(Dark) green leaves at harvest time?! Come on guys, stop overfeeding & flush fully

[ixnay007]

here we go again, let's try to keep this thread about flushing and not about endless ranting between hydro and soil growers.

personally it's hard for me to swallow that you don't need to flush at all, with organics? even though the herb smells and burns fine always, i still get pretty bad coughing from poorly flushed organics, and that's got to be the worst part of smoking.

Probably not poorly flushed, since it's not possible to flush organics like you can with hydro..

More likely a case of them either cutting early, or having too much available nutrients at the end of flowering.

Probably there's a need for a word for what you do with organics.. dumping tons of water in the soil won't change much, using plain water when you use liquid ferts will help, as will doing a proper estimation of how long your plants will flower and using the proper amount of dry ferts.

 

[floppyfundanglr]

Ive had plants that have yellowed and were fine. When i started growing organic i gotta plant that was sativa dominant in bud and leaf structure and was happy and green all throughout the process. I flushed for a couple weeks and couldnt get a sign of yellow. I may have harvested early but it looked ready. I even tried to girdle the plant and cut a good quarter away from the trunk. Bottem line though taste was fantastic not chemy at all and burned to a white gray ash that would nearly fall out of the bowl. Nothing to fight about. haha

peace

 

[Whatever]

here we go again, let's try to keep this thread about flushing and not about endless ranting between hydro and soil growers.

The discussion is still on topic IMO and don't see any ranting. Sometimes you need to expand the discussion a bit.

so why you would go from AN to organics

I went from GH to AN (salts) as I was told I would be happier with the results and I was. I went from AN to organics for the same reason with the same result except yield dropped off but is coming back up some. Most of my garden was the same strain for two years so could easily see the difference between the different grow styles and flushing/no flushing and the length of flush. For starters I think there's a varying opinion of what flushing means to the grower. I see some people almost pound their plants with nutes then flush like crazy...lol. If you time your nute additions properly, and strength of additions, the nutes will pretty much be used up by the time you harvest. With something like DWC/NFT/Aero it's a bit different cause there is no medium to hold nutes if you're changing the res/solution regularly so nute addition stops later in the cycle. When I ran in rockwool or coco I'd just stop adding nutes at a point then just do regular res changes or use plain water in the pots. I never used something like Clearex or 'forced' clean water through.

and if a plant cant absorb bat guano then why would it even be in soil or fertilizers?

The bacteria and fungi break down the amendments and actually feed the plant. Amendments like guano can not be directly taken up by the plant.

As for layers, spikes and stuff like that I thought about it a bit more and it's like when a dog takes a dump on the grass. Directly underneath the pile the grass gets burnt but right on the periphery the grass goes bonkers. Roots will not dive into a concentrated zone of nutes, as in a pot, but instead find a safe distance and feed. There is a very high level of microbial activity in this area just as there is around things like oyster shell particles due to pH in this case...kind of like little microspheres of life. The plants still don't get overloaded in this case (layers/spikes) but can if you feed globally from the top.

I also think some people's idea of what organics is differs from mine. There's products like PBP that's even labeled organic but I don't think it is. I'm not saying hydro is shit cause that's not my experience. Most of the hydro I grew was significantly better than just about anybodies 'organic' weed I tried but most of the hydro weed I've tried was poorly done with some not being smokable...and I've had 'organic' weed I thought was crap.

My experience with the way I grow is a 'flush' is not critical. My goal is better timing of nute additions and strength of additions and the use of bacterial teas and things like molasses to drive the bacteria to chew up anything that may be left.

Nothing more for me to add.

 

[LatinThug]

well....putting my 2 cents in.

the first post is very misleading.......brown=dont feed, yellow=feed. this is dumbed down info that can lead some people to problems.
secondly, ive looked at tystiks pic and i cant see the colors at all....maybe if he took a closer pic i could make out if its yellow or a darker fall color(the lighting sucks too).
second and a halfly, are you ty stik, because you seem to love his poorly lit pics and mention for everyone to be like ty stik in almost every post in this thread.
thirdly.....you dont grow and your telling growers what is best for them........
fourthly.....there arent as many pics on here as there was on OG, period. and who can blame the masses......times have changed

anyway.....flushing is important, each plant responds differently, use YOUR own best judgement.....plants respond differently to the same thing???!?!?!







end of story, thread should be closed, icmag should be shutdown, the internet should be turned off, and congress should rip down the border, and the world should end......goodbye

 

[HAPPYTREE]

end of story, thread should be closed, icmag should be shutdown, the internet should be turned off, and congress should rip down the border, and the world should end......goodbye

ALL BECAUSE OF A FLUSH OR LACK THERE OF ....lOL
HT

 

[ixnay007]

Flush icmag?

