DabLab Reloaded-- back to vertville

[DabOnDabs]

I run at 99 for 24 hours, and flip the slab. wait another 24 hours.

Then, i'll flip again

temp up to 104

12 hours flip
12 hours flip

till they are done. Usually able to get em out in 3.5 days. sometimes takes as long as 5. I have found that with better material, the purge is usually faster? with trim and shittier nug, it seems to take longer. Im not sure why. Can you comment?

How are you running yours

 

[Arminius]

I run at 99 for 24 hours, and flip the slab. wait another 24 hours.

Then, i'll flip again

temp up to 104

12 hours flip
12 hours flip

till they are done. Usually able to get em out in 3.5 days. sometimes takes as long as 5. I have found that with better material, the purge is usually faster? with trim and shittier nug, it seems to take longer. Im not sure why. Can you comment?

How are you running yours

About the same tech as me. I shoot for 105, flip after second purge, then fold into a square for weighing out, and dispensing.
I can't speak on the faster purge.
Are you winterizing it for it to be that clear and stable? I have been putting my 8 oz tube and my solvent into my deep freeze for at least 24 hours. Plant waxes get left behind...

 

[DabOnDabs]

About the same tech as me. I shoot for 105, flip after second purge, then fold into a square for weighing out, and dispensing.
I can't speak on the faster purge.
Are you winterizing it for it to be that clear and stable? I have been putting my 8 oz tube and my solvent into my deep freeze for at least 24 hours. Plant waxes get left behind...

Isnt that fucking up your yields tho? When i run frozen...Yikes.

I dont winterize. I dont scrape either. I have 10 8oz stainless tubes. Usually just load em all up at once, strap em to my pallet, and quick blast it all.

With 1 helper, I can blast about 5 lbs an hour.

 

[DabOnDabs]

I always leave the gas in the freezer.

 

[Bad Habits]

Setup is lookin good bro. Have you flipped your other round of PPKs? Interested to see how this configuration works out for ya.

In the last res pic I see what looks like a flotec pump with the hose attached to it, but is the thing on the right? a float valve?

And man that wax is lookin proper... wish I had someone to run my shit for me!

 

[Arminius]

Isnt that fucking up your yields tho? When i run frozen...Yikes.

I dont winterize. I dont scrape either. I have 10 8oz stainless tubes. Usually just load em all up at once, strap em to my pallet, and quick blast it all.

With 1 helper, I can blast about 5 lbs an hour.

Yeah the yields suffer, but my current broker has very picky clients.
I don't scrape either, blasting onto parchment. Going to try one tube unfrozen, but with frozen gas...

 

[DabOnDabs]

Yeah the yields suffer, but my current broker has very picky clients.
I don't scrape either, blasting onto parchment. Going to try one tube unfrozen, but with frozen gas...

Dont blast directly onto parchment bro..

I have heard of some new parchment paper/oil slick like styff that is "safe" to blast on....

But, i have spent alot of money on stainless everything, to minimize contamination. Why risk it by blasting onto parchment.

I blast into big jars...

Also, i have the best luck running VERY dry bud/ with really cold gas...

When i do frozen everything tho, colors, and smells come out better.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Setup is lookin good bro. Have you flipped your other round of PPKs? Interested to see how this configuration works out for ya.

In the last res pic I see what looks like a flotec pump with the hose attached to it, but is the thing on the right? a float valve?

And man that wax is lookin proper... wish I had someone to run my shit for me!

Its a float valve inside a control container. Keeps the controller bucket from topping up too quickly

 

[copperfacedave]

Love it. How often are they watered?

 

[DunHav`nFun]

Lookin good Dabster.....Back in the day when I grew big plants , we were taught to Veg horizontally to stack nodes and alternate laterals faster , and once "tit`s high"/3'+/- outta the Krusty buckets we pulled the trigger and flipped to the bare bulbs hangin right at tops of plants and raised daily till end of stretch for vertical growth explosion ending up near 6'.....then....

Tops of the mogul sockets even with tops of plants with bulbs dropped down amongst em till end of cycle for max penetration into the plants....

Plants don`t veg with bare bulbs the same as with horizontal reflected light , and bush out more than up during stretch that wastes all the area up above for more plant and bud material as an end result....

Especially the more indica dominant varieties/polyhybrids , so thoughts and strains to ponder bro.....Find a solid 50/50 Sat/Ind hybrid like HL45 has and exploit the shit outta em.....Thanks again for your time and contribution to the community , full pics and descriptions of the PPK will be appreciated for yrs to come I`m sure....

Take care....DHF.........

