DabLab Reloaded-- back to vertville

[papaduc]

I do find it funny that I realized that dhf said basicly the same thing about vegging under t5s and u replied that u "totally agree with dhf on that" , when I say it, its bull spit huh? Yeah I like dhf better than me too lol...

Man if u could keep an open mind u could learn some things, but that's up to u.

MM, mate, I learn nothing from you typing your words.. if growing was as simple as typing is, everyone with a keyboard would be monty don.

I am open minded. I make no bones about flat out disagreeing with you if I think you're wrong, but if you prove your methods to be right, you will see I'll take them on board.

So, get a camera and show me your plants brother.


DHF was talking about horizontal lighting. If he said you should veg to 4 foot high under fluoros then I disagree with him too. I haven't seen him say that anywhere.

I also haven't got anything to get off my chest mate and what I said is nothing personal towards you. I answered abruptly and I apologise, but the facts of it I don't take back, because what you're saying is wrong advice and I will always challenge that because too many people steer people wrong with advice I can tell they haven't properly researched.

It doesn't take much of an open mind to look at those pictures and tell me whether your growth rates are the same, it just takes honesty.

I'm sure Dabs won't mind you answering this one question with a straight yes or no answer:

Are your growth rates and plant structure the same as those pictured above?

I won't respond further after that. We can talk more via pm if you want.

 

[Crooked8]

Im sorry but i have to chime in on the flouro thing. I run t5s only for veg. I veg for 3-5 weeks in only a 2x4 flood tray and i fill up a 4x8 tray under two 1k lights with my plants straight from t5s. I absolutely love the growth i get with t5s. I can take ogs and get 2 per light with this method. Id never run hid in veg since i switched years ago. Less heat less energy and stellar happy stacked plants. I know many others who do it this way and we dont have stretched out plants.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

I know D9 veg`s with the lights he flowers with Bro , but guaranteed sideways footprint will be maxed out before vertical stretch ever gets close to finishing with the proper hybrid....

Never topped my big plants either , and vegged under 400 watt MH`s.....Once I moved to increased plant number setups , T-5`s had become the normal go to for 10x20 flats of rooted cuts , so I employed 432 watts in 2'x4' spaces and regularly pre-vegged 14-18" ers before being put into the bloom rooms.....IOW....

As intense light as the plant can stand as possible at ALL times DEAD over the tops of their ass TILL they go in with the bare bulbs will show the most explosive growth through end of stretch IME....and for the record....

I never got into vertical growing for yield , it was just the way I was taught from the get and I knew nothing else....I was taught 4 plant 5 light setups in 10x10 rooms where each plant gets blasted by 3 bulbs continuously FTW and did well for a decade....

When vegging with bare bulbs you HAVE to know where the plant`s footprint will end up by end of stretch to prevent each plant growing into 1 another sideways choking each other out and competing for light and environment , and that`s where pullin the trigger and dialing each strain comes in huh guys ?....anyways....

Keep strokin Dabster....You da man.....

Peace....DHF........

 

[DabOnDabs]

MM, mate, I learn nothing from you typing your words.. if growing was as simple as typing is, everyone with a keyboard would be monty don.

I am open minded. I make no bones about flat out disagreeing with you if I think you're wrong, but if you prove your methods to be right, you will see I'll take them on board.

So, get a camera and show me your plants brother.


DHF was talking about horizontal lighting. If he said you should veg to 4 foot high under fluoros then I disagree with him too. I haven't seen him say that anywhere.

I also haven't got anything to get off my chest mate and what I said is nothing personal towards you. I answered abruptly and I apologise, but the facts of it I don't take back, because what you're saying is wrong advice and I will always challenge that because too many people steer people wrong with advice I can tell they haven't properly researched.

It doesn't take much of an open mind to look at those pictures and tell me whether your growth rates are the same, it just takes honesty.

I'm sure Dabs won't mind you answering this one question with a straight yes or no answer:

Are your growth rates and plant structure the same as those pictured above?

I won't respond further after that. We can talk more via pm if you want.

Are those from seed or clone.

 

[Crooked8]

^^excellent question

 

[Miraculous Meds]

One more time, papaduc, I promise dabs I wont do this again. the only reason Im responding about this topic in this thread again is because u are calling me out.

