Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[CatManDoo]

After flowering?

After flowering?

Damn this is a long thread! I was trying to find some info about defoliating after she's gone into flower. Bad idea? I wish I'd found this post earlier, but now my girls are still bushy and only 3 or 4 weeks from harvest. Is it too late? Also, what about doing this technique with Feminized plants?

 

[Greensub]

Damn this is a long thread! I was trying to find some info about defoliating after she's gone into flower. Bad idea? I wish I'd found this post earlier, but now my girls are still bushy and only 3 or 4 weeks from harvest. Is it too late? Also, what about doing this technique with Feminized plants?

You might consider just lightly DF'ing at this point. If you have a really bushy structure consider removal of your older fully mature leaves that are attached directly to a stem internode, but I would leave the bud leaves alone.

 

[CatManDoo]

Thanks,
I've been just plucking here and there to expose the little buds down in the jungle. There's always next time I guess.

 

[Greensub]

Thanks,
I've been just plucking here and there to expose the little buds down in the jungle. There's always next time I guess.

That's pretty much what it would work out to be.

 

[justwatchin]

Damn this is a long thread! I was trying to find some info about defoliating after she's gone into flower. Bad idea? I wish I'd found this post earlier, but now my girls are still bushy and only 3 or 4 weeks from harvest. Is it too late? Also, what about doing this technique with Feminized plants?

I prune in late flowering to help speed the curing process. It does improve smoke quality when done in late flowering. I've found an article by DJ-short explaining why this happens. Side by side after side by side, I've found it better to leave the fan leaves on in early flowering and tipp the plant at the highest possible vistible node space, weather single stem set-up, or a multi-limbed plant, at 3-5 days of flower initiation. This creates a plant with multiple tops on a single stem, rather than 2 tops with 2-stems giving you more top bud in the area of light penetration in a smaller space. When topped at the highest possible point, it has not altered the stretch but re-directs it to the bud sites that all develop the same size as top colas. When done on day 1 the specimens were too spaced out and laterals developed too much like rgular topping, but you must do it during the stretch or it proves to be counter productive. Strains I have done this on so far and noted increase in yield are Bangi-Haze, SSH-shanti, Happybrother Bx1, Oger99, White berry-Paradise, and Angel Breath. It accomplishes the same task that defoliating is attempting to do, that is put more bud in the area of highest light concentration. Especially useful in high density, perpetual, HID gardens. The HB bx1 developed more similar to being tipped in vegg, but with bud sites closer to main stem.

Also if you wish to have a multi- limmed clone that develops quite naturally with speed, put your mother 1wk into onset then take cuts. Allot quicker than hacking off all the leaves. With allot more busites.

Another technique I employ that has dramatically improved my yields in my HID garden especially.
" When applying to young seedlings or cuttings, allow them to reach approximately 20-25cm before first treatment. In the case of multiple single stem setups, this would coincide with onset inducement for Indica-dominant strains. However, for Sativa-dominant strains having onset induced at 15-20cm, this is the only time this should be initiated this early.

The procedure, due to soft stems, involves a gentle squeeze between thumb and index finger before a crack is heard or felt, or the stem softens,but avoid compressing the stem altogether. Correctly treated the plant can either remain upright or sag over when the procedure is finished. If cuttings sag over, no problem as they will return to vertical position over a few days to one week, while reinforcement of the stem takes place. For treatment to large established plants, the procedure changes and even the secondaries can be mature enough to require more work than a squeeze can achieve. Take the lateral or secondary and gently roll the stem between your index finger and thumb, adding a slight amount of pressure. After rolling the stem several times, it will soften but the surface will not break. Roll until the head rotates three quarters of a full turn, then gently back the other way. Start low down the stem, avoid crushing, and if the nodal sites are too close start further up. If the plant is young it is easy to rotate the stem too far and the head snaps clean off, but it doesn't take long to get the technique right. Up the main stem apply treatment at equal distances, approximately 2cm. The stems can sag over as if they've been denied water. After 24-72 hours they should be vertical again and then the plant will focus on repairing the damage internally and reinforcing the damaged area to ensure this injury does not reoccur. This will halt the plants growth for 3-7 days depending on the thoroughness of the treatment.

The technique changes on the second treatment as the plant has matured and the stem has thickened from the first treatment. This time a better grip is required and a bit more grunt. Taking mature plant in a firm grip between index finger and thumb, using both ands turn gently in opposite directions until a chiropractic crack can be heard or felt between fingers; if you hear that sound, you've successfully damaged the inner hurd without damaging the outer stem. If there is no crack but the stem has been rotated, the process is still successful as the hurd cannot remain intact when opposing forces are applied to the stems. Depending on the strain and maturity of the plant there maybe some work for a thorough job.

