Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[Bassy59]

Gotta love & hate the ignorant ones like JWP (gtd he posts again). They want to expound their professionalism in growing, yet absolutely refuse to actually make even ONE experimental grow using this technique, exactly as instructed.

They call out for side by side as the ONLY possible proof to the technique, yet refuse to accept the simplest of reasons why side by side is NOT an effective nor reasonable comparison, as stated in POST #153 OF THIS THREAD! Such a simple concept is over the head of simpletons like JWP.

They use monster outdoor grows where the sun delivers over 10k lumen top to bottom, with plants veged for 4 months, as reason not to defoliate, EVEN THOUGH the op states "It's a way to maximize production in a
limited amount of artificially lit space." *Don't forget, that 1k hps delivers roughly 5k lumen at 32" from the bulb. Is there a difference?

When they do show indoor grows, rarely are they anything less than an extremely large commercial grow with massive amounts of light, yet even rarer do they provide any statistical evidence that these growers are netting anything near 100 grams (dry) per cubic foot, whilst those of us using this technique have shown yields upwards of 119 grams per cubic foot. Even when they try to prove not defoliating works better, they fail.


But alas, ignorance is bliss.

 

[whodare]

proper pruning is based on the situation.



if your growing in a fucking computer cab you might be able to squeeze a few grams extra out raping 80-90% of your foliage.

part of it is that to get a big enough root system you have to veg which leads to an overabundance of foliage for the space.

kudo's.


problem is

that shit doesnt scale up. if i have the space and light why the fuck would i stress the shit out of my plants to modify shape.

if you stay on top of it you can prune eveyday a few leafs here, a few sucker branches there.there is no stressing the plant that way and you will get all the benefits of increased branching, tighter nodes, increased bud quality.



so in conclusion


pruning is a necessary cultural practice in floriculture/horticulture, "defoliating" is not.

defoliating is an extreme, useful for grows in extremely small spaces...

pruning is not defoliation as described in this thread.

 

[whodare]

and one more thing, enough of the anecdotal evidence....

grows from seeds are anecdotal at best.


a side by side absolutely can be done too, it would require two 1ks, two 4x4 or similar trays, 50-72 plants, and someone who has their growing method and strain dialed in.

after a few grows you would get an idea if there was a noticeable statistical improvement in yeild. first you would need to know what your yeild variance is. so if over 5 grows you yield between 1.5-1.7# then to see a statistical improvement you would need to consistently yield 1.7 and above, as rarely does a grow yield the exact same as the last.


i doubt anyone will take the time though.

 

[iampolluted]

i got the time, space, and lights to do it. now if i only had the 60+ plants i need to do it.

the funny thing about jwp is his link to "yield" in his sig. has the defoliation tech. included in the post lol.

the thing most people overlook is that even when plants are defoliated, they STILL have their "solar" panels. they are smaller panels but they still do the job. sugar leaves, and smaller leaves are still leaves that are able to produce energy for the plants. leaf size is irrelevant being that large or small leaves are still capable of photosynthesis. take a reveg for example. most people who reveg leave smaller leaves that will grow out. they aren't taking all the buds and leaving fan leaves.

needless to say, those who say defoliation doesn't work are closed minded and don't understand plant biology, let alone it's physiology. my sog plants are defoliated, yet they are still alive, haven't been "set back", and are flowering as they should because they still have leaves to function. leaf counts and leaf size don't mean shit, a leaf is a leaf weather it's the size of your hand of the size of a quarter. that being said, both are capable of keeping a plant in energy as long as it has light and food.

 

[St3ve]

Whats funny is that for those of us (the op, myself, and others) who have come to fully understand the application of this tech, can plainly see the benefits. I mean really, it changes the over all structure of the plant. Night and day compared to growing out a plant.. and a noticeable increase in yield. Yet, people insist on us sacrificing our OWN yield to try and prove something to them. I for one am not here to sacrifice $$ just to try and prove something to someone.

If you don't want to try this tech, then don't. Showing us successful gardens without the use of this tech is irrelevant. OBVIOUSLY you don't have to use this tech to grow nice plants. Geez..

