Distinguished and Nurtured Kind

[dank.frank]

@Genetic Freaked - No. You misunderstand. I've not had anything that would qualify as Monkey Paw, yet. The Chiquita surfacing created a possibility, but what I saw as "Monkey Paw" is not the same as the CB and it's not the same as the Banana OG.

I'd still love to find old Sag 60/40. There is supposed to be true banana phenos in it. Here's a good reference point as to why:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5520117&postcount=5

I was told long ago that SubCool's Qleaner had banana phenos in it, but I never got around to sprouting the two packs I bought. Seems to be how it goes.

We all lose clones of great stuff. It happens. It just takes time for things to come full circle again. Even years in some cases.

SIDE NOTE - The Chem Sis x TCPK fem - has that gnarly leaf twist like you'd expect to see in a GG#4 plant, which is also very present in the Snow Monkey male - which I've said before is a Chem Sis trait because I saw that leaf twist in the Sis x NL years ago as well. To date, the seedling has been slower to grow and I tried to rub her leaf once and got literally zero smell. That was a week ago. I tried today with a bit of new stem growth and got a hint of a hashy garlic, but still barely present. I'll wait until it gets a bit bigger and firmly established before messing with it anymore. I'd still say, the Chem Sis influence is visibly apparent in it.



dank.Frank

 

[Zapadra]

@Genetic Freaked - No. You misunderstand. I've not had anything that would qualify as Monkey Paw, yet. The Chiquita surfacing created a possibility, but what I saw as "Monkey Paw" is not the same as the CB and it's not the same as the Banana OG.

I'd still love to find old Sag 60/40. There is supposed to be true banana phenos in it. Here's a good reference point as to why:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5520117&postcount=5

I was told long ago that SubCool's Qleaner had banana phenos in it, but I never got around to sprouting the two packs I bought. Seems to be how it goes.

We all lose clones of great stuff. It happens. It just takes time for things to come full circle again. Even years in some cases.

SIDE NOTE - The Chem Sis x TCPK fem - has that gnarly leaf twist like you'd expect to see in a GG#4 plant, which is also very present in the Snow Monkey male - which I've said before is a Chem Sis trait because I saw that leaf twist in the Sis x NL years ago as well. To date, the seedling has been slower to grow and I tried to rub her leaf once and got literally zero smell. That was a week ago. I tried today with a bit of new stem growth and got a hint of a hashy garlic, but still barely present. I'll wait until it gets a bit bigger and firmly established before messing with it anymore. I'd still say, the Chem Sis influence is visibly apparent in it.



dank.Frank

So is the gnarly twist specific to the sis line? Or a chem trait in general?

 

[TheBlaze]

^^ This

Enquiring minds want to know.

I'm running a test for Female Seeds on their chem og, but they don't know what cut of chem. I see they all exhibit the same leaf twist as GG though.

 

[CannaRed]

^^ This

Enquiring minds want to know.

I'm running a test for Female Seeds on their chem og, but they don't know what cut of chem. I see they all exhibit the same leaf twist as GG though.

I've never ran gg4, but do have a purple strain that usually twists. Has anyone ever grew out gg4 that doesn't twist?
I'm trying to figure out if the strain is genetically twisted or is genetically predisposed to twist because of pH, etc.

This time around on my purple only two leaves twisted.

Alot of times the sugar leaves closest to buds will kinda spiral clockwise their tips. The fan leaves will crinkle up and twist. It not showing this trait every single time has me confused.

 

[EagleWolf]

Cool, there's a lot of good information here. Thank Dank. I have some NL x haze (local cough cut, s1's) seedlings with a twisted leaf, but they are young and may grow out of it. Other seeds didn't in the same soil, though.

I keep 2 315's in veg, and the spread is amazing. I do have to keep them pretty high (33" as of late), or I'll get some stressed leaves then bleaching on a sensitive strain I keep. Intense little suns in those lamps, should make some good flower.