 

[papaduc]

Totally agree with DHF on that. A lot of it is to do with the bare basics of growing which you can't afford to lose touch with. I've taught myself that lesson before now by neglecting what I knew.
The thing is, at least I did know it based on results before that, which made it easy for me to identify what I needed to do to get my results back on track.

Some people don't identify veg being as important as flower to your overall result. They should, because it is.

I think sometimes the more focused on a certain aspect of growing, in this case vertical growing and yield, the more you can lose track of the basic fundamentals which put in place the foundation on which yields are built. Without the proper structure of your plant, you have immediately limited it's potential yield, that is a biological fact which you can do easy side by side tests to find out.

It's not just the way the plants are vegged, ie flat or high, either.

I always talk about this principle. I use the metaphor of the baton pass to try and get people to understand the way the plant grows and the things which can and will limit it. Whether they're by a few milliseconds on the changeover or whether you drop the baton and lose major time, is dependent on how you take care of each stage.

The effects it has will surprise people who take these simple methods on board, but, on reflection, seem like obvious common sense. I tried to talk about this in the dud thread but just met a wall of pure ignorance from growers who just don't want to be told there are some things they should be doing differently if they want to get better results. I know I won't get that here.

The clone you've got in that big pot, already is limited by it's structure. Now, I remember ages ago I said this to you about those vegging lights and getting the clone started, but timing is crucial. If your cuts are going to be left for more than a couple of weeks to grow under a fluoro, to the point where they'll be a foot or more high.... DON'T start them yet.

This is what I was talking about before with the baton thing...

First thing you've got to do is make sure the mother plant is giving cuttings which will be a stout and strong clone. Not a skinny toothpick.

To do that obviously you need to get the mum growing nice healthy shoots. If she's in a small pot, put her into a bigger one (5L will do) and under some good lights... you can chop the rootball back after you take the cuts and they can go back into their small mother pots.

Now you want the rooted clone in a seed cup, with a fluoro right down on top of it's head. That'll thicken the base of the plant and give it a good structure to move on with, and that's your first section of the track. It's a very important part.

Now, when that thick stout stubby little plant gets to six inches... THAT'S IT.

That's the point where fluoro can no longer satisfy it's needs. It will still grow, yes, but everything below 4 or 5 inches will begin stretching, and that's not at all what you want. Stretching is bad. The structure can never be the same on a plant which has stretched to one which hasn't. How much of an effect that has obviously goes back to the baton analogy... a few days, no big deal... a few weeks... fuck it... you will never have the structure on that plant that you desire. Simple as that.

So, you take the stubby little thing at 6-8 inches, and only THEN you pot it into it's final home - some people say pot up but those variables I won't go into right now.

You then put it under the HID light and that same stout thick growth continues. It starts rooting out it's pot and it's above ground growth responds accordingly.

The growth you'll get by following that start, vs letting them get straggly, you'll see for yourself.

I know that for me, there were points where I really had to re-tune myself to those principles. It's so easy to lose track with everything else going on, but that start and the timing involved is a major part of your grow in my experience.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Now you want the rooted clone in a seed cup, with a fluoro right down on top of it's head. That'll thicken the base of the plant and give it a good structure to move on with, and that's your first section of the track. It's a very important part.

Now, when that thick stout stubby little plant gets to six inches... THAT'S IT.

That's the point where fluoro can no longer satisfy it's needs. It will still grow, yes, but everything below 4 or 5 inches will begin stretching, and that's not at all what you want.
You then put it under the HID light and that same stout thick growth continues. It starts rooting out it's pot and it's above ground growth responds accordingly.

I disagree with this. I can get plants up to a little over a foot with floro's. But I am running 8 (54) watt bulbs and not crowding them together. That is 54 watts per square foot for my setup.

 

[Oti$]

I too get them up to about a foot under the t-5s...i agree though, that veg is as, if not more important than flower. If you get them vegged up properly when its time to flip its pretty much smooth sailing...if everything else is in line too. Keep killin it dabs!

 

[DabOnDabs]

Lookin good Dabster.....Back in the day when I grew big plants , we were taught to Veg horizontally to stack nodes and alternate laterals faster , and once "tit`s high"/3'+/- outta the Krusty buckets we pulled the trigger and flipped to the bare bulbs hangin right at tops of plants and raised daily till end of stretch for vertical growth explosion ending up near 6'.....then....

Tops of the mogul sockets even with tops of plants with bulbs dropped down amongst em till end of cycle for max penetration into the plants....

Plants don`t veg with bare bulbs the same as with horizontal reflected light , and bush out more than up during stretch that wastes all the area up above for more plant and bud material as an end result....