 

[whodare]

i got the time, space, and lights to do it. now if i only had the 60+ plants i need to do it.

i wait with baited breath...

seriously though, id really like to see a side by side as i described.

the thing most people overlook is that even when plants are defoliated, they STILL have their "solar" panels. they are smaller panels but they still do the job.

using your solar panel analogy, lets take 90% of the solar panels off a building that runs strictly off said solar panels and tell me you dont stress the system.

logic people, logic.

sugar leaves, and smaller leaves are still leaves that are able to produce energy for the plants. leaf size is irrelevant being that large or small leaves are still capable of photosynthesis. take a reveg for example. most people who reveg leave smaller leaves that will grow out. they aren't taking all the buds and leaving fan leaves.

yes and reveging takes forever and even when they are back in veg the first few weeks are sloww because of the small plant/leafs and all the stress.

needless to say, those who say defoliation doesn't work are closed minded and don't understand plant biology, let alone it's physiology.

see thats where the wires are crossed. there is a difference between defoliation and pruning.

pruning is used to maintain healthy plants and modify growth pattern, defoliation is used to either kill plants or induce faster ripening in some fruits like apples and such.

in commercial applications certain plant growth regulators are applied in a foliar spray. they induce leaf senescence and fruit ripening through hormonal responses and as an ancillary, better light penetration

my sog plants are defoliated, yet they are still alive, haven't been "set back", and are flowering as they should because they still have leaves to function. leaf counts and leaf size don't mean shit, a leaf is a leaf weather it's the size of your hand of the size of a quarter. that being said, both are capable of keeping a plant in energy as long as it has light and food.

your grow may be great but your following statement was patently false.

a leaf the size of your hand has dozens of times more surface area than a leaf at the growing tips, there by producing significantly more energy for root and shoot growth, period.



bottom line pruning is a normal practice in many circumstances defoliation has limited uses: fruit ripening and bonsai even then with caution.




http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdefoliating.htm

A Warning about Defoliation

Defoliating or leaf-cutting is a technique that involves removing the leaves of deciduous and broadleaf bonsai during the Summer; it forces the bonsai to produce a replacement set of leaves in a second 'false' Spring flush of growth. This replacement set of leaves results in increased ramification and leaf density, a reduction in leaf size and internode length and finally, superior Autumn colours.

Many enthusiasts first try defoliating on trees that are not horticulturally and/or aesthetically ready for defoliation.
Before describing defoliating techniques in detail, it is worth highlighting the need for trees to be healthy and vigorous before leaf-cutting is carried out. The removal of the leaves from a tree is debilitating and will temporarily weaken any bonsai; defoliating should only ever be carried out on vigorous specimens that will be able to recover from the process. Trees that are showing signs of weak growth, whether it be due to recent repotting, disease, styling or recent hard pruning, are not suitable for defoliating.
Be aware that defoliating can be so taxing on a bonsai that failure to respond can occur if the tree is not vigorous; parts of the branch system can be weakened to the point that they die-back.
Defoliating is also a technique intended for 'finished' bonsai only; a tree intended for defoliation will have the trunk, primary, secondary and tertiary branches established. Defoliating a tree that requires branch or trunk building will slow down development of these parts greatly.
Different tree species react in a variety of ways to defoliating; some respond quickly and strongly to total defoliation (to the extent that they can be defoliated more than once a year) while with other species it is preferable to only partially defoliate.

Total Defoliation

The most common way to defoliate a tree is to remove each and every leaf with scissors, leaving the leaf-stalk or petiole behind. The remaining petioles nourish the tree as new buds contained within the leaf-axils begin to extend and open out. As the new leaves start to open out, the petioles dry out and fall away from the branches.
After defoliating a tree, leave it in good light to stimulate stronger budding, particularly from inner and lower branches. Without leaves, a defoliated bonsai will require less watering.
The new leaves start to emerge 3-6 weeks after defoliation (depending on the exact timing, tree vigour and tree species) and are smaller and more numerous. Vigorous trees will also back bud as a result of defoliation.
The exact timing of defoliation differs from one tree species to another. As a very general guideline, leaf-cutting can be carried out after the spring flush of growth has hardened off (the leaves lose their spring colour and become more 'leathery'). For more detailed timing notes please see the specific species guide later in this article.
Immediately after total defoliation, the tree is bare for the first time since Spring and it is possible to study the branch structure; this is an ideal time to prune, wire and style a deciduous tree.