 

[Americangrower]

@Genetic Freaked - No. You misunderstand. I've not had anything that would qualify as Monkey Paw, yet. The Chiquita surfacing created a possibility, but what I saw as "Monkey Paw" is not the same as the CB and it's not the same as the Banana OG.

I'd still love to find old Sag 60/40. There is supposed to be true banana phenos in it. Here's a good reference point as to why:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5520117&postcount=5

I was told long ago that SubCool's Qleaner had banana phenos in it, but I never got around to sprouting the two packs I bought. Seems to be how it goes.

We all lose clones of great stuff. It happens. It just takes time for things to come full circle again. Even years in some cases.

SIDE NOTE - The Chem Sis x TCPK fem - has that gnarly leaf twist like you'd expect to see in a GG#4 plant, which is also very present in the Snow Monkey male - which I've said before is a Chem Sis trait because I saw that leaf twist in the Sis x NL years ago as well. To date, the seedling has been slower to grow and I tried to rub her leaf once and got literally zero smell. That was a week ago. I tried today with a bit of new stem growth and got a hint of a hashy garlic, but still barely present. I'll wait until it gets a bit bigger and firmly established before messing with it anymore. I'd still say, the Chem Sis influence is visibly apparent in it.



dank.Frank

I remember reading a lil bit back the Orgnkid still had 60/40 seeds that he was popping.

 

[dank.frank]

The leaf twist is something that was well documented on the GG#4.

I tend to think the glue gets it from Chem Sis. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just something I've seen too often in other outcrossed lines.

Sis x NL
Sis x TCPK
GG#4
GG#4 x GROM/Digi male

I've not seen it in other Chem dominant plants, but that is CERTAINLY not to say that Females seeds cross used Chem Sis - I can only speak first hand on the lines I've grown and what I've experienced first hand.

The leaves on the Sis x TCPK are fatter than I'd expect for a young OG but they are indeed in sets of 3. In many ways, you could look at this line as a Chem/OG of sorts as well.

It's like the double serrations. Digi certainly makes them and it's a great indicator when sorting the outcrosses, but it's not the only plant that makes double serrations. The leaf twist could be no different, but like the double serrations, it's a great indicator.

Everyone has nuances they look for in the lines they are familiar with growing.



dank.Frank

 

[NEED 4 SEED]

@Genetic Freaked - No. You misunderstand. I've not had anything that would qualify as Monkey Paw, yet. The Chiquita surfacing created a possibility, but what I saw as "Monkey Paw" is not the same as the CB and it's not the same as the Banana OG.

I'd still love to find old Sag 60/40. There is supposed to be true banana phenos in it. Here's a good reference point as to why:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5520117&postcount=5

I was told long ago that SubCool's Qleaner had banana phenos in it, but I never got around to sprouting the two packs I bought. Seems to be how it goes.

We all lose clones of great stuff. It happens. It just takes time for things to come full circle again. Even years in some cases.

SIDE NOTE - The Chem Sis x TCPK fem - has that gnarly leaf twist like you'd expect to see in a GG#4 plant, which is also very present in the Snow Monkey male - which I've said before is a Chem Sis trait because I saw that leaf twist in the Sis x NL years ago as well. To date, the seedling has been slower to grow and I tried to rub her leaf once and got literally zero smell. That was a week ago. I tried today with a bit of new stem growth and got a hint of a hashy garlic, but still barely present. I'll wait until it gets a bit bigger and firmly established before messing with it anymore. I'd still say, the Chem Sis influence is visibly apparent in it.



dank.Frank

Hey dank.frank...if you weren' able to locate a banana pheno, I had luck with "Banana Peel" from Illuminati Seeds. I had 6 feminized beans, 1 was sweet and hashy, another 2 had darker hash and bad breath smells and the last 2 had a sweet artificial banana like smell. I am keeping the banana phenos since 2015 for a breeding project in the future, maybe this year, maybe not. I already made a ton of seeds with most of the 5 in an open pollination using 5-6 males of a cross between Super Silver Haze by GH and Blueberry by DP. So everything can come up with these, phenos probably all over the place, no guarantee for nothing. You should pm me if you want to know more.

