that are dominating the plant structure. I assume, they'll grow faster, resulting in the canopy filling in faster, than it would if I tried to top and waited for the bottom growth to catch up and level out.
Really, it just comes down to following others advice the last round and the Cobalts seemed to respond more favorably to supper cropping than to topping. I try to carry forward what I learned from the last cycle. Key word being TRY.
dank.Frank
For example, you can see the Sis x PK in the front left side of the door frame and you see the elongation in the bend. It's growing fast like an OG. The more root space she gets the more she wants to elongate, but she's not floppy. She has rather thin, rigged stems. She has a very quaint familiar chem reek to her, albeit it is a bit muted or sweeter perhaps. It still one of those plants when you rub, you look for the open jar of flowers, only to realize you should probably wash your hands. It's got that funk to it.
When a screen goes in place, any day now, it will be in part, to keep those long bends, from growing upright again. That will allow those 4-5 internodes that are a bit spread out as the plant adjusted to the new light, to fill in nicely across a screen.
So, yes. A screen is NOT an option. I'll not try to stake and tie things up again. Too difficult when a screen can solve the support issue AND create a level canopy at the same time.
They get transplanted, roots start to spread and seek the sides, and the plant stretches out. Rather than constantly tucking daily under a screen, I figured I'd accomplish relatively the same by folding the longer, lankier branches, that are dominating the plant structure. I assume, they'll grow faster, resulting in the canopy filling in faster, than it would if I tried to top and waited for the bottom growth to catch up and level out.
Really, it just comes down to following others advice the last round and the Cobalts seemed to respond more favorably to supper cropping than to topping. I try to carry forward what I learned from the last cycle. Key word being TRY.
dank.Frank
So I assume you went with the 8 plants to flower in the bed...
Also, how much longer do you think that you’ll veg them for...?...
just curious...!!!...
Hey, I’ve been meaning to tell you about my Triple Nova... it’s got such a nice smell when I rub the stems... I can just sit there rubbing her down smelling my fingers like a perv...!!!... lol.
.
I can’t remember what’s in her genetics... was it blackberry kush x TK...?... I remember you saying something about Trainwreck.?.
Anyway, have a good one bro......
Also, how much longer do you think that you’ll veg them for...?...
just curious...!!!...
Hey, I’ve been meaning to tell you about my Triple Nova... it’s got such a nice smell when I rub the stems... I can just sit there rubbing her down smelling my fingers like a perv...!!!... lol.
.I can’t remember what’s in her genetics... was it blackberry kush x TK...?... I remember you saying something about Trainwreck.?.
Anyway, have a good one bro...
...
G
Guest
Well said. This is the way I treat my compost, diverse inputs eg local water weeds, dead animals, manure, brown and green clippings, newspaper, fish, crushed oyster, egg shells, egg cartons, newspaper, kitchen scraps etc etc.. The more bases covered in the compost the less chance of nutrient dificiency in the plants.
Then further refined through the worm farm. Makes readily available yet gentle plant nutrition.
Triple Nova - when CV gave me those seeds, he had included a bit of paper with a note on it breaking down the genetics of each line. Triple Nova, was listed as being TK x (Blackberry x Trainwreck Bx2) - if I'm not mistaken. It was said the Triple Nova male was selected from a 650 plant search, and at that time, he considered it to be his best work.
I guess they've been vegging for 5 days already. I don't really have a set time frame. I'm watching the stems mostly and waiting for them to beef up and thicken. When that happens, they'll be ready for the nutrient transport necessary to make larger flowers. Until then, I'm vegging and folding and tucking this canopy to fill her in. I don't expect it'll be much longer before flip. Few more days - just depends on plant behaviors.
dank.Frank
I guess they've been vegging for 5 days already. I don't really have a set time frame. I'm watching the stems mostly and waiting for them to beef up and thicken. When that happens, they'll be ready for the nutrient transport necessary to make larger flowers. Until then, I'm vegging and folding and tucking this canopy to fill her in. I don't expect it'll be much longer before flip. Few more days - just depends on plant behaviors.
dank.Frank
I was thinking that was the way to go at first... keep it simple stupid...!!!... I was thinking that maybe that would be better than having a kitchen sink of a bunch of different inputs... one amendment for the N, one for the P and one for the K...!!!...