Partial Defoliation

Partially defoliating a bonsai is much kinder and with some tree species is preferred to total defoliation. Large leaves (or the largest leaves) are gradually removed through the growing season until late Summer, these large leaves are slowly replaced by smaller leaves as and when required.
There are several advantages to partial defoliation; the stress of leaf removal is spread over a number of weeks or months. The largest leaves tend to be in the strongest, most apical areas of the tree (that is, the tips of the branches, particularly in the crown or apex) and their removal enables light to reach the weak, inner and lower branching. In this way, partial defoliation can be used as a means to reinvigorating the weaker, lower areas of a tree by weakening the apical areas.

http://msucares.com/crops/cotton/discussion.html

Defoliation General Discussion

Deciding when to defoliate a crop is an important decision from several stand points. If the crop is defoliated too soon, yields, quality and profits suffer. On the other hand, depending on the location and the field condition, delaying defoliation may increase likelihood of additional insect problems, or delaying harvest into bad weather which will effect yield and profits. That is why defoliation decisions must be based on the crop and the crop environment. Plant maturity is perhaps the most important factor, but other factors such as picking capacity, custom harvesting, and weather are also important.

Defoliation is an important management practice associated with high yields and high quality cotton. The decision as to how and when to remove the leaves and open the bolls appears to be one of the more difficult tasks confronting a cotton grower. There are so many variables involved that the results of harvest aid applications are often unpredictable and sometimes even undesirable. You would think that after more than 40 years of research in this area we could obtain desirable results under all circumstances. However, this is not always true, and we often have failures. Thus, defoliation has come to be considered as much art as science.

There are many benefits that can be expected from a good defoliation job. Many experiments have shown that defoliation improves picker efficiency in fields with large green plants. Additionally, defoliated fields tend to dry out faster, permit more picking hours per day and allow picking sooner after rain. Defoliation also cuts off the food supply to late season insects that are entering diapause. Under certain conditions, defoliation has reduced boll rot by creating better drying conditions in the field. This is especially true in rank cotton.

Defoliation may also have some disadvantages and limitations. When plants are defoliated, the fiber and seed development essentially stops. Therefore, if too many bolls are immature at the time of application there can be a reduction in yield and quality associated with the treatment.

Cotton leaves have a mechanism that causes them to fall from the plant after they become senescent. This physiological process which involves the separation of living tissue from the living plant occurs in a specialized zone located near the base of the leaf petiole referred to as the "abscission zone". Abscission occurs due to enzyme activity within this zone and is regulated by hormones which are produced in the leaf. This regulation occurs as a resulting gradient in hormone concentration between the main-stem side and the leaf side of the abscission zone. The enzymes that are in this zone dissolve the cell walls, and the weight of leaf. Wind will cause the leaf to drop from the plant. Young, actively growing leaves produce an abundance of hormones which are translocated down the petiole to the main-stem. This tends to keep the leaf on the plant. As the leaf becomes older and more mature, hormone production decreases and the leaf becomes more susceptible to senescence factors such as hormone imbalances and defoliation. Factors other than age may also upset the hormone balance in the leaf. Some of these factors are injury, insect damage, disease, nutrient stress, water stress, cold stress or chemical injury. These injuries may upset the hormonal balance and initiate the abscission process and cause the leaves to fall from the plant much like an application of defoliant.

Basically, a defoliant chemical is designed to inflict sufficient injury to the leaf to upset the hormone balance at the abscission zone and allow enzymes to begin the abscission process. If too much chemical is applied, the leaf may be killed before the hormone imbalance occurs resulting in "stuck" leaves. If too little is applied the abscission process may not be initiated and result in a complete failure.

There are several factors which will directly impact the effect a defoliate chemical application may have. These are the condition of the plant, weather conditions at the time of application and for a couple of days after, and the chemical itself. The first two of these are by far the most important, and both must be within a reasonable range of limits in order for any of the chemicals to work.