Especially the more indica dominant varieties/polyhybrids , so thoughts and strains to ponder bro.....Find a solid 50/50 Sat/Ind hybrid like HL45 has and exploit the shit outta em.....Thanks again for your time and contribution to the community , full pics and descriptions of the PPK will be appreciated for yrs to come I`m sure....

Take care....DHF.........

Totally agree with DHF on that. A lot of it is to do with the bare basics of growing which you can't afford to lose touch with. I've taught myself that lesson before now by neglecting what I knew.
The thing is, at least I did know it based on results before that, which made it easy for me to identify what I needed to do to get my results back on track.

Some people don't identify veg being as important as flower to your overall result. They should, because it is.

I think sometimes the more focused on a certain aspect of growing, in this case vertical growing and yield, the more you can lose track of the basic fundamentals which put in place the foundation on which yields are built. Without the proper structure of your plant, you have immediately limited it's potential yield, that is a biological fact which you can do easy side by side tests to find out.

It's not just the way the plants are vegged, ie flat or high, either.

I always talk about this principle. I use the metaphor of the baton pass to try and get people to understand the way the plant grows and the things which can and will limit it. Whether they're by a few milliseconds on the changeover or whether you drop the baton and lose major time, is dependent on how you take care of each stage.

The effects it has will surprise people who take these simple methods on board, but, on reflection, seem like obvious common sense. I tried to talk about this in the dud thread but just met a wall of pure ignorance from growers who just don't want to be told there are some things they should be doing differently if they want to get better results. I know I won't get that here.

The clone you've got in that big pot, already is limited by it's structure. Now, I remember ages ago I said this to you about those vegging lights and getting the clone started, but timing is crucial. If your cuts are going to be left for more than a couple of weeks to grow under a fluoro, to the point where they'll be a foot or more high.... DON'T start them yet.

This is what I was talking about before with the baton thing...

First thing you've got to do is make sure the mother plant is giving cuttings which will be a stout and strong clone. Not a skinny toothpick.

To do that obviously you need to get the mum growing nice healthy shoots. If she's in a small pot, put her into a bigger one (5L will do) and under some good lights... you can chop the rootball back after you take the cuts and they can go back into their small mother pots.

Now you want the rooted clone in a seed cup, with a fluoro right down on top of it's head. That'll thicken the base of the plant and give it a good structure to move on with, and that's your first section of the track. It's a very important part.

Now, when that thick stout stubby little plant gets to six inches... THAT'S IT.

That's the point where fluoro can no longer satisfy it's needs. It will still grow, yes, but everything below 4 or 5 inches will begin stretching, and that's not at all what you want. Stretching is bad. The structure can never be the same on a plant which has stretched to one which hasn't. How much of an effect that has obviously goes back to the baton analogy... a few days, no big deal... a few weeks... fuck it... you will never have the structure on that plant that you desire. Simple as that.

So, you take the stubby little thing at 6-8 inches, and only THEN you pot it into it's final home - some people say pot up but those variables I won't go into right now.

You then put it under the HID light and that same stout thick growth continues. It starts rooting out it's pot and it's above ground growth responds accordingly.

The growth you'll get by following that start, vs letting them get straggly, you'll see for yourself.

I know that for me, there were points where I really had to re-tune myself to those principles. It's so easy to lose track with everything else going on, but that start and the timing involved is a major part of your grow in my experience.

I certainly agree with both of you. Yal both taught me tons about proper vegging of vert plants back in the day....

Some comments:

When running vert donuts, I would certainly agree that gettin em nice and tall is ideal, before getting them bushy. I sorta planned on getting those 10 plants in the donuts into my big flower room to flower, but temperatures sorta limited me, so i decided to keep em in place, and only run with 4k at night.

When running X's however, Im thinking that tall and skinny isnt the best thing. I have been doing my cloning under t12's, then transfering to cups under t5's for 7-10 days. After that tho, I need these plants to get bushy to fill up their 5x5' area.

D9 also likes to veg his plants under the lights they will be flowered under.


I'de also like to add that Im a huge proponent of healthy veg plants making the best flower plants (obviously). Its just been chaotic getting all the rooms rebuilt and flipped to different systems, while working, and going to school. You know how it is. I wish i had more time for stuff... Construction should start slowing down this fall, so there will be more time for the fun stuff.

 

[DabOnDabs]

I disagree with this. I can get plants up to a little over a foot with floro's. But I am running 8 (54) watt bulbs and not crowding them together. That is 54 watts per square foot for my setup.