Take your time and be fully focused on you job or accidents will happen. It is best to remove the plant from the crop to work on comfortably. The end result is larger stems, allowing the plant to absorb greater volumes of water more quickly than with standard stems, and this is reflected in substantial increase in yields.

It does not take long to familiarize yourself with this technique and the results can be astounding. Do not do this more than three times, and allow for good recovery before each treatment; try not to go back over areas already treated, always treat new growth only. First treatment should be approximately 25-30cm and the last at the inducement of onset. Do not apply later than the start of the second wk of onset as this may delay budding." ~Albie
Happy growing

 

[Ember1]

I pull a lot of the larger leaves off at the end of veg, and also on into early bloom. I leave one larger leaf at each branch/bud site towards the tips of the branches. I thin them out to where the plants are branchy, but still have leaves to store and pull from when the plant needs it. Each defoliation is usually done in one session. Throughout the rest of bloom I lightly pluck leaves as I see the need.
Most smaller leaves are left on the plant, but still thinned out. About 2 weeks into bloom I stop defoliating and leave it alone unless I get sickly leaves then I pluck them.

I am always cognitive on how I am pulling the leaves and how they will grow afterwards. So in a sense, I am training the plants to grow a certain way and to my liking to receive the most light penetration throughout it's structure.

No real science behind my technique, but it works for me.

 

[tokatronic]

<snip>tipp the plant at the highest possible vistible node space, weather single stem set-up, or a multi-limbed plant, at 3-5 days of flower initiation. This creates a plant with multiple tops on a single stem, rather than 2 tops with 2-stems giving you more top bud in the area of light penetration in a smaller space. When topped at the highest possible point, it has not altered the stretch but re-directs it to the bud sites that all develop the same size as top colas. <snip>

How does this affect the stretch of the plant? Will it be much shorter?

How does this technique work together with the defoliation described by the OP?

 

[Struckanerve]

With my last grow that i just finished, i decided to try defoliation. My method was i would cut leaves off once a week the first 5 weeks of flower. It turned out pretty good. I dont have any room to do a side by side comparison i wish i did! here are some pictures.

3rd week trim

4th week trim

5th week (last trim)

Right before harvest

 

[justwatchin]

I prune in late flowering to help speed the curing process. It does improve smoke quality when done in late flowering. I've found an article by DJ-short explaining why this happens. Side by side after side by side, I've found it better to leave the fan leaves on in early flowering and tipp the plant at the highest possible vistible node space, weather single stem set-up, or a multi-limbed plant, at 3-5 days of flower initiation. This creates a plant with multiple tops on a single stem, rather than 2 tops with 2-stems giving you more top bud in the area of light penetration in a smaller space. When topped at the highest possible point, it has not altered the stretch but re-directs it to the bud sites that all develop the same size as top colas. When done on day 1 the specimens were too spaced out and laterals developed too much like rgular topping, but you must do it during the stretch or it proves to be counter productive. Strains I have done this on so far and noted increase in yield are Bangi-Haze, SSH-shanti, Happybrother Bx1, Oger99, White berry-Paradise, and Angel Breath. It accomplishes the same task that defoliating is attempting to do, that is put more bud in the area of highest light concentration. Especially useful in high density, perpetual, HID gardens. The HB bx1 developed more similar to being tipped in vegg, but with bud sites closer to main stem.

Also if you wish to have a multi- limmed clone that develops quite naturally with speed, put your mother 1wk into onset then take cuts. Allot quicker than hacking off all the leaves. With allot more busites.

Another technique I employ that has dramatically improved my yields in my HID garden especially.
" When applying to young seedlings or cuttings, allow them to reach approximately 20-25cm before first treatment. In the case of multiple single stem setups, this would coincide with onset inducement for Indica-dominant strains. However, for Sativa-dominant strains having onset induced at 15-20cm, this is the only time this should be initiated this early.

The procedure, due to soft stems, involves a gentle squeeze between thumb and index finger before a crack is heard or felt, or the stem softens,but avoid compressing the stem altogether. Correctly treated the plant can either remain upright or sag over when the procedure is finished. If cuttings sag over, no problem as they will return to vertical position over a few days to one week, while reinforcement of the stem takes place. For treatment to large established plants, the procedure changes and even the secondaries can be mature enough to require more work than a squeeze can achieve. Take the lateral or secondary and gently roll the stem between your index finger and thumb, adding a slight amount of pressure. After rolling the stem several times, it will soften but the surface will not break. Roll until the head rotates three quarters of a full turn, then gently back the other way. Start low down the stem, avoid crushing, and if the nodal sites are too close start further up. If the plant is young it is easy to rotate the stem too far and the head snaps clean off, but it doesn't take long to get the technique right. Up the main stem apply treatment at equal distances, approximately 2cm. The stems can sag over as if they've been denied water. After 24-72 hours they should be vertical again and then the plant will focus on repairing the damage internally and reinforcing the damaged area to ensure this injury does not reoccur. This will halt the plants growth for 3-7 days depending on the thoroughness of the treatment.

