Day 24 of flowering and yellowing leaves

[tiktok420]

Day 24 of flowering one Nirvana White Widow and one AK. Using Fox Farm Ocean Forest in 1.5 gallon pots along with Fox Farm Tiger Bloom and Fox Farm Grow Big. Feeding half strength once a week per Fox Farms suggested schedule. Watering once every 5-7 days (when pots are light). Plants do not seem root bound, hardly any roots poking through the drain holes. Using a 250watt HPS about 8-10 inches from the tops. Temps are 65deg night and 75deg daytime. I have tried foliar feeding at half strength using Fox Farm Grow Big twice now and seemed to have helped slow the yellowing a little for a day or two. I am now using 1/4th tspn of epsom salts every watering, I have given these plants a couple of teaspoons through out their lives. PH runoff is 6.5. I have flushed twice since flowering. I skipped one feeding out of the 4 that I have given them since flowering.

I am getting some really bad yellowing of the lower leafs now. It has progressively gotten worse the last couple of days and I am afraid these plants are not going to make it for another 3 weeks. The top of the plant looks ok and there are parts of the plants where it is really green mostly the top colas. All new leaf growth on the colas is green so I am not so sure its a nitrogen deficiency. I could really use some advise!!!!

Thanks,
tiktok

 

[tiktok420]

Let me first say thank you for taking the time to give your advise : )

So do you think its a nitrogen deficiency then?

>Are you feeding?, or, are you flushing? says you flushed twice.....
The second week I flushed with 3x the pot size and then also added 1/2 strength ferts. I was was basically flushing to get rid of any salt build up.

I transplanted these plants in these pots about 1 week before I switched to 12/12 schedule. So they have been in these pots for about 31 days.

My next watering schedule is in 5 days I watered 2 days ago. Should I go ahead and water them now and give them some more ferts? If so then what should I give them, both the Fox Farm Grow Big and the Fox Farm Tiger Bloom, and how much?

Thanks again!!

 

[tiktok420]

Thank you sir. I will wait before doing anything and hopefully someone else will give their opinion.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Yeah, defintely up the nute levels to about 3/4 strength if you're using products like Liquid Karma or other enhancers. If you're not using them, then take the nutes up a little more...also you might wanna consider adding Big Bloom and ditch the Grow Big for flowering or you'll start seeing P, K or Mag defs unless you give them full strength Tiger bloom...the problem with that is that full strength TB often leads to N tox as well as it being very acidic which can lead to lockouts from PH issues.

 

[Verite]

When you switched from veg to flower did you switch to a flower fert right away? Im with NYG and it looks like they got N starved for the first couple of weeks of flowering. I usually give them a 2/3 veg to 1/3 flower fert the first 7-10 days and a 2/3 flower to 1/3 veg the next 7-10 days to fight off that rapid N depletion that happens those first few weeks of flower. Boosting N later in flower can mess with bud growth so be careful about using too much N this late. It will save some of the younger leaves but some of those older fans probably wont recover well enough to survive going full yellow and dead. I use Tiger Bloom predominantly in flower and it should be doing a better job at keeping them green so Im assuming they arent being fed enough.

 

[10k]

I agree with the general consensus here, they look and sound like they're dropping a few big fans a week or two too early. But I wouldnt take any drastic N measures at this point in time.

imho, you're best off not freaking about the big fan leaves, and concentrate on blasting out buds thru the finish running just the tiger bloom until they're done, and bump up the strength as verite & nyg suggested.

The yellowing off will continue as the plants take whatever N they'll need from the oldest foliage by translocation. After all is said and done, this yellowing off is part of the natural end of life cycle in our beloved herb.
Too late to f'k with mother nature imho

 

[10k]

woe....
jj scorpio brings up an interesting viewpoint worth considering on this.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=44501

You might want to consider a fresh jug of that tiger bloom or go with pbp bloom instead.

 

[sproutco]

Try 240 ppm magnesium

Try 240 ppm magnesium

Sometimes 1/4 teaspoon epsom salts (about 30ppm magnesium) is not enough to prevent magnesium deficiency especially if the plants have not been receiving this constantly over a long period of time. 1 teaspoon per gallon grow big, for example, only contains 8 ppm magnesium. You might consider 2 teaspoons per gallon epsom salts once.

Once a mg deficiency occurs, it is very difficult to correct, particularly if the deficiency occurs in the mid point in the growing season. In those plant species that have a high mg requirement, the deficiency may be triggered by various environmental and physiological stress [like flowering]...An interesting side effect of mg deficiency is the possible increase in susceptibility to fungus disease.

 

[Guest]

I agree with NY general, Verite and 10k.....just make sure you pull off any dead leafs...stay safe and best of luck

 

[B.C.]

Hello

Hello

I noticed yer growin in 1.5 gallon pots and watering every 5-7 days ? are ya sure their not gettin too dry inbetween waterings? BC

 

[B.C.]