If we're going for records, I've gotten veg plants to over 28'' in a 16oz solo cup

I dont think that was duc's point tho.

He's just saying that ideally, you want to transfer from rooted clone -> cup - > final pot in a smooth consistent manner, with the lights down on top of the clones head, and adding more powerful light as you increase pot size to prevent stretch and to promote stocky, full plants.

I know i'm not teaching you anything ich, just throwing out my interpretation

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I too get them up to about a foot under the t-5s...i agree though, that veg is as, if not more important than flower. If you get them vegged up properly when its time to flip its pretty much smooth sailing...if everything else is in line too. Keep killin it dabs!

I get them to 3 or 4' under t5's with nice size stalks, I was surprised this could be done. When u get passed 3' though some of the bottoms need supplemental lighting to keep healthy.

I just saw dhf said this, sorry for repeating.

 

[papaduc]

I get them to 3 or 4' under t5's with nice size stalks, I was surprised this could be done. When u get passed 3' though some of the bottoms need supplemental lighting to keep healthy.

I just saw dhf said this, sorry for repeating.

Mate I'm going to just say this straight, until you get a camera and show us what you're doing, you really need to hold off on the advice imo because that is just plain wrong and very misleading. It makes me strongly doubt what you claimed about your 1.5-2gpw yields if that's how you're going about things. It makes giving advice on how to properly veg your plants for the very best structure almost pointless. If it was my opinion or a subject of debate, then fine, fire away, but it is not. It's a fact and if you disagree, you have to give evidence because what you're saying goes against all fact, study, logic, biology, science and physics.

You cannot get the same growth rates from a fluorescent light on a 3-4 foot plant that you can on a 600w. If you're doing that, you are defying all the laws of plant biology and you really need to be showing us how it's done.

I don't want to get into a back and forth like in the other thread because that was the place for that sort of discussion, and without any photos of your work that advice is plain misleading brother. Sorry if that's blunt and a bit harsh, but I know for a fact it is true.

Yes you can get plants to over 2-4 feet tall under t5 fluorescent light. But there is a big difference in their structure if that's what you choose to do, and if you think you can use plants like that to produce for you like those which have undergone proper treatment through the veg cycle, you are just wrong.

Show us your work. Get a cheap camera. Compare your stalks to this picture and tell me how long it takes you to get to this stage.

That is 12 days since this photo

And the branches you see in the first picture are these tiny little shoots

You show me how you achieve the same results as that, and I will change my methods. I promise you that.

 

[papaduc]

ideally, you want to transfer from rooted clone -> cup - > final pot in a smooth consistent manner, with the lights down on top of the clones head, and adding more powerful light as you increase pot size to prevent stretch and to promote stocky, full plants.

That's exactly it.

We can't always hit the targets on timing or other areas, but that ideally is what you're aiming for and if you nail it, you will see the difference in the end result guaranteed.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

If we're going for records, I've gotten veg plants to over 28'' in a 16oz solo cup

I dont think that was duc's point tho.

He's just saying that ideally, you want to transfer from rooted clone -> cup - > final pot in a smooth consistent manner, with the lights down on top of the clones head, and adding more powerful light as you increase pot size to prevent stretch and to promote stocky, full plants.

I know i'm not teaching you anything ich, just throwing out my interpretation

I was getting the impression that he was saying that you must change up your lights at 6-8 inches for maximum yield. I know for a fact that you can grow taller than that under floros with out making thin branches on the bottom. I have done it.

As for different structure on bush verses doughnuts you are dead on. I like a taller plant that does not fill in right from the start of veg for my doughnuts. I fill in latter in veg with a floppy plant in the start. This would lower the yield in a tree or flat grow I am sure. Structure matters to the style you grow a lot more than people think.

Pap is right for his grow but in a doughnut that will lead to a lot of plant removal latter on. Whole different matter with a flat grow.

I am not going for records at all. I am far from the best grower here for sure. Most of the different styles of grow have different key points that may hurt someone growing differently.

Oh that shatter looks stellar.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

papaduc, I don't care if u believe me.

I do find it funny that I realized that dhf said basicly the same thing about vegging under t5s and u replied that u "totally agree with dhf on that" , when I say it, its bull spit huh? Yeah I like dhf better than me too lol...

I said I hit 1.5 not 2 . 2 is my goal. I would appreciate it if u would stop twisting what I say to support ur point of view. Have ur opinions but don't switch my words around.

Man if u could keep an open mind u could learn some things, but that's up to u.

I will not respond in this thread to u again, so if u got something on ur chest, send it to pm.