The technique changes on the second treatment as the plant has matured and the stem has thickened from the first treatment. This time a better grip is required and a bit more grunt. Taking mature plant in a firm grip between index finger and thumb, using both ands turn gently in opposite directions until a chiropractic crack can be heard or felt between fingers; if you hear that sound, you've successfully damaged the inner hurd without damaging the outer stem. If there is no crack but the stem has been rotated, the process is still successful as the hurd cannot remain intact when opposing forces are applied to the stems. Depending on the strain and maturity of the plant there maybe some work for a thorough job.

Take your time and be fully focused on you job or accidents will happen. It is best to remove the plant from the crop to work on comfortably. The end result is larger stems, allowing the plant to absorb greater volumes of water more quickly than with standard stems, and this is reflected in substantial increase in yields.

It does not take long to familiarize yourself with this technique and the results can be astounding. Do not do this more than three times, and allow for good recovery before each treatment; try not to go back over areas already treated, always treat new growth only. First treatment should be approximately 25-30cm and the last at the inducement of onset. Do not apply later than the start of the second wk of onset as this may delay budding." ~Albie
Happy growing

Here is some pics of day 1 vs day 5 in the micro
This is MUCH more dramatic in my hps setup!! You get multiple heads and secondaries become the size of top buds and solid. At day 5 you can get sog closer too because of tighter structure increasing your yield in two ways. And yield more with a more productive plant structure in a shorter time than defoliating in veg that works with plant instead of against it. It is consistent with all my strains.

These have been defoliated to show you plant structure, but have not had the supercrop technique done or it would be more compact but I use stretch in this particular set-up. This is in my experimental perpetual SOG box and its packed in there at 16 per square ft. I do defoliate but later in flowering. These are at day 29 in the pics

Sorry for the large pics, I have no idea how to re-size these, and the quality I still have not purchased a decent camera.

The tipping technique does not affect stretch but increases yeild. The super-cropping technique affects vertical but increases yeild. The tipping technique gets more budsites in penetrative light zone therefore increasing yield with consistency. it relates to the op of the thread b/c that was the whole point of defoli, increasing yield by producing plant structure that allows more penetration in a shorter space increasing your yield. He used it to change plant structure and so do I but allot more consistent results across the board of strains I have, which is allot. He uses it to control stretch I like to let stretch work for me by controlling start height and root space (same consistent results every time=better planning).

EDIT: Oh..I say tipping not topping bc its so close to the top. Where you would F.I.M., it would be DIRECTLY under that compact leaf set. Bend the little leaves back and snip that little head off careful not to cut bud sites.

 

[61-50-7]

The point with defoliating is it creates a compact plant. If I were not trying to fit a 10oz finished plant into 32" cubed I could leave the leaves but with leaves left on this plant will be far too large for that alotted space. So yes the yield may come out the same but the leafy plant will end up twice the size of the defoliated one. Therefore indoors with limited space you can produce more weight per square foot on smaller plants by defoliation. I'm using whatever possible for "growth control" I'd rather call it taming.

What if the constraint is light wattage rather than square ft? Apologize if this questions been answered, its a long thread

E.g. would this technique benefit vertical tree growing in a room with plenty of space and headroom? Perhaps the plants not sandwiched between vertical 1000k lamps but rather those on the edges?

Basically the plants in the corners with light hitting them from one side, the far side of the plant is just the equivalent of the bottom under a horizontal lamp? So opening the plant up would allow more light to penetrate all the way through.

But then again, if the plant is 3 ft wide and 4-5 ft tall the opposite side is a ways away from the lamp anyway although they are rotated weekly.

Great thread, it goes against everything I've heard about growing but the the proof is in those pictures!

 

[El Toker]

Another new member quoting the word of keefter. Give it up, with all the sock puppet accounts dude.

Great thread, it goes against everything I've heard about growing but the the proof is in those pictures!

puleeeeeeeees

 

[justwatchin]

Umm.... I've never even thought of that till you mentioned it, but that posting is not me El Toker I'm not new. I got banned for saying one of the breeders pics had the white balance adjusted because of purple polly backdrop with purple plants. I did not post that often and they thought I used the account for trolling so I decided to be more active and avoid neg comments or ppl.

 

[justwatchin]

Or are you implying that all the new members here are me? It takes allot of effort to post info guy. And wherever I I'm wrong I post that too. I have no puppet accounts. Just trying to share info. I am not a believer in kf's technique and I think the guy above is referring to kf's pics not mines.

