People have reported that JR Peters is very helpful when contacted, and will discuss MMJ, and it's needs.
The Jack's is just one of many of their products. They can even make you a custom mix based on a water test.
I would give them a call/email.
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DabLab Reloaded-- back to vertville
- Thread starter DabOnDabs
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The Jack's is just one of many of their products. They can even make you a custom mix based on a water test.
I would give them a call/email.
The Calcium Nitrate must be used with Jacks Hydro. They have two boosters which are 5-50-18 (Dry Koolbloom anyone?), and 10-30-20.
From what I have gathered, they recommend using just the 10-30-20 (in place of base nutes) after flower set until chop. It has micros, and I am testing it on a run right now. I did 5-50-18 at Week 4, then have been using just the 10-30-20 til finish. So far, so good, but Week 7-8 on the Chem Sis will tell me what I need to know.
SRGB
Member
DabsOnDabs:
Also, you have said that you mix the calcnit first. In dizzlekush's thread he also suggests getting the alkalinity of your water set (mix tap/ro/ph down), then add caclnit..
I have always added jacks first, then calcnit; I must be doing that wrong, or does it matter when using a concentrated solution?
Hi, DabsOnDabs.
Hope it is ok to post in your thread.
If possible, it might be advantageous to dissolve calcium in its own separate tank, and further deliver it as a standalone solution. NPK-Mg-S, etc., dissolved in a separate tank and delivered as a standalone solution. The purpose of the 2 tank approach would be to prevent precipitation of the calcium from occurring. This approach might actually be within most 2 part solution recommendations, though they might state that it is ok to mix calcium with the remainder of a given solution in small amounts. Precipitation might not be easily viewable by the gardener; a given solution might not be fully miscible, though it might appear to human vision to be fully dissolved.
Some of the dry nutrioents at large that contain both calcium and npk-mg-s might have as its calcium part a `slow release` form of calcium, or rather, some form of a coating around the calcium for the purpose of it to dissolve slowly while in a solution with chemicals that it might react with - as calcium might be a rather reactive element. This type of `slow release` formulation might not be printed on thelabel o the combined dry mix.
A gardener can mix calcium with npk-mg-s, in small amounts, and things can go well. Although, mixing and delivering calcium and npk-mg-s from separate tanks might decrease the chances of precipitates forming within the media - especially if delivered at different occasions, that is, for example, npk-mg-s fed at day 1, calcium fed at day 2, etc.
Although not necessarily focused on as a `key` element, the soilless (or soil, aeroponics, etc.) gardener might also deliver iron as a standalone supplement occasionally as well, preferably at a more acidic pH, as Fe might become less soluble as the pH becomes more alkaline. Iron deficiency, or, iron insolubility - though it may be present within a given solution - might initially appear similar to a calcium deficiency at the specimen; that is, initailly paling to yellowing tops, though unlike calcium issues, iron issues can quickly produce a `scorched` appearing specimen.
In any event, the option to mix calcium separately from the base solution might still be found in some respective manufacturers` literature, even if they might simultaneously print that calcium can be mixed in `small` amounts within the same tank. The greater volume of calcium mixed within the same tank as the base solution might provide a greater chance for precipitates (solids) to form within that solution, though the symptoms of such might not appear immediately, or slightly, if at all - if the cal amount is `small`.
This is simply the result of the discreet chemical properties of calcium. That same reactiveness might possibly be observable on the fixtures of sinks or showwers; not necessarily an immeiate build up of calcium deposits in a single day of usage, but might possibly for `calcium build up` over time. Similar iron solids might also form, gradually, potentially unnoticed by the gardener - especially if any pumps, manifolds, or feed lines are used to deliver the nutrients, where build up can go unnoticed for an entire season, potentially affecting the solubility of the total solution or availability of discreet elements within the solution; i.e.g., calcium and iron. if a gardener were to perhaps study literature from, or even visit several large greenhouse facilities, the gardener might find their nutrient delivery practices separate calcium from other elements, to prevent or at least decrease the potential for precipitates forming, or the solution from becoming immiscible.
This post is not inteneded by any means to be definitive as to mixing calcium separately, but simply a possible option for the gardener to perhaps further examine or explore. We hope that this post might be helpful.
Kind regards,
/SRGB/
Also, you have said that you mix the calcnit first. In dizzlekush's thread he also suggests getting the alkalinity of your water set (mix tap/ro/ph down), then add caclnit..
I have always added jacks first, then calcnit; I must be doing that wrong, or does it matter when using a concentrated solution?
Hi, DabsOnDabs.
Hope it is ok to post in your thread.