 

[HashishinReidi]

Latinthug,bb ie Britishbulldog, is not ty stick that i know for a fact .Being as i have had the pleasure to know bb, for quite along time now .

As you have said there is a reason, alot of ex ogers do not post pics anymore .BB has said, the reason why he does not .

Just becouse he does not grow at the moment ,that does not mean he does not know what he is talking about belive you me .

Back in the days when og was here, i had the pleasure of seeing many of his past grows .With 2 of the best strains, in my book.All i am saying the is 'the proof of the pudding .And i have seen it, and toked it in the past.

And yes as you have said, it is different, with each strain just as alot of strains like different feeds alot also need different flushes .ie some hold nutes in better than others ,and need a longer flush.

 

[zoolander]

A few more of my shitty flushed grows LOL

 

[EddieShoestring]

ICMag bro's and sisters-the flushing debate regularly flares on ganja boards-

youknow how it goes-the flushers tell the rest their weed is shit and the non-flushers say 'you can't tell the diff'-

i'm not sure that it is wise to generalize about flushing-eg organic compost is v different to pure water hydro -and the same nute regieme (sp?) may not apply across the board.

Plants DO take up nutes in the final weeks of flower-albeit at a reduced rate-any hydro grower can check this-

having said that GPashas input about long flushes and enhanced smell has got my interest-would that be a stress reaction?

flushed or not i'm loving CFranks and Zoolanders budz

peace and unity in the herb community

eddieS

 

[British_Bulldog]

the first post is very misleading.......brown=dont feed, yellow=feed. this is dumbed down info that can lead some people to problems.
secondly, ive looked at tystiks pic and i cant see the colors at all....maybe if he took a closer pic i could make out if its yellow or a darker fall color(the lighting sucks too).
second and a halfly, are you ty stik, because you seem to love his poorly lit pics and mention for everyone to be like ty stik in almost every post in this thread.
thirdly.....you dont grow and your telling growers what is best for them........
fourthly.....there arent as many pics on here as there was on OG, period. and who can blame the masses......times have changed

Ok, let's clear a few things up:

1) Yes the idea was simplified, and assumed people know the difference between a deficiency and over/underfeeding and underflushing. You mostly have experience, so you should be able to tell this.

2) Ty-Stik's pic is great - it perfectly illustrates a superb finish. There are no colours, just yellowing and dying off, because his night temps weren't low enough to cause colouring, and that's fine - colouring is not the important thing.

2.5) (lol) No, I'm not Ty-Stik, nor had I ever heard of him before he dropped by this thread

3) I don't grow right now, but I have grown a LOT of plants in England, and have many, many years experience, as well as having taken careful learning experiences from the old masters on OG.

4) I'm not talking about the amount of pics or growers here. What I mean is there were some true masters on OG with extremely high standards. There are good growers here, but very few masters - something which can be changed with open minds and a willingness to learn.

Latinthug,bb ie Britishbulldog, is not ty stick that i know for a fact .Being as i have had the pleasure to know bb, for quite along time now .

As you have said there is a reason, alot of ex ogers do not post pics anymore .BB has said, the reason why he does not .

Just becouse he does not grow at the moment ,that does not mean he does not know what he is talking about belive you me .

Back in the days when og was here, i had the pleasure of seeing many of his past grows .With 2 of the best strains, in my book.All i am saying the is 'the proof of the pudding .And i have seen it, and toked it in the past.

And yes as you have said, it is different, with each strain just as alot of strains like different feeds alot also need different flushes .ie some hold nutes in better than others ,and need a longer flush.

Now, thanks H_R m8, that's appreciated, however I also need to make this point:

Back then I was using strains I had dialled in and in NFT, which is my forte'.