Plant Effect: Plants are more easily defoliated when the cultural practices followed throughout the growing season are designed to promote well-fruited plants that mature evenly and early. This includes uniform stands, adequate but not excessive moisture and fertilization, and proper, well-timed insect, disease, and weed control. Proper management of the plant canopy with a Plant Growth Regulator may be beneficial in many cases. Generally speaking, defoliation is more easily accomplished when the plants have stopped both vegetative and reproductive growth, or if they have completely cut out. The ideal situation would be for the plant to reach maturity and run out of nitrogen and water at the same time. That rarely occurs in a field situation so we have to do the best we can.

 

[Greyskull]

using your solar panel analogy, lets take 90% of the solar panels off a building that runs strictly off said solar panels and tell me you dont stress the system.

logic people, logic.

sometimes what things are suppose to do and what they actually do differs dude. thats true logic.

Here on Maui, building have EXTRA solor panels simply for thhe sake of storing & selling the extra power back to MECO. So, in theory, you could remove solar panels and no cause too much stress. Because those panels are not collecting power for immediate use. Does that make sense?

Will it "stress the system"? Maybe. Depends on if the building was depending on the added income from the power sales or if it was simply an extra revenue stream. Maybe the owner of the building doesnt think his employees work hard enough with the extra power pumping up the AC making them super comfortable and content, so he removes the power to the AC (ie solar panels) and they employees decide they want to spend less time fucking around at work and more time getting shit done. Not all stress is bad. Yeah the workers have to work a little harder. Of course this will only fly if the owner takes really good care of his employees so they can put up with the lack of comfort.

I hope that analogy works for you.... tried to tie it into what you were saying.

You don't take all the leaves off at once. That is the way to cause the stress. But if you remove a few leaves here and there daily, its not a big deal. You ever prune your plant - do they get mad and die, or do they keep on trucking? hahahahaha

There's a right way and a wrong way.

Everyone is waiting with baited breath for a "side by side" test,. LMFAO @ that.

Why are people so afraid of trying it on their own on one of their own plants for shits and giggles? Maybe just maybe find out something on their own.

FOLKS NEED TO EARN SOME KNOWLEDGE INSTEAD OF WANTING IT FORCE FED TO YOU SO YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU DO AND DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT.

Reading is good. DOING is better...

C'mon folks ACTION!

 

[Greyskull]

Thus, defoliation has come to be considered as much art as science.

THIS IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM/ISSUE.

Defoliation has become an art. And art is subjective.
Science is not subjective - it is absolute.

That is why there is this huge beef with defolers vs non defolers in my opinion...

Carry on

 

[whodare]

greyskull, did you read any of the rest of the post of any of my other post?

I AM ABSOLUTELY PROMOTING PROPER PRUNING(sorry for the caps, i want clarity)

that includes, as i said before, frequent removal of sucker branches, and large leafs blocking light to lower nodes. in veg for me, 10% gets stripped a week.

i personally leave as many large leafs below as i can.

i get rid of all suckers and clear out the canopy i little more aggressively(30%) 3 days to a week before flower so that they are 100% recovered and ready to blast off in stretch.

in stretch i resume frequent but light leaf and sucker removal, and then 3-4 days before the end of stretch i clear the rest of the suckers and leafs.

from the end of stretch on its strictly leaf removal only when it is large and blocking or resting on a nearby bud, and only if it cant be tucked away.



so i repeat im for good cultural practices ie pruning throughout the grow cycle...

but extreme defoliation is only for extreme circumstances, small spaces, extreme humidity in late cycle, quick ripening(if done wrong delayed).

 

[Greyskull]

I did read your post/s and I appreciate your response to ensure you're point is received as intended.

Maybe I need to edit I guess I probably worded it incorrectly/with the wrong "tone"...

but im picking up what youre paying down

 

[Iffy-Caradoc]

proper pruning is based on the situation.



if your growing in a fucking computer cab you might be able to squeeze a few grams extra out raping 80-90% of your foliage.

part of it is that to get a big enough root system you have to veg which leads to an overabundance of foliage for the space.

kudo's.


problem is

that shit doesnt scale up. if i have the space and light why the fuck would i stress the shit out of my plants to modify shape.

if you stay on top of it you can prune eveyday a few leafs here, a few sucker branches there.there is no stressing the plant that way and you will get all the benefits of increased branching, tighter nodes, increased bud quality.



so in conclusion


pruning is a necessary cultural practice in floriculture/horticulture, "defoliating" is not.

defoliating is an extreme, useful for grows in extremely small spaces...

pruning is not defoliation as described in this thread.