If possible, it might be advantageous to dissolve calcium in its own separate tank, and further deliver it as a standalone solution. NPK-Mg-S, etc., dissolved in a separate tank and delivered as a standalone solution. The purpose of the 2 tank approach would be to prevent precipitation of the calcium from occurring. This approach might actually be within most 2 part solution recommendations, though they might state that it is ok to mix calcium with the remainder of a given solution in small amounts. Precipitation might not be easily viewable by the gardener; a given solution might not be fully miscible, though it might appear to human vision to be fully dissolved.
Some of the dry nutrioents at large that contain both calcium and npk-mg-s might have as its calcium part a `slow release` form of calcium, or rather, some form of a coating around the calcium for the purpose of it to dissolve slowly while in a solution with chemicals that it might react with - as calcium might be a rather reactive element. This type of `slow release` formulation might not be printed on thelabel o the combined dry mix.
A gardener can mix calcium with npk-mg-s, in small amounts, and things can go well. Although, mixing and delivering calcium and npk-mg-s from separate tanks might decrease the chances of precipitates forming within the media - especially if delivered at different occasions, that is, for example, npk-mg-s fed at day 1, calcium fed at day 2, etc.
Although not necessarily focused on as a `key` element, the soilless (or soil, aeroponics, etc.) gardener might also deliver iron as a standalone supplement occasionally as well, preferably at a more acidic pH, as Fe might become less soluble as the pH becomes more alkaline. Iron deficiency, or, iron insolubility - though it may be present within a given solution - might initially appear similar to a calcium deficiency at the specimen; that is, initailly paling to yellowing tops, though unlike calcium issues, iron issues can quickly produce a `scorched` appearing specimen.
In any event, the option to mix calcium separately from the base solution might still be found in some respective manufacturers` literature, even if they might simultaneously print that calcium can be mixed in `small` amounts within the same tank. The greater volume of calcium mixed within the same tank as the base solution might provide a greater chance for precipitates (solids) to form within that solution, though the symptoms of such might not appear immediately, or slightly, if at all - if the cal amount is `small`.
This is simply the result of the discreet chemical properties of calcium. That same reactiveness might possibly be observable on the fixtures of sinks or showwers; not necessarily an immeiate build up of calcium deposits in a single day of usage, but might possibly for `calcium build up` over time. Similar iron solids might also form, gradually, potentially unnoticed by the gardener - especially if any pumps, manifolds, or feed lines are used to deliver the nutrients, where build up can go unnoticed for an entire season, potentially affecting the solubility of the total solution or availability of discreet elements within the solution; i.e.g., calcium and iron. if a gardener were to perhaps study literature from, or even visit several large greenhouse facilities, the gardener might find their nutrient delivery practices separate calcium from other elements, to prevent or at least decrease the potential for precipitates forming, or the solution from becoming immiscible.
This post is not inteneded by any means to be definitive as to mixing calcium separately, but simply a possible option for the gardener to perhaps further examine or explore. We hope that this post might be helpful.
Kind regards,
/SRGB/
Of course its fine to post in here; In fact, I was wondering when I'de lure you in here. I've read similar posts made by you on this subject before. I think its an awesome idea to feed calcium seperately...BUT, I'm still trying to figure out general nutrient principles, and adding one more nute tank/changing the feeding schedule will certainly only further complicate things for me.
I appreciate the input. I'm not seeing any visible pricipitate, so for now I think I'll just leave it as is. I do like your Iron recommendation though, and i will employ it in future grows
SRGB
Member
DabsOnBads:
Of course its fine to post in here; In fact, I was wondering when I'de lure you in here. I've read similar posts made by you on this subject before. I think its an awesome idea to feed calcium seperately...BUT, I'm still trying to figure out general nutrient principles, and adding one more nute tank/changing the feeding schedule will certainly only further complicate things for me.
I appreciate the input. I'm not seeing any visible pricipitate, so for now I think I'll just leave it as is. I do like your Iron recommendation though, and i will employ it in future grows
Hi, DabsOnDabs.
Thanks. We only posted because we noticed some discussion that appeared to mention the topic of mixing dry discreet nutrients into a complete solution.
While some, if not many have mixed calcium with npk-mg-s, if a gardener were to read the literature relevant to that practice, it might be noted by the manufacturer that such a practce might be viable for small amount of calcium, yet may still increase the possibility of precipitates forming within the solution.
Precipitates might not be visible to the human eye. Immiscibility might not be visible to the human eye. As a cursory example, iron becomes less soluble as the solution pH becomes more alkaline. That does not mean that the Fe is not pressent in the solution, simply that it is less available to roots to exchange for other elements. Again, this might not be at the visible level, that is, perhaps until symptoms potentially become apparent on the specimen. However, since the gardener had been supplying all of the required elements, how will they isolate the issue? They might not start at iron, because they had supplied it in recommended amounts - but if the pH range of solubility of iron does not persist, the iron might simply be unavailable within the solution, but still presnt.
Calcium might be generally considered in chemistry to be a `reactive` element. When mixed with phosphates (an element in most pre-mixed dry nutrients), the chemical properties of each migght well affect the solubility of the solution, or rather, the immiscibility. Again, the gardner may, or may not notice fine particulate at the bottom of a mixing tank. That humans` vision may not be able to see the chemical properties of the two (or more) elements reacting with each other, again, until symptoms might possibly appear at the specimen level.
One of the most un-complicated nutrient regimes might be one of the maxi series - single bag - either grow or bloom,or the two mixed. Again, the manufacturer might have already helped out the gardener by formulating the included calcium with some form of `slow release` innovation; that might not be on the label, but possibly necessary to hold such reactive chemicals in the same bag/container, and further for them to dissociate into a fully soluble solution with minimal precipitates. Very simple to apply; 1-3 teaspoons per gallon. Mixing dry nutirients from scratch might be somewhat more complicated, as the gardener might have to account for the general reactiveness of the chemical calcium. Again, these are chemicals, with well-defined chemical proerties that are applicable whether they are termed `nutrients` or simply their periodic table names. The reactiveness of calcium does not become null simply because it is within a bag or container labeled `nutrients` or `fertilizers`. The labeling standards or requirements for that particular industry might not demand that `calcium might react and cause precipiatates` on the label.
In any event, below are some instructions from a randomly selected nutrient mixing instructions document. If a gardner were to study several dozen - or several hundred - of such documents or large greenhouses practices literature, similar considerations might be explored by the authors. Again, the below is merely an exceprt from a randomly selected set of mixing instructions for a randomly selected brand of dry nutrients (`fertilizers`).
This post is not to convey that mixing cacium with other nutrients does not, will not or cannot work. It apparently does for many gardneners. We will leave it to the gardener to further explore or examine the topic.
Best,
/SRGB/
Of course its fine to post in here; In fact, I was wondering when I'de lure you in here. I've read similar posts made by you on this subject before. I think its an awesome idea to feed calcium seperately...BUT, I'm still trying to figure out general nutrient principles, and adding one more nute tank/changing the feeding schedule will certainly only further complicate things for me.
I appreciate the input. I'm not seeing any visible pricipitate, so for now I think I'll just leave it as is. I do like your Iron recommendation though, and i will employ it in future grows
Hi, DabsOnDabs.
Thanks. We only posted because we noticed some discussion that appeared to mention the topic of mixing dry discreet nutrients into a complete solution.
While some, if not many have mixed calcium with npk-mg-s, if a gardener were to read the literature relevant to that practice, it might be noted by the manufacturer that such a practce might be viable for small amount of calcium, yet may still increase the possibility of precipitates forming within the solution.
Precipitates might not be visible to the human eye. Immiscibility might not be visible to the human eye. As a cursory example, iron becomes less soluble as the solution pH becomes more alkaline. That does not mean that the Fe is not pressent in the solution, simply that it is less available to roots to exchange for other elements. Again, this might not be at the visible level, that is, perhaps until symptoms potentially become apparent on the specimen. However, since the gardener had been supplying all of the required elements, how will they isolate the issue? They might not start at iron, because they had supplied it in recommended amounts - but if the pH range of solubility of iron does not persist, the iron might simply be unavailable within the solution, but still presnt.
Calcium might be generally considered in chemistry to be a `reactive` element. When mixed with phosphates (an element in most pre-mixed dry nutrients), the chemical properties of each migght well affect the solubility of the solution, or rather, the immiscibility. Again, the gardner may, or may not notice fine particulate at the bottom of a mixing tank. That humans` vision may not be able to see the chemical properties of the two (or more) elements reacting with each other, again, until symptoms might possibly appear at the specimen level.
One of the most un-complicated nutrient regimes might be one of the maxi series - single bag - either grow or bloom,or the two mixed. Again, the manufacturer might have already helped out the gardener by formulating the included calcium with some form of `slow release` innovation; that might not be on the label, but possibly necessary to hold such reactive chemicals in the same bag/container, and further for them to dissociate into a fully soluble solution with minimal precipitates. Very simple to apply; 1-3 teaspoons per gallon. Mixing dry nutirients from scratch might be somewhat more complicated, as the gardener might have to account for the general reactiveness of the chemical calcium. Again, these are chemicals, with well-defined chemical proerties that are applicable whether they are termed `nutrients` or simply their periodic table names. The reactiveness of calcium does not become null simply because it is within a bag or container labeled `nutrients` or `fertilizers`. The labeling standards or requirements for that particular industry might not demand that `calcium might react and cause precipiatates` on the label.
In any event, below are some instructions from a randomly selected nutrient mixing instructions document. If a gardner were to study several dozen - or several hundred - of such documents or large greenhouses practices literature, similar considerations might be explored by the authors. Again, the below is