 

[genetic freaked]

Damn did I read that post wrong lol.
I thought you finally found the MP with 3 of the 4 seeds being viable.

How are things looking over there DF?

 

[useless.gardens]

I've never ran gg4, but do have a purple strain that usually twists. Has anyone ever grew out gg4 that doesn't twist?
I'm trying to figure out if the strain is genetically twisted or is genetically predisposed to twist because of pH, etc.

This time around on my purple only two leaves twisted.

Alot of times the sugar leaves closest to buds will kinda spiral clockwise their tips. The fan leaves will crinkle up and twist. It not showing this trait every single time has me confused.

no. glue throws a bent finger here & there. its genetic... & not an environmental manifestation.

so if you got a glue that doesnt throw the occasional bent finger... its not the real deal.

gg4. my top 10 all time fav plant to grow. smoke is in my top 5.

 

[TheBlaze]

Thanks Frank. That makes sense.

 

[dank.frank]

Room shot. I honestly don't know how many days into flower this is. 4 maybe? They haven't even begun to stretch yet. It's going to be a very close call on height.

Light distance is about 20" from the tops of the plants. They can be moved up another 16" or so before hitting ceiling. The plants are currently about 34" tall from the top of the soil.

I'm pretty sure I over vegged waiting for the lower branches on the hemp to fill in, but never did. They stayed below the canopy and the main branches took over and starting shooting vigorous secondary growth that has filled in very well. Wasted at least a week of veg time that should have been spent in flower.

I said forever ago I was rusty. Temps in the box are interesting. Soil level it stays close to 70. Above the lights about 83. At canopy level, I recorded 104 last night. I've not actually made the passive intakes yet in the veg area. Guess I need to get on that, even though at this point, the plants have showed absolutely zero stress yet. I know that won't be the case once flowers form though - I must keep temps at canopy around 76-78 degrees if I want to produce true dank!! I'll need to install a circulation fan.

Cobalt Haze - these are the ones that really worry me. SSH could stretch like crazy, even if the mom only extends 18" during flower, pheno variation could kill me here.

Sorry for the not so great pictures. Working with what I have for now. It's an OLD Kodak stone age digital camera. I think they still made film when this was made.

Things are moving along. Plants are healthy. Potential is there if I can get the environment in check. Next round of clones is vegging out. 5 of the more sativa SSH and 3 of the more Cookie influenced. Just the way things rooted out. Not concerned by the mismatch. I just need a full room of flowers.



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

To give credence to the other conversation we were having...this is the "twist" in the leaf that we often see in GG#4, that I see in the Snow Monkey male, that is present also in the Chem Sis x Topanga Pure Kush...that was also present in the Chem Sis x NL.

I ALWAYS watch seedlings very closely when they are little. They have nuances they often grow out of that are very much expressed when just sprouting their first sets of leaves. Yes, it could change and yes it could mean nothing, but I take mental notes on every plant and when I see a pattern, it tends to stick in my mind.

Keep in mind, if this was an environmental impact, it would be showing on all the plants. The fact it's showing on relatives sharing a parent line, is beyond coincidence and solidifies it's genetic and not abiotic.

Chem Sis x TCPK (with a couple Cobalt clones in the background)

Snow Monkey male - GG#4 x GROM/Digi - GG#4 has chem sis. Tada.

Now this is the Chem Sis x NL - grown in a completely different state years ago, so again, not looking at the environment as a contributing factor. You see the same leaf twist in this lady, although, not quite as pronounced in this picture, the cut would actually invert entire an entire leaf that would grow with their underside facing the light.

I really can't complain. I said I'd be very happy to have a Chem Sis dominant plant surface, just so I can make an excuse to use the pollen from the Snow Monkey male. Luck of the draw. With such apparent similarity in traits, it'd be kind of stupid not to breed them. That aside, Genetic Freaked's male was such a serious stud. If any of that is retained and passed on again, there is no way to lose with the males from the Snowman lines.

