I <3 defoliation. thanks for this thread.
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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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S
SCROG McDuck
After hacking at a couple LSD plants, I've concluded that in
the future, I will be not DFing as much in veg.. but a little at the beginning of the stretch
and a lot, at the end of the stretch... really big fans go anytime.
at the moment I grow in a box and am always looking for ways
to 'makem' shorter'.. this definatly slows down upward growth..
Maybe it is because I can see the lower budsites better but there sure looks like there are many more...
I'm guessing if I can see them better, they'd be getting more light, air & O2 to those places as well as not holding ambient humidity,which causes mold and bad stuff..
The only problem, if it's a problem, is that it is fun to do..
I start and then, have a hard time stopping...
the future, I will be not DFing as much in veg.. but a little at the beginning of the stretch
and a lot, at the end of the stretch... really big fans go anytime.
at the moment I grow in a box and am always looking for ways
to 'makem' shorter'.. this definatly slows down upward growth..
Maybe it is because I can see the lower budsites better but there sure looks like there are many more...
I'm guessing if I can see them better, they'd be getting more light, air & O2 to those places as well as not holding ambient humidity,which causes mold and bad stuff..
The only problem, if it's a problem, is that it is fun to do..
I start and then, have a hard time stopping...
as far as i'm concerned rome wasnt built in a day if you try something once and it doesnt work try and do it differently.
I have been trimming a few off each plant daily and like i have said before to no ill effect, i am however showing a lot of good growth on the lower branches, perhaps i have a decent amout of light for the plant to suck up with the other leaves? who knows lol
I have been trimming a few off each plant daily and like i have said before to no ill effect, i am however showing a lot of good growth on the lower branches, perhaps i have a decent amout of light for the plant to suck up with the other leaves? who knows lol
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Slow Stone
It's sad how informative yet different thread turned out to be shitfight.
When i first saw a scrog it freaked me out. When i first heard about stem crushing aka supercropping, i thought its sadistic perversion. But its all about bud porn, right?
Now im one of those perverted freaks. And defoliation is just another cruel toy, aint it?
I know its hard to merge two different thoughts, one about usefulnes of leafs, and another of max light to the bud site, into constructive theory.
Kodiak did nice breefing in last page. I want to dicuss about some points.
"Sure, branches elongate when they are in the shade but it's not the buds that the plant is trying to push towards the light but the leaves"
Agree, but it pushes its two leaves upwards by streching the stem. Its lumber not bud. Lanky stems no good. That's Keef's main point. Defoliation decreses node spaceing and a node is a budsite.
When we bend down a plant it LOSES its top, and then it comes back again with MANY tops, like saying " i don't care you moron, i'm goin right up anyway!" Same with leaves, it comes back with more new growth.
YES, we rip the plant off its stocked supplies, we stunt it some, we now all about it, Keef said it in the beggining. But one who grows in small space might be willing to sacrifice some time to fill his limited space with plants having 20 + nodes/budsites and no fans intstead having lush green plant with taking all the place and only gaving ~10 nodes. Well, numbers froom the moon, but you get the picture, same picture Keef was talking about.
I'll definately will try it out. Maybe it's no good, but the way the idea was presented picked my interest, and thread itself was wellbehaved (if i can say it that way) but haters are roaming aound in these days and discusion is kindo out of order.
All you leafsavers, i like your humanistic aproach towards plants, but its not nice to call defoliators a bunch of dumb analphabets who cannot read there biology text books.
OOOh my longest post so far, sorry for spelling, i aint writing in my comon tongue.
When i first saw a scrog it freaked me out. When i first heard about stem crushing aka supercropping, i thought its sadistic perversion. But its all about bud porn, right?
Now im one of those perverted freaks. And defoliation is just another cruel toy, aint it?
I know its hard to merge two different thoughts, one about usefulnes of leafs, and another of max light to the bud site, into constructive theory.
Kodiak did nice breefing in last page. I want to dicuss about some points.
"Sure, branches elongate when they are in the shade but it's not the buds that the plant is trying to push towards the light but the leaves"
Agree, but it pushes its two leaves upwards by streching the stem. Its lumber not bud. Lanky stems no good. That's Keef's main point. Defoliation decreses node spaceing and a node is a budsite.
When we bend down a plant it LOSES its top, and then it comes back again with MANY tops, like saying " i don't care you moron, i'm goin right up anyway!" Same with leaves, it comes back with more new growth.
YES, we rip the plant off its stocked supplies, we stunt it some, we now all about it, Keef said it in the beggining. But one who grows in small space might be willing to sacrifice some time to fill his limited space with plants having 20 + nodes/budsites and no fans intstead having lush green plant with taking all the place and only gaving ~10 nodes. Well, numbers froom the moon, but you get the picture, same picture Keef was talking about.
I'll definately will try it out. Maybe it's no good, but the way the idea was presented picked my interest, and thread itself was wellbehaved (if i can say it that way) but haters are roaming aound in these days and discusion is kindo out of order.
All you leafsavers, i like your humanistic aproach towards plants, but its not nice to call defoliators a bunch of dumb analphabets who cannot read there biology text books.
OOOh my longest post so far, sorry for spelling, i aint writing in my comon tongue.
That's what irritates me.
I never have made any such statements, yet am continually responded to as though I had. I guess once one of these things turns into a fight, the people who enjoy the fighting can only respond to reasonable middle ground posts like I have made by pretending it is a "you're either for me or against me" situation.
And if it takes a plant significantly longer does that not play into calculation overall yield?
Would the significant statistic be weight/time?
If it takes me four months to end up with 15% more weight than I could've gotten in three months, then was there a gain?
I can see where this would be most effective in micro gardens, but it is also easy to see how it's effectiveness would decrease as garden size increases. My experiences match up to the way that logic indicates it works.