 

[conehead]

defolite yes or no? maybe both!

defolite yes or no? maybe both!

It all depends on the type of grow,watts used & space availaable. If you have the space to spread out your plants I suggest you leave the leaves alone. On the other hand if you have a small or crammed grow, then it is a must to defoliate congested area's of foliage to allow light to get to the bottom buds & also allows for better air circulation.


Cheeky check out them there apples!

 

[conehead]

Merry Xmas

Merry Xmas

Old coney loves a bong, Oh yeH!. merry Xmas to all my fellow tokers. Hope that red nosed fat old man brings me a big bag of bud for Xmas.

 

[Marquis de Sod]

merry crimmas!

anybody had a similar experience to me? i DF'd alot of my plants. i also did not DF some.
then i fed HIGH AMOUNTS OF BUDDING NUTES to my plants because i was pissed they were just making popcorn, even on tops of branches.
so what happened is MOST the plants i earlier DF'd after a month of straight nutes, got sick and most died, while most of the plants i left alone, survived, as in lasted longer than the others without dieing, so that i had a chance to save them by just giving them straight water.
anybody else experience this??? it is like the fan leaves absorbed enuf of the extra nutes to keep the buds from turning brown. it is amazing to me. unfortunately, i df'd most of my plants a month ago.


NOW FOR A COMPLETELY UNRELATED QUESTION!!!
maybe not if you call TOPPING defoliation!!! my local nute store guy told me he cuts the top off every plant THE SAME DAY HE PUTS IT INTO BLOOM! anybody else do this??
he also sayed to strip the bottom third of the plant at two weeks in, and strip the other bottom third at four weeks, just leaving the top third, i guess this is lollypopping, and NOT DF'ing, but i would still like to know. Please dont get bent out of shape keefer. thx

 

[Greensub]

merry crimmas!

anybody had a similar experience to me? i DF'd alot of my plants. i also did not DF some.
then i fed HIGH AMOUNTS OF BUDDING NUTES to my plants because i was pissed they were just making popcorn, even on tops of branches.
so what happened is MOST the plants i earlier DF'd after a month of straight nutes, got sick and most died, while most of the plants i left alone, survived, as in lasted longer than the others without dieing, so that i had a chance to save them by just giving them straight water.
anybody else experience this??? it is like the fan leaves absorbed enuf of the extra nutes to keep the buds from turning brown. it is amazing to me. unfortunately, i df'd most of my plants a month ago.

It was noted in the thread that DF'd plants have a reduced nutrient uptake... When did you start your defoliation process? I hope it wasn't at the light change or during stretch, that would cause what your describing I think. General consensus was to wait 20-21 days into flowering to defoliate while in the blooming cycle. Although it was strongly advised to only DF in bloom, if and only if you started in veg. Some did it only at the 21 & 41 day mark of flowering with mixed success (probably dependent on plant structure).

NOW FOR A COMPLETELY UNRELATED QUESTION!!!
maybe not if you call TOPPING defoliation!!! my local nute store guy told me he cuts the top off every plant THE SAME DAY HE PUTS IT INTO BLOOM! anybody else do this??
he also sayed to strip the bottom third of the plant at two weeks in, and strip the other bottom third at four weeks, just leaving the top third, i guess this is lollypopping, and NOT DF'ing, but i would still like to know. Please dont get bent out of shape keefer. thx

sounds like lolly-popping to me... but I'm not an expert on it, sounds kind of drastic to me.

 

[Marquis de Sod]

i DF'd at 21 days. they seemed to really like it. they did NOT like df'ing at start of bloom at all. indica.
i also df'd during veg with all these. i have posts back in the body of the thread @ the time i df'd. around Dec. 7th. most of the younger ones seemed okay as well. older plants, not so good. they were in bloom longer than the others, but they were df'd at week three as well, the first time in bloom. so bottom line, feed less when you df. might not show it at first. but in the end they will. at least when you pour it to them. i really shot them up with lots of different stuff. i dont think this shante devi likes df'ing at all in bloom. i cant see where it hurt in veg. other than taking longer to get the height i wanted.

 

[huntingbb]

well, ive some girls lined up for a couple rounds worth, and ive a set that's gonna get about 4 months veg time - these HAVE to be defoliated if they will all still fit...

 

[Marquis de Sod]

you know, if i had not had ten or so older DFd plants in my crop, i would have killed every plant i have. over half my youngins were DFd too, but i guess weren't over-dosed long enuf to get killed.
so i think everybody out there who plans on nuking their plants should have at least ONE DFd plant, just to tell them that when it dies, to STOP over-ferting their herd ... A GREAT Early-Warning Device! esp for people that don't know what they are doing, like me.