I totally agree and assumed we were talking about 'sensible' defoliation, (defoliation is the wrong word) - PRUNING.
It's being going on since Adam was a lad & every gardener in the world employs it.
I can't believe that some are advocating wholesale, even total defoliation over a short time period, that's bonkers. You've got to train the plants really early to accept constant but steady, reasoned pruning. In my experience, yields are greater when you keep on top of the pruning and prune the low growth as soon as it shows. The plant doesn't feel the need to send precious growth hormone to lower, shaded branches. The top canopy of buds then get all the nutrition and all the light. Simples - bigger buds. However, pruning is sometimes an obsessive thing and it's difficult to keep your hands off them! You must, because if you're over aggresive and shock the plants, they won't recover for two weeks and that's your potential gain lost!
Do it early, do it regularly, do it with thought and do it with restraint!
Keep safe

 

[TGT]

I don't think taking a few leaves here and there are going to hurt the plant and probably would be beneficial to some extent as a plant in the wild makes more leaves than it needs to compensate for insect, wind damage ect. So with taking a few leaves to open bud sites and create more light to the interior would probably be good for smaller grows. That said, I don't beleive larger gardens with more light would benefit as much. Lastly, I am probably going to get nailed for this, but I don't believe taking too many or all leaves at once or anytime will increase yield in a garden of moderate to larger size. I think moderation is good for smaller grows since you want bud and not leaf shading everything, but in a larg grow with much light leave well enough alone in my opinion. Just my input from experience I had in many past grows, but I am no god at growing so I could be wrong, although I like to think not. But, what ever works for you works, then that's great.

Ps: Please don't neg rep me, it's only my opinion and I am not saying it is written in stone. I found it hard just to post my own experience here since this thread seems kind of scarry lol.

Best of luck to all!

TGT

 

[Bassy59]

lol TGT, you are a perfect example (don't mean to pick on you but the example is good).

You say "I believe" or "I dont believe" a few times.

I say, "This is my experience", or "I did x", or "I do this".

Opinions are like feet, most everyone has a couple, and you know they smell.

I'm presently drying 1160 grams (wet) from 1 plant (did a 4 plant grow), defoliated (and I do mean STRIPPED) twice in veg, Hit HARD at end of stretch, and kept defoliated of any fan leaves with a 1" stem from that point to harvest. Flowered in 5x5 tent, no co2. Over 10 oz dry from 1 plant, grown roughly 38" cubed.

HOW the FUCK can people insist this is bad or doesnt work in the face of evidence to the contrary?

I don't care if you choose to not use this method, or that this method doesnt fit for your style of growing (like the dipshit that wants to do 70 plants side by side in 4x4 trays?). That's fine. This isnt the end all be all of growing! This fits a certain niche of grower. Commonly those with limited but decent space, and plant number limitations. For me as example, I am allowed 4 mature plants (mature is defined as in flower). That's it! And I need to make edibles. So I need a but load to last 2.5 months. This method fits my niche perfectly.

Just don't come in and say it doesnt work, or stresses out the plants, or anything about god damn solar panels when you haven't tried it, are speaking your opinion, or some bullshit you read elsewhere, when people are in fact SHOWING their results right here!

*steps down off soap box

 

[whodare]

I'm sorry but you are retarded if you think stripping plants down 80% doesn't set them back.

Defoliation is not pruning.

 

[Bassy59]

I'm sorry but you are retarded if you think stripping plants down 80% doesn't set them back.

Defoliation is not pruning.

Not sure exactly what you mean here. If it means what I think I highly suggest you read post #394 from the op in this thread.

Again, until you have actually put this practice as described into a grow or two, everything you say on the topic is opinion or conjecture.

I don't mean to say I am some great grower or anything, but how many indoor growers do you think get 10 oz dry (or more) out of a 32-36 cubic in space? For me, that's one plant of my 4 plant limitation.

If you get specific about your "set them back" meaning I'd be happy to address that with my own EXPERIENCE, not opinion.