MM, mate, I learn nothing from you typing your words.. if growing was as simple as typing is, everyone with a keyboard would be monty don.

I am open minded. I make no bones about flat out disagreeing with you if I think you're wrong, but if you prove your methods to be right, you will see I'll take them on board.

So, get a camera and show me your plants brother.

I am researching cameras and the safety of posting, of course u know this but... U aren't gonna get me to do so until I am ready.

DHF was talking about horizontal lighting. If he said you should veg to 4 foot high under fluoros then I disagree with him too. I haven't seen him say that anywhere.

I also haven't got anything to get off my chest mate and what I said is nothing personal towards you. I answered abruptly and I apologise, but the facts of it I don't take back, because what you're saying is wrong advice and I will always challenge that because too many people steer people wrong with advice I can tell they haven't properly researched.

I offered no advice in the post u are calling me out in. I offered my experience and what has worked for me. I was commenting on the effectiveness of t5 lighting and 3 to 4' plants being healthy but needing some lighting towards the bottom of the plant because the t5 doesn't penetrate that low. what im saying is not wrong as I have actually done it. Have u grown that big of a plant under a t5 to compare, if not maybe ur not the best person to be addressing it. If so please tell us ur experience.

It doesn't take much of an open mind to look at those pictures and tell me whether your growth rates are the same, it just takes honesty.

I'm sure Dabs won't mind you answering this one question with a straight yes or no answer:

Are your growth rates and plant structure the same as those pictured above?

I won't respond further after that. We can talk more via pm if you want.

U see yes or no for this doesn't mean anything. U keep wanting to make everything fit into what u are trying to achieve. IM not questioning u or ur ways, because I understand there is a million different variables, and peoples end goals are different.

For some reason u tell me im wrong, but all ur doing is plugging it into what u do. This is what I do, not u, so maybe my way wont work for u. In that case just disregard it and move on. But instead u gotta tell me im wrong. But u don't grow in my room. so how in the world are u so bold to tell me what does or doesn't work for me. That is the main difference between u and me. I share what works for me, and u say im wrong cause it doesn't work for u.

Im not talking religion here, blind faith believe me shit. Im saying heres my way, if u can take something from it great, if not who cares. I just don't see why u gotta say im wrong when ur not doing what I am doing.

I don't tell u ur wrong with what u do in ur room. Because im smart enough to know if it wont plug into my situation then I wont use it. It doesn't make it wrong for u or ur situation, but it still may be wrong for the way I grow.

 

[papaduc]

Last post on this now because it's going round and you don't seem to have interpreted what I said. Either you get it or you don't. I am not telling you that you're wrong, or your methods are wrong... what you're happy with is right for you

But I'm talking optimum growth.

I've argued the case for t5s with people on here. Someone said they started seedlings under 1000w hid because otherwise they would get straggly plants.. Fluorescent lights are great for the propagation and early veg stage. I've always said that.

But if you've got plants 4 feet high still underneath them, their growth requirements aren't being met, signals are sent to the lateral shoots which send them in search of the light, and your growth becomes spindly and weak. Plants are built for survival, not maximum yields or picture contests. These are fundamentals of plant growing which you can find out for yourself, they're not my opinion.

I was commenting on the effectiveness of t5 lighting and 3 to 4' plants being healthy but needing some lighting towards the bottom of the plant because the t5 doesn't penetrate that low.

There's a big difference between your plants being healthy in regards to them being adequately maintained, and them being at optimum strength and stature. That's the point I'm making.

what im saying is not wrong as I have actually done it. Have u grown that big of a plant under a t5 to compare, if not maybe ur not the best person to be addressing it. If so please tell us ur experience.

I don't know where to begin with this, so I won't. It's a moot point because of everything I said above.

U keep wanting to make everything fit into what u are trying to achieve.

For some reason u tell me im wrong

What I'm saying is as soon as a plant gets big enough to process that much light, the only limiting factor is the amount of light it receives. This is not my law or my rule or my opinion dude. Not my words, not my invention. And I'm not trying to push my methods onto you or anyone else.