I may be way off base here, but I think it's worth mentioning

I may be way off base here, but I think it's worth mentioning

Let me first say thank you for taking the time to give your advise : )

So do you think its a nitrogen deficiency then?

>Are you feeding?, or, are you flushing? says you flushed twice.....
The second week I flushed with 3x the pot size and then also added 1/2 strength ferts. I was was basically flushing to get rid of any salt build up.

I transplanted these plants in these pots about 1 week before I switched to 12/12 schedule. So they have been in these pots for about 31 days.

My next watering schedule is in 5 days I watered 2 days ago. Should I go ahead and water them now and give them some more ferts? If so then what should I give them, both the Fox Farm Grow Big and the Fox Farm Tiger Bloom, and how much?

Thanks again!!

It looks to me like you've done yer home work and have did everything up to now in textbook style.I jus wanted to point out your watering schedule.I'm not sure if yer aware of it or not but when a plant starts budding it's water consumption really kicks in,it is their transperation(sp?) cycle.They suck water up through the roots and "transpire" it out the stomata pours on the leaves. You'll know when the cycle is over when they stop taking so much water.During this cycle is the time ta feed the most and when it slows down it's time ta flush and give only water after that.Bottom line,it seems like yer plants should be useing more water than a watering once every 7 days in that small ofa pot,I can't say fersure cause I've never grown witha 250 watt light? Btw If ya have a chance pick up some age old organics bloom 5-10-5 this stuff rocks in FF-OF! I gave up the Tiger Bloom,I really dig the big bloom though.I don't know if this is yer problem or not but it dosen't hurt to know this anyway.(insert> Benny Hill double blink-blink and salute) lol Good luck and take care...BC

 

[Guest]

^^^^good point.....here some of my Kodiak Gold at 40 days in hydro...

best of luck

 

[tiktok420]

Awesome Awesome Awesome I feel a lot better now that you guys have told me what the problem is. I will water with full strength Tiger Bloom in a day or two. Geeeze these plants sure get hungry during flowering don't they? Sorry I didn't get back to you guys last night but it was getting pretty late and I just now got off work.

NY General,
Just wanted to thank you again for your expertise, sounds like you are right on the money : )

MTF-Sandman,
I was just following the fox farm feeding schedule per their website. Thanks.

Verite,
>When you switched from veg to flower did you switch to a flower fert right away?
Yes infact I switched that same day. I guess I should have given more nitrogen like you said during the first two weeks of flower since this is the big stretch. This is really my first grow so I had not idea. Should I still use the Grow big or not? Thanks

10k,
Sounds like a very good plan. I just bought my tiger bloom when I started flowering these plants.

sproutco,
I know I have I heard the name sproutco before! I think it was in the tabloids or something, no wait oh yes it was on icmag : )
Your opinion is always taken with the upmost respect. I guess the worst I can do if I give them too much epsom salts is lock out the calcium so I will give them 1 more good dose per your suggestion. Thanks

hurricanefaniam,
Thanks for your opinion sir and nice plants : )

BC,
>I noticed yer growin in 1.5 gallon pots and watering every 5-7 days ?
>are ya sure their not gettin too dry inbetween waterings?
I am very sure. I added 25%-30% perlite to the soil. It seems odd that it takes an entire 7 days for the soil to dry out doesn't it. Thanks for your kindness and input : )

 

[Guest]

^^^^^^great advice

 

[Duppy]

Sproutco mentioned magnesium, you might also want to look at calcium.

I had a very similar looking problem that I always thought was N deficiency, so much that I kept the N levels up for a full six weeks into flower. Even then, the fan leaves would yellow way too quick while the buds stayed nice and green, just like you described. I was already adding epsom salts, then I started adding a little gypsum for calcium.

All of my plants improved markedly, but what I didn't expect was that the N-deficient strain (Skunk #1) no longer seems to need the extra nitrogen to stay green. At the very least, it has cut the need for extra N to maybe the first week or two.

 

[B.C.]

BC,
>I noticed yer growin in 1.5 gallon pots and watering every 5-7 days ?
>are ya sure their not gettin too dry inbetween waterings?
I am very sure. I added 25%-30% perlite to the soil. It seems odd that it takes an entire 7 days for the soil to dry out doesn't it. Thanks for your kindness and input : )