 

[Iffy-Caradoc]

sometimes what things are suppose to do and what they actually do differs dude. thats true logic.

Here on Maui, building have EXTRA solor panels simply for thhe sake of storing & selling the extra power back to MECO. So, in theory, you could remove solar panels and no cause too much stress. Because those panels are not collecting power for immediate use. Does that make sense?

Will it "stress the system"? Maybe. Depends on if the building was depending on the added income from the power sales or if it was simply an extra revenue stream. Maybe the owner of the building doesnt think his employees work hard enough with the extra power pumping up the AC making them super comfortable and content, so he removes the power to the AC (ie solar panels) and they employees decide they want to spend less time fucking around at work and more time getting shit done. Not all stress is bad. Yeah the workers have to work a little harder. Of course this will only fly if the owner takes really good care of his employees so they can put up with the lack of comfort.

I hope that analogy works for you.... tried to tie it into what you were saying.

You don't take all the leaves off at once. That is the way to cause the stress. But if you remove a few leaves here and there daily, its not a big deal. You ever prune your plant - do they get mad and die, or do they keep on trucking? hahahahaha

There's a right way and a wrong way.

Everyone is waiting with baited breath for a "side by side" test,. LMFAO @ that.

Why are people so afraid of trying it on their own on one of their own plants for shits and giggles? Maybe just maybe find out something on their own.

FOLKS NEED TO EARN SOME KNOWLEDGE INSTEAD OF WANTING IT FORCE FED TO YOU SO YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU DO AND DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT.

Reading is good. DOING is better...

C'mon folks ACTION!

Love the analogy Greyskull. There is always a situation that can confound anyones 'solid' fact or 'logic'.
Do what makes YOU happy and don't have a closed mind.
If you think practically, it would be easy for the growers who don't believe in the benefits of Defoliation to apply it to just one or two plants in their grow. For us to do the opposite is not practical.
There are many wonderful ways to grow, who are we to judge one over the other? To some, the final yield is not everything. It's easy to jump onto a soap box and bang your chest, it's entirely another to applaud your critics for their shared commitment and shared common love. You know you're still going to do what you think/know is right, so why hate the opposition?
For there is no opposition. Without Ying, there is no Yang!
Stay safe

 

[whodare]

Not sure exactly what you mean here. If it means what I think I highly suggest you read post #394 from the op in this thread.

Again, until you have actually put this practice as described into a grow or two, everything you say on the topic is opinion or conjecture.

I don't mean to say I am some great grower or anything, but how many indoor growers do you think get 10 oz dry (or more) out of a 32-36 cubic in space? For me, that's one plant of my 4 plant limitation.

If you get specific about your "set them back" meaning I'd be happy to address that with my own EXPERIENCE, not opinion.

I have done it and I've done it on clones that I know well. It will stunt growth. A better option is to prune as appropriate too achieve the same goal.


You say 10oz from 1200 g's wet I say bullshit, properly dried your looking at a half pound. And if you grew that in a 6"x6"x1" space I say you should give a bedroom a try you'd yield a bajillion pounds...


Set back means stall, delay growth. Cm'on


Here is a proper application of mechanical defoliation on marijuana on a commercial scale. It prevents mold during an extended harvest, and allows lowers to get that finished look in the last days before chop. Pruning a few leafs and sucker branches here and there is not defoliation. A more agressive prune before flower or after stretch is not defoliation. Stripping a plant down 80% will stunt growth, you can get the same benefit from regular light to moderate pruning.

Hahahaha!!! I am very much in love with my job...here are some pics from out there-- There are 4 sections, each is 56' X 24'...here is a pic of each section-- We were in the middle of defoliating right before harvesting the Spring crop last year-- All Afgahni, all in 15 gal pots

 

[Infinitesimal]

Please Read... C A R E F U L L Y

Please Read... C A R E F U L L Y

sometimes when I talk politics with certain friends... everything gets misconstrued into polar extremes, focus gets applied to one single phrase taken out of context instead of digesting the argument as a whole and then come all kinds of irrelevant points all while the facts go misunderstood and or unacknowledged, I have a feeling (along with much observation) that's what is going on here with the Non-Defol crowd. As Defoliators we say "strip CERTAIN fan leaves, progressively, at the right time" and the Non-Defol crowd hears "strip your plant of every single leaf!" The truth is this technique is an advanced art of plant training and canopy management, it is somewhat intuitive (so some may never get the hang of it), and there can be a learning curve involved with developing a sense of when to Defoliate and when not to