What I'm saying is that these things are facts which have been studied long before I put my first seed in the ground and I know well enough to follow growers a lot wiser and older than me who have passed down this knowledge to those willing to open their eyes and ears. We might not all chase the same end goals, you're right, and if you're happy with your methods fine. But with regards to the simple facts regarding plant growth, none of this is a matter of my opinion versus yours, it's a matter of what has been studied and shown and is known.

If you can prove otherwise, please do. There's no rush either.

Im saying heres my way, if u can take something from it great, if not who cares. I just don't see why u gotta say im wrong when ur not doing what I am doing.

I'm saying if you want to get better structure and girth to your plants, don't grow them to 4 feet high under fluoros.

Yes that will work and yes plants can be in good general health, I don't dispute that, but they won't be at their full potential in terms of sized and structure. That's all I'm saying. I'm not telling you to change your methods, I'm making a simple point about vegetative growth. No more than that. Take it easy

 

[papaduc]

This would lower the yield in a tree or flat grow I am sure. Structure matters to the style you grow a lot more than people think.

That's a good point. Structure plays a massive part in the workload later on with plant support. Without doubt it's mitigated a bit by growing on cages where every stem is supported, I agree with that. But still, developing the strongest branches, even in setups where they'll surround a light, will give you bigger overall yields in the end.

Pap is right for his grow but in a doughnut that will lead to a lot of plant removal latter on. Whole different matter with a flat grow.

A lot depends on the strain.

Are those from seed or clone.

Seed mate. I wouldn't compare veg growth of a seed to a clone either btw, but if you compare the growth of clones side by side you'll see the difference in their structure.

I remember Oldtimer1 talking about fresh green shoots having unlimited growth potential. It's only years later than I know what he meant. Once it lignifies and the growth stalls, they never develop the stature they would if that growth rate is maintained throughout the veg phase. Check out his guide to bonsai mums on this site if you haven't already, he mentions it there.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

But still, developing the strongest branches, even in setups where they'll surround a light, will give you bigger overall yields in the end.
I get strong branches by growing a tall spindly plant then dropping the light and set it to the side of the plant to stack the branches and fatten them up. I find that by producing a short plant like you mentioned slows my growth because I have to remove to much of the plant later on in its growth. Just two different ways to grow because we run different set ups.


A lot depends on the strain.

Strain is more important in a doughnut grow than a flat like you do. To much indica and you end up like I mentioned above. A stalled plant because to much has to be removed to prevent larf. To much sativa and it will quickly overwhelm your grow. DHF is right on about 50/50 sativa to indica.

I was only getting on that with floros you can go taller than 6-8 inches and not get stretching from the lower branches. I have done about 12-16 inch before that happened. I remember because I was pissed that I didn't catch it sooner because I had to trim the crap out of my plant and lost time in my grow.

But you are right on that if you use a floro you will slow it down if you don't switch it out. I just feel you can go a little higher than you say. I think it is just a matter of two different set ups working differently is all.

 

[papaduc]

Riiight.. I get where you're coming from now. I didn't understand when you said you'd have to remove a lot of stuff. I suppose it's a matter of the plant being squat vs being thick... A squat plant, yes. A thick plant can still be a tall one though. For example on 4 untrained warlocks I got 6oz each under a 600 because of the thickness and stature of the branches. If I get to the point where the plant starts to stretch, I know even if I put the big light right on them and try and act like nothing happened... they won't get those same branches that'll support those long fat buds. Nice buds still, but not the same.

Another recent one was a black jack from sweet seeds which was on a vertical. It was only held in place by tying each branch to the washing line I ran around the tent.. 6oz on one wall, and it wasn't even filled in properly. It could have done more. But again, it was because of the size of buds those branches supported.

If I get a straggly plant that I know I haven't vegged like I should have, and start tying it to a net, I can still get the overall spread if I put the work in, but I'm never happy with the results. It never seems to fill in the same way. I fill the space, but the buds don't ever seem to pack the weight like they do on the thicker branches.

12-16".. ? Hmm.. why not.. I'll have to give it a go side by side and see what's what, just to be sure. Strain's a really big variable and you know there are strains you could grow with desk lamps and they wouldn't stretch... others could be under a 600 and stretch like...so there's no getting round genetic predisposition without putting in the work.. no light will do that for you.