However, I have also grown in rockwool in pots, relatively new plants, not dialled plants in and produced plants which smoked ok, but weren't up to my standards, and were overfed and I couldn't get the ferts out, despite a 2 week flush and also tried using a clearing solution.

I know I can do better than that, but it was a lack of attention to feeding due to a hectic lifestyle and not enough time to devote to the plants - there were a lot of them and I was working full time elsewhere too....talk about chaos! Growing commercially's much easier when it's your full time job, lol

During this time, I also did NFT and those plants came out better, with the leaves yellowing and dying off as they should. This was because I was able to get the feeding and flushing balance better due to experience.

However, that's all it was, good experience, I didn't learn any of those seed plants, as they were just to heavily populate a house with no time to grow mother plants, and were only for 1 run.

With the ripped up rockwool, the other problem was I was going away on holiday for upto 2 weeks at a time, loading the plants up with food for this period, and the medium was just holding too much of the food, which I found very difficult to iron out later.

The other problem was trying a product called GH Ripen, which also contains food, and although it's a product to use at the end of the grow, it was not liked by people who took the product from me, so I stopped using it.

Despite these factors, it does not mean to say I don't know how to dial plants in, given enough time and opportunity with them.

In the past, I have grown many crops of perfectly fed and flushed plants, in hydro too, and soil growers were amazed at the clean taste of the smoke.


HashishinReidi - you've tried some reasonable smoke, especially the seed plants done in NFT like the purple plant that was good (ICE), and they smoked quite well, but you've never smoked my best, and I'm sorry you didn't man - I wish you'd smoked some back in the day when I had those strains really dialled in, but more recently, I've been throwing loads of new plants together, trying and experimenting with different strains, and never got anything dialled in properly.


What I wanted to do in starting this thread is express to people that there is room for improvement, just as there was with my rockwool grows, but by realising that a better result is possible, then surely it's worth aiming for that.

I knew I'd take a lot of flak for starting this thread, but I'd rather suffer that than keep on seeing overfed and/or underflushed plants, with people thinking "everything's ok".

An important point is this: it's almost impossible to dial a plant in unless you spend time with it, and unless you want to keep it for a long time, it's never gonna happen, unless with luck, which is rare.

However, if you want to keep a special plant around, it's worth learning her, and getting the best of her.


Peace

 

[B.C.]

Plants DO take up nutes in the final weeks of flower-albeit at a reduced rate-any hydro grower can check this-

having said that GPashas input about long flushes and enhanced smell has got my interest-would that be a stress reaction?



eddieS

No one said they wouldn't take up nutes in the end, but the whole idea is to stop the nutes and flush, right. About the stress thing. A long flush would mean yer catchin the end of the transpiration cycle ( yes, I said it again ! ). When the plant is still feeding, transpiring and growin at an accellerated rate and you suddenly take it's food, giving it only water, you bet there's gonna be some stress. It's obvious by the leaves turnin yellow. This very well could enhance smells and flavors tho, it does in cullinary herbs. But I think at this point, in all fairness, it would be subjective to ones own opinion. If it makes you happy, that's all that matters ! ...... Ya know, I keep harpen about this transpiration thing because I want folks ta know how important it is, and to understand how this plant works. You cant force a plant ta eat, all you can do is feed it when it will take it. The transpiration cycle is that time. Yer whole feeding plan should be based around this cycle!!! When you do, flushing or having no oganic matter left ta feed the soil critters ( no flush ) at the end is a breeze. Btw, This is also the period when Co2 will pull ya that extra 30% in yeild, because the stomata is open at their fullest at this point, allowing more Co2 ta be absorbed ( when the temps are raised ). The Co2 speeds up the traspiration rate even more and they REALLY go through nutes/water then. Well anyhoo, I hope my efforts ta make folks understand this has helped, and you can use ta yer advantage. Take care... BC

 

[zoolander]

I will say BB that as you pointed out about growing to many strains and not getting them all dialed in. This is one problem I have, the last pix I posted I ran that Bluedancer and Bluesteel a couple times and had those down but runnin 10 strains at once gives me a bit of a rough time and I hope soon to get one that I love and only concentrate on it period. I wish I saved that Bluedancer but maybe I can find it in the last of those beans

 

[British_Bulldog]

Hi zoolander, as I've just said in my edit above, regarding an important point about keeping special plants around, it's almost impossible without a huge amount of experience and a lot of luck to dial a new plant straight away. It takes time and several cycles to get to know her properly.