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Slow Stone
well, last time i was here it was 20-30 pages ago, and i'm not sure wich side first kicked the shitball. Don't mean to irritate anyone.
I think this topic itself is kindo irritateing.
Hey, comunity, simmer down, we are all closet perverts doing some weird gardening.
I think this topic itself is kindo irritateing.
Hey, comunity, simmer down, we are all closet perverts doing some weird gardening.
i'm on your side for this one
Head you keep ignoring my statement! As usual when someone makes a valid point!
Which light has more intensity a 400 watt hps or a 1000 watt hps? Which one has more penetration? Which one is going to give you more bud and why? Penetration will increase your yield. Light that never reaches an area is WASTED. If light does not penetrate to an area of a plant, what happens to that part of the plant? It does not do shit, it produces waste.
I will say it for the last time. When I defoliate a few times in flower, light hits the floor after...for about a week. During that week light is reaching Further down than it ever would have. The leaves grow back, and eventually I do it again. This made my buds thick All the way down, with Zero waste.
Take the same plants, shade let the leaves stack up, and see how much penetration you have. I would rather my light hit the floor for a week and bounce of the bottom of my fully reflective tent, than to just give light to the tops. I do not just grow for a few big colas. Because that is what happens, with too many leaves. When you harvest you have 3 piles. Good, ok, and trim. When I defoliate I have 2 piles. Good and Trim.
I used to have respect for you, but that is fading fast. Calling me stupid basically. Just because you are a breeder, does not mean you are right. You do not like to be challenged, or proven wrong. But in a couple of days I will post my increased yield, and you prolly wont believe me.
I did not ignore your point, and have never suggested leaving any part of the plant shaded.
I never called you stupid. I get your explanation better now.
That the light was hitting the floor was just an irrelevant side note, and not something you were shooting for.
It will be interesting to see how much better you come out final weight/time with more small buds as opposed to few bigger ones.
Every time I've ever done the experimentation, Few bigger buds has won.
You did not come out and say I was stupid, you implied it. Like I said before I do not need a scale to tell me I increased my yield. I grow it and trim it myself everytime. I am glad you agree that more similar size buds will out yield a few big ones and a bunch of various size buds. This is what defoliating did for me.
Like I said earlier, I agree with the Science behind everything you speak. But like all good scientists, I experimented to prove others wrong. People like you who have 1000 watt banks of lights and huge rooms grow differently, as would I. First off it would be alot of work with tons of plants. Secondly, the light is naturally stronger...which means more penetration right off the bat.
BTW, you speak of time. Your plants finish almost a week sooner with defoliating, so if anything that increased my yield even more! If you defoliate in veg, it will increase your veg time....but to some that is not a bad thing. If you take a clone before you put your plants into flower and have a lack of space. Try keeping that clone from getting to large before your 8-9 weeks is up. It is a PITA to keep topping, that just bushes it out way more.
Hello GratefulHead and THANK YOU
I ordered beans and they did not arrive, so to the bagseed I went, and, since this is a good time to experiment I have followed your advice and those who confirm it. Since about 3 wks from seed I have been defoling under a 400. LST and bondage are my tactics to spread these babies out in a 2x3 E&F, until they show sex. THEY are the best I've ever seen in about a dozen grows over 8 yrs. (personal stash only) ANYWAY I'll let you know how it goes. I REALLY like the quote from Buddha.
THANKS AGAIN for your hard work and all your good generosity.
RESPECT
spangles
I ordered beans and they did not arrive, so to the bagseed I went, and, since this is a good time to experiment I have followed your advice and those who confirm it. Since about 3 wks from seed I have been defoling under a 400. LST and bondage are my tactics to spread these babies out in a 2x3 E&F, until they show sex. THEY are the best I've ever seen in about a dozen grows over 8 yrs. (personal stash only) ANYWAY I'll let you know how it goes. I REALLY like the quote from Buddha.
THANKS AGAIN for your hard work and all your good generosity.
RESPECT
spangles
Better watch out Spangles, Head does not agree with defoliating. Oh wait, they are the best you have seen in over 8 years and your defoliating?
Um, the only objective way you can truly tell if your yield increased is to weigh it.
Just cuz you trim it, and the pile looks bigger or trimming takes longer or whatever other subjective measurement you are using, does not mean your yield increased.
Maybe they finish sooner cuz there's less to finish then there would have been if you didn't defoliate. I don't understand how that increases your yield? Cuz you can get another round in quicker?
Without objective measurements all I'm seeing is a bunch of guesses.
Let's move on...if someone doesn't like this thread they don't have to read it nor make any comment...
Dude I have been growing for over a decade. If you cannot look at your plants and see the difference between your previous yields...they you do not have a good eye. If you read my posts, you would see that I am going to weigh everything, once it is dry...as always. Give me a few days, they are hanging.
I already stated that there is more bud this time and they finished sooner. Maybe they finish sooner because every part of the plant is getting light. Ever have some premature looking Larf as you go further down the stem? Wont happen if you defoliate. How does it increase yield? What weighs more, some leafy, airy buds that never get light or Dense nugs all the way down?
Do some reading before you just jump in and give your opinion. I will prove you wrong in a few days. BTW maybe you cant visually tell you yielded more, because you use CFLs.
M
MicroDude
He is starting to get a track record for this. The only way to fix it is to complain to somebody that can remove him. The only problem is he trolls the forums all day and deletes posts so fast. Good luck keeping yours up.
If you ordered seeds and they did not arrive, i hope you have gotten with the distributor to get it sorted out.
I LST as well, repeatedly bending the stems to keep everything maximally exposed to the lighting. and growing horizontally until buds start bulking up. Sometimes my gals are 30" across before they're 15" tall. The only thing my fans are blocking light from is the floor and my walls.
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