Obviously there are loads of variables and ups and downs.. there's no flat out this = that and this is why... you know, I hope people can keep the general context and what we know about weed strains and growing, and apply what I'm saying around that.

 

[Stayfoolish]

Good looking shatter dabs.

 

[delta9nxs]

Scotts OG

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A couple of these coulda probably gone another day in the oven. Dude wanted his shit now, so I gave it to him, and took my cut.
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Thats all for now. Happy growing all.

very nice! i had dabs and cookies for breakfast this morning!

 

[DabOnDabs]

Citrix

Honey Bananas #1

Honey Bananas #2

Was getting a couple of funky mutant leaves on one of the HB. Im pretty sure it was because of the fan right above it... I moved that ish.

 

[DabOnDabs]

All of these are citrix

Group shot

 

[DabOnDabs]

Couple pics showing the ventilation setup in this room

2 8'' intakes, 2 8'' exhausts.
Intakes pull air from a custom airfilter box.

Got some new bulbs

 

[DabOnDabs]

 

[DabOnDabs]

6 Days into flower. Most plants are about tits high, in their pots. Probably 30'' give or take right now. Hoping they stretch up to at least 4'. We will see. Still tryin to decide what I want to do to support them. May just staple some trellis to the ceiling, and then anchor it to the pots all the way around. If anything happens, where I would have to pull the bucket out of the ppk, i'de be pretty fucked.

Gonna get working on the big room today. Its cool enough now at night to run it full blast.

I picked up some new fans for that too

2-12'' Can max 1700CFM Fans, and Some big fuggin carbon filters to go with them.
Also picked up another 12'' 1000CFM Fan, and an 8'' for the intake.

2800CFM coming in, 3400CFM going out.(with a little bit of loss for carbon filters and intakes, corners etc. Im not trying to math here)

The room is a little bit over 2000cubic feet, so air exchange is about 1.5x/min.

I got away with WAYYY less last year, so this should be quite the upgrade. Maybe it'll allow me to run into may without any problems. We shall see.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Heres a little peek into my setup.. In case anyone was wondering. Shed out back

Its a mess inside. Focal point; 2 400 Gallon Reservoirs. The one on the right keeps my PPK's topped off. Should only have to make water one more time for the entire run. Dope.

The one on the left will be my bulk res for the DTW coco tree grow in the big room.

Ignore the GH nutes. Anyone want em? You pay for shipping and you can have it. Theres like 2-3 gallons of each. I'm not gonna use it.

180 Degrees from the front of the shed. Its a pallet. With 2x4's. Hmm. Genius.

Strapped up. I have 10 Tubes. One helper can pack tubes while I blow them. Usually I'll help setup the first 5, strap em to the pallet, and get to work. Then the helper loads the other 5, I blast the first 5, empty em, and switch. Timing works about perfect. With 30 minutes of setup time(get out equipment, lay out parts, stuff tubes, etc), I can usually blast about 3lbs an hour like this.

DIY Mini Split Install. Got the split for free, and salvaged a couple pieces of the copper lines from the old location. Only had to run the lines about 24'', so i just cut the lines, flared em, and then charged 'r up. Installing a mini split, is the second easiest thing I've ever done. Ide rather install a mini than a window AC. fucking heavy bastards.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Elevated Res for PPK systems

Gear

Outside of 5 light 4 plant X room

Ventilation/Mini split inside. Only running 1 light. Its not being used right now. Drain still needs to be added. I was a little worried about bending the copper too much, which is why I have the super fatty bends in the pipe. Doesnt look so good, but functionality>looks

Yea... I have a hard piped natural gas line into this room. Pretty ballin.. I know.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Couple things to note from this pic.. These clones were in the same group. Most got transplanted into 16oz solo cups of coco. 4 got transplanted into the PPK's.

The ones in cups are 8-10'' tall now. Thriving. The ones in PPK. Havent grown at all...

Upon transplant, I watered once. Watered once a day for 4 days.. So i know i wasnt drowning em this time. D9? How long after transplant do you tend to see growth?


They dont look UNHEALTHY, but they certainly dont look like the clones in the final picture.