With some well-shared clones, i.e. elites especially, there's enough info. around to dial them in fast, but going from seed is much more difficult.

I can also appreciate and see you didn't dial those particular plants in, zoolander, and if you pay attention to them, I am sure you'll improve in learning them every time.

I'm not saying people are bad growers if they can't dial in straight away, that's normal, but the point is keeping a special plant around for a longer period and not learning her feeding and flushing requirements, to get the best out of her, is a great shame and the grower is missing out.


Peace

 

[zoolander]

I now will say that I think you are half crazy because I saw Ty sticks plants that you worship and can tell you that those pix of that Bluedancer destroy his pix and can promise you that anyone here can see that those BD have nothing wrong with them and can you please enlighten me on what problems they had. This may be your funniest post yet

 

[B.C.]

More flak Bulldog! lol

More flak Bulldog! lol

There're a -LOT- of master growers here ! I thought about dropin a few names, but ya know what, I could go on all fuckin day doin that. lol NO SIR! there's a lota master growers here. I do dig yer reasons fer this thread tho. We need ta teach EVERYONE ta be a great grower including the *next generation* !!! So it's very important that it be done correctly. Pay it forward, one love and all that jazz ! lol later, BC

 

[British_Bulldog]

To sum up that fragmented info above:


Regarding feeding & flushing:

- it's possible to achieve very good results with good experience (or someone with experience explaining the methodology, like I learnt on OG)

- it's possible to achieve outstanding results with good experience and learning a plant.

 

[British_Bulldog]

zoolander, I've looked through all the pics in this thread again to find the Bluedancer you're referring to, but am not sure exactly which one you mean - maybe you could quote it, or point it out, so I can see what you mean.


Why is Ty-Stik's pic so good?

Firstly the vast majority of leaves are yellow, the buds are fat to bursting, and you can see down below that the older leaves are dying off and falling. This means that pretty much all the food has been used, and drained from the leaves.

I have just analysed the pic more, and I am editing this, as I think there is also room for improvement in that pic, as there's still some very light green leaves around.

It does, however, reminds me of my old rooms, and that's almost exactly how they looked at the end, when I'd dialled a strain in, but when fully dialled in, there was NO greeness in the leaves at the finale.

I also tended to do production runs of one or two clone plants, that way I could grow a lot and have the results like that every time once I'd learnt them.

If you can't see that Ty's first pic is excellent, then hopefully you will in the future.

 

[Whatever]

Here's a not so good pic of what you guys are talking about regarding beautiful colors but it still smoked smoooooth and tasty. 100% orgasmic...lol. My first shot at organics.

 

[British_Bulldog]

Ok Whatever, a nice looking fat cola, but I seriously cannot imagine how an overfed and underflushed plant like that could be "smooooooth, tasty and 100% orgasmic"???!

Everything's relative, so what's your point of reference?

Have you honestly ever smoked anything that looked like Ty's first pic at harvest?

I guarantee that if you get that plant to use all its food, it will be a lot better.


edit: after seeing your edit, and the addition of another pic, I will say that my reference above is to your 2nd pic, which looks a lot better than the dark green leaves in your 1st pic.

They're so dark it looks like heavily fed veg/early flower pics to me.

 

[British_Bulldog]

B.C. Are there really lots master growers here? No there aren't. There are a lot of very good growers, and a few masters, but if you were around during the "Golden Days" of OG from 2000-2001/2, then you'd remember some of the crazily good grows being posted.

The reason was of course the internet was a new and exciting medium for lots of master growers, and they dipped their foot in it, but stopped after that, some from the way people behaved with them online, some because they felt overexposed and security was an issue (like me) and others because they just moved on.

Some did continue from 2003 onwards, but we really saw a decline in the site and standards from then on. There was a huge influx of newbies, and the site got swamped.

Quality went down, and I'm happy I made some good friends back in 2000-2001/2 who are no longer on the MJ forums, but whom I keep in regular touch with.

Anyone who was around back then will agree with me that those truly were special days.


Peace