I see now that that’s definitely not that way to go...
G
Guest
I was lucky I had a local fruit and vegetable grocer where I could fill up with as much spoiled produce as I could take. In return, I think it saved on their garbage bill. To make serious amounts of compost it does need to be a passion as you are always looking for inputs.
With that genetic background the Triple Nova has got to be winner 
Interestingly enough, that post was made, almost to the very day - 6 years ago - 5/29/2013. I've been working with and adapting my own approach to soil for over a decade now. It's really NOT a "kitchen sink" approach - which I demonstrated by charting out how much nutrition was being provided by each particular amendment in the equation.
It's as much about fostering diversity in the soil as it is organic materials having different degrees of hardness, which those two things in conjunction play a huge role in bio-availability of the proper ionic forms for plant uptake. There isn't a single amendment that is on that list, that doesn't serve a very specific purpose in the over all ecosystem.
I've said this before as well, but having a diverse range of inputs impacts flavor more than you realize. A soil made with nothing but guano, rock dusts, and kelp - has a very earthy flavor to it. Everything takes on a sort of musty basement dank earthiness to it. Everything you grow will have that underlying note to it.
Experimenting in soil, helped me understand a few things over the years as well. I know without question why "beasters" we always got out of Canada all tasted the same. I'd bet my life they were being grown with a combination of cheap 2-part A and B and guano based "bud boosters".
Truth is, if you use only blood, bone, potassium sulfate - 12-0-0, 3-14-0, 0-0-50 - you actually get weed that taste like it was grown using a two part formula. The flavors are sharper and brighter tasting. The flavors tend to be more mono-focused on a single note and lack depth. You also get a lot of leaf burn if you don't cook such a soil. You also get rapid onset growth that tends to fade rapidly after 7-8 weeks and you find yourself using extra soil to compensate or top dressing or using teas.
You can go with a "vegan" nutritional route - and I even made a NSPB: Vegan recipe at one time to cater to a trend that was rising. I never released it though because the flowers tasted like they were grown in a hay field with some minor floral notes. But, for the most part, flowers that should have been dynamic tasted like they had been dried and left in the sun too long and lost all their special unique terps.
Try using fish meal, fish bone meal, crab meal, kelp meal, and Sea-90 minerals. I promise you - your cannabis will taste like you left it in the boat, in the live well, over night.
I've been criticized in the past for promoting this basic idea ---> "Nitrogen is Nitrogen, it doesn't matter what source it comes from" crowd <--- At the same time, I know without question, a grass fed cow tastes completely different than a corn fed cow, and if nutrition is just nutrition...
I stick by the idea if you want the plant to be able to fully express itself or if you want to be able to select the very best phenos from a population, you have to be able to see the plants for what they actually are and not what the limitations of various environmental restrictions (or human impositions - such as a "feeding schedule") are making them.
Blah. Blah. Blah. Diversity is good.
dank.Frank
Good, glad to hear you say that about the fish meal, fishbone meal, crab meal and kelp... they are things that I allready use in my soil...
What’s the Sea-90 minerals?
I used to use general organic’s line... I think it was vegan or plant based except for the bio fish...!!!...
I’ve read that sulfur can bring out the skunky smell more...
P.s. The kitchen sink comment was not towards you ...!!!...
What’s the Sea-90 minerals?
I used to use general organic’s line... I think it was vegan or plant based except for the bio fish...!!!...
I’ve read that sulfur can bring out the skunky smell more...
P.s. The kitchen sink comment was not towards you ...!!!...
G
Guest
That’s a cool post Frank.
My first ever grow outdoors I took a shovel full of fresh chicken turd and top dressed my potted lady. Harvested not long after and fuck me if it was unsmokably harsh. So I disposed of the buds in a hedge.
Well I got dry and went looking for my buds they were gone! I hit my brother up and he had scooped them up and I got them back. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
What a killer thread DF, I just skimmed thru and man does that Cobalt Haze #2 look absolutely glorious ���� And then seeing the Chem Sis cross, I cant wait to see her go. The Sos is my favorite of the Chem’s followed by the Skunk VA, she doesn’t get nearly the respect or love she deserves imvho of course. I hope she turns out delicious for you brother. Subbed and can’t wait to see what you do in here