Huge thanks to Melty - thanks for all you do brother. If she's special...we'll, you know.



dank.Frank

 

[TheBlaze]

That twist sure looks familiar. I would be a happy man if the seedlings I have were indeed a chem sis cross. I still remember that LCOG I had. Pure dank, and a great looking plant as well.

Good luck with the stretch.

 

[dank.frank]

I'd not make any assumption about it being chem sis in their cross. If a company as large as them can't take the extra steps to ensure the plants they breed with are labeled correctly, I think that really speaks poorly of their SOP.

They need to verify their cut and let people know what they are selling so it doesn't confuse and muddy things more.

I've always preached transparency and accuracy when it comes to taking hard earned money from others. At least they are being clear they don't know what it is, but that admission does not negate them from their responsibility to continue to seek the answers and update their listing.

When I made the BooBerry Kush - Ghost OG x Bubba/Digi - I was very clear the Ghost wasn't fully verified yet and it turned out not to be the right cut. I'm VERY glad I only gave those seeds away to people bored and wanting something to play around with. It produced good smoke, but not something worthy of producing keepers.



dank.Frank

 

[CannaRed]

no. glue throws a bent finger here & there. its genetic... & not an environmental manifestation.

so if you got a glue that doesnt throw the occasional bent finger... its not the real deal.

gg4. my top 10 all time fav plant to grow. smoke is in my top 5.

Interesting, thanks.
I knew it was genetic but wasn't sure if genetically it twists no matter what, or if it was genetically predisposed to twist at normal pH, but straightened out at a higher/lower pH.
Cool topic

 

[dank.frank]

It has nothing to do with abiotic factors. In outcrosses, it could be that your pheno varies and doesn't express it. However, if looking for dominant expressions, it's a dead give away.

Example, if you want a Glue dominant male for a project, you could start 100 seeds and literally trash every single plant that didn't show this trait and never worry about having not flowered them or having missed "the one".

In my opinion, selection criteria is key to refinement in breeding. YOU MUST have a set of parameters to confine yourself within. That's the perk of making your own seeds. You can go through them without the guilt of waste.

If I'm looking though a Digital Berry outcrossed line and want a blueberry influence, I can tell instantly on a stem rub if the plant conforms or not. I've trashed plants many times at just a few weeks old when their siblings were clearly more desirable expressions.



dank.Frank

 

[TheBlaze]

I'd not make any assumption about it being chem sis in their cross. If a company as large as them can't take the extra steps to ensure the plants they breed with are labeled correctly, I think that really speaks poorly of their SOP.

They need to verify their cut and let people know what they are selling so it doesn't confuse and muddy things more.

I've always preached transparency and accuracy when it comes to taking hard earned money from others. At least they are being clear they don't know what it is, but that admission does not negate them from their responsibility to continue to seek the answers and update their listing.

When I made the BooBerry Kush - Ghost OG x Bubba/Digi - I was very clear the Ghost wasn't fully verified yet and it turned out not to be the right cut. I'm VERY glad I only gave those seeds away to people bored and wanting something to play around with. It produced good smoke, but not something worthy of producing keepers.



dank.Frank

Nah, I'm not making any assumptions. Without knowing for sure, it is all just speculation.

It's ok though, I got the beans for free and promised to give them a fair shake in return.

It will be interesting to see what they turn out like.

 

[dank.frank]

@theBlaze - I hope you find something nice, all the same. Glad to know they were given vs being sold. I'm totally down with that approach, obviously! I suppose, if people start finding amazing plants, they'll want to know a bit more about what they have. LOL.

What was the LCOG you mentioned?



dank.Frank

 

[TheBlaze]

Lost Coast OG - Chem sis x Lemon Larry x NL#5

Originally bred by Zoolander. There were some words exchanged between Emerald Triangle and Zoolander over this strain. ET admitted it was actually Zoolanders work.

I miss that plant.