Before I get started, seemingly all of the detractors like to make the solar panel analogy... and that by removing the leaf is like having one less solar panel on your roof which means less energy for your appliances (or in this case your plant)... well that is not a fair analogy in many respects (since leaves and solar panels work in very different ways). but to make a point imagine you have a roof covered in solar panels creating electricity... and you only use 1/2 of the energy produced... then you sell the other half to the grid for money (so money is the final harvest of the panels as buds are of our plants).

to make a proper analogy one would have to imagine a roof with twice as many solar panels that can fit in the given surface area, meaning solar panels would be on top of one another shading part or whole of the panel below it. Now if we go up on the roof and rearrange the solar panels correctly and remove and sell some of the excess panels and equipment causing the shade (or remove the excess fan leaf). The panels will produce the same amount of electricity, because light is now hitting the panels below which never received enough light prior "De-paneling", while netting more money per month because of the lower set up & maintenance costs of half the panels (panels = leaves & money = bud). Get the light to where it can be used most effectively and efficiently and you will net more (either money from selling solar power or buds from growing cannabis)


OK, got that outta the way...
I will try, along with a couple visual aids, to elaborate and explain when and why to remove otherwise healthy leaves from the plant.

as we can see here, prior to any Defoliation, there are fan leaves shading the lateral branches that will some day grow into buds... so one of the main goals is to coax that branch into growing larger and producing more bud sites prior to flowering... by giving it more light... by removing the fan leaves above that shade it. That DOES NOT mean with no judgement go through and remove all of the fans that shade any branch. BECAUSE until a lateral branch has sprouted enough of it's own leaves to photosynthesize enough of its own energy to sustain its growth... it relies on the fan below it, growing from the same node off the main stem, to support it's metabolism and will be stunted and grow very slowly if that said fan is removed to early... but if one waits until said lateral branch has at least 2-3 open leaves of its own, then it will not be stunted and the branches below it will NEARLY catch up to it as well as begin to develop secondary branches of its own! Resulting in more flowers from the same amount of space with less leaf to trim off at the end!



^^ I waited a lil while longer than necessary to begin Defol on these, but when I finally did begin, I left the top 3-4 fans intact because the lateral branches sharing that node do not have enough leaf to support their own photosynthetic needs... but within a few more day after that I would take another leaf or two as I see fit all without ever stunting or stressing the plant in anyway

After a couple rounds of Defoliation...

No stress... all of the now unshaded branches have exploded in growth reaching up to compete with the main stem, as well as beginning to develop branches of their own... and once those secondary branches are cable of supporting their own energy needs I will begin to defoliate the primary lateral branches as well.

besides yield and an increased quality of what would otherwise turn into Larf... strategic removal of leaves gives pests less places to hide and proliferate as well as increasing airflow helping to reduce chances of PM and mold issues.

yes you can stunt your plant and cause harm to your yield if you defoliate improperly or to fast... there was a noob in here a while back with tall spindly plants and was trying every trick he could read to get larger yields and frostier nugs, he went through his plants and picked nearly all the fans off at once... it looked like a bunch of twigs packed together. No doubt that did not help him, but he also didn't do it properly and never should have even attempted it on that crop.

If someone does not like Defoliation... cool do things your way nobody will fault you for that. But coming in here to argue your point that Defol is a negative and detrimental practice only makes it harder for some of us to help a person new to the idea understand, how to do it properly so they don't hurt their plants or yield.

Thanks for your time,
Peace
Infi

 

[village green]

Thanks for the light.

 

[St3ve]

I have done it and I've done it on clones that I know well. It will stunt growth. A better option is to prune as appropriate too achieve the same goal.


Set back means stall, delay growth. Cm'on

It DOES stunt growth.. as mentioned several several times in this thread... including the OP, and myself. If you veg in a seperate area, and time things correctly, then it does not impact flowering times whatsoever.

Pruning does NOT provide the same results. You obviously either have NOT actually done it, or have not done it correctly.