I'm not tryin ta be a dickhead,I don't know how else ta say it,but you do know that perlite is going ta make it dry out even faster right ? It's jus hard for me to beleive that these plants are def. in anything.Tiger bloom (2-8-4) even at half strength is plenty ta keep them from doing this,not to mention grow big,fuck man grow big is pretty strong if it was a N def.it would have taken care of it. And btw stop useing grow big in flower,it will retard the flower process and make yer bud leafy.When plants stretch they need extra K or potassium not N.I'm not saying cut N out all together but way back.I've used fox farms for many years now and I know what it's capable of I guess that's why I think it's a water problem,sorry TikTok I'm not tryin ta knock your growin skills.I mix my FF-OF the same way you do and I have ta water 2-3 times a week.Back when I used a light mover and co2 I would run my temps up to 85-90 degrees this made it real hard ta keep up with watering during the transpiration(sp) cycle.I had ta set up a pump,manifold and irragation lines.With a soil mix like we're useing these plants were watered for 1 min.3x a day at the peak of the cycle.Now I'm rambeling,sorry.Just don't be afraid of over watering,with 30% perlite in the mix helpin drainage and trappin air you can't over water,as long as ya have enough drain holes the extra water runs right through.And to any nay sayers that think I'm full of shit,under water jus one of yer plants fer awhile and see if it doesn't start eating itself up from the bottom up,the last place ta stay green will be where the seeds are supposed to be...BOY,I really feel like the Black Sheep of the family now.I felt like it needed to said though.ONE LOVE ! Take care...BC

 

[tiktok420]

B.C.,

I appreciate your honesty thats what I am looking for, the truth. Last night I watered them with 4 tspns of tiger bloom and 2 tspns of epsom salts so we will see if they burn or not. Even though I disagree about your under watering statement (see the next paragraph) I will start watering every 3 days. May I ask how often and how much do you think I should feed my plants?

During veg I would water once every 3 days and then once every other day when the plants started to get root bound. I might agree with you about under watering being my problem if it were not for the weight and finger test factor. I usually check my plants about 3 days after watering to see if they need more by lifting the pots and checking the weight and then putting my finger down into the dirt to the second knuckle on my finger. At 3 days the pot is still really heavy and the dirt is wet not just cold feeling but wet. usually another 3 days later and the pots are some what light and the finger test gives me more of a damp feeling. If I wait until the 7th day then the pots are really light the soil is dry. So I usually try and water every 6th day.

>you do know that perlite is going ta make it dry out even faster right ?
Yep : ) during veg I also ran 25%-30% perlite in my mix.

>grow big,fuck man grow big is pretty strong
tell me about it, during veg I fed 1/2 tspn every watering for week 2 and 3 and the last 2 weeks I fed 1 tspn every watering. I love this stuff.

>And btw stop useing grow big in flower
Will do

>sorry TikTok I'm not tryin ta knock your growin skills
I don't have any growing skills to knock : )

 

[tiktok420]

NY General,
>Has their been any visable improvement? (been 2 days now, right?)
No I fed last night sorry. When the light come on tonight I will report back. I will also start watering every 3 days per yours and B.C.'s advised. Just still unsure how much to feed with the tiger bloom and now often, maybe B.C. will give me some advise.

Thanks

 

[sproutco]

... thats what I am looking for, the truth. Last night I watered them with 4 tspns of tiger bloom and 2 tspns of epsom salts so we will see if they burn or not.

They won't burn. 4 teaspoons per gallon of water tiger bloom gives you about this:

104 n
184 p
176 k

Nitrogen is good at 100 ppm. This keeps foliage green. Nothing wrong with 176 potassium (k) either. But, 184 phosphorus (p) is crazy. 30-50 is about normal in hydro. There is 100 in the lucas formula. You may find it beneficial to use 13-0-44 potassium nitrate every 3rd or 4th fert watering instead of the tiger bloom. This gives your soil a break from applying so much p. This is all nitrate nitrogen which plants love. 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water. 95 ppm nitrogen is just enough to keep foliage green and the plant blooming. This is the ingredient in some stump removers at hardware stores like lowes or home depot. Dexol, greenlight, grants, and spectricide are some brands but there could be others. Just check the label.



I felt you needed the boost of magnesium using 240 ppm. This was alot. From now on use 1/4 teaspoon of both powdered gypsum and epsom salts per gallon of water along with the tiger bloom. Do this about every third fert or every fert if mag or calcium def symptoms occur. This provides a low 30 ppm magnesium and 60 ppm calcium. Having both together keeps a balance.

As always, adjust your fert water ph after adding everything to about 6. Things you migh use to do this are in my signature "how to make your own ph up and down".

Apply ferts with every watering. This is called constant liquid feed or clf. Be sure you get 20% of what you apply to come out the drain holes. You want runoff.

 

[Verite]

... I felt you needed the boost of magnesium using 240 ppm...

Again, what you 'feel' and what you actually know are two diff things entirely. I just looked at a bottle of Tiger Bloom and it contains 0.5% magnesium which is plenty at any ferted strength. Throwing on those two extra teaspoons of epsom was complete overkill.

I would also think twice about sproutco's advice on ferting with stump remover(?) or any other fert that high in nitrogen during flowering as that much N is certainly going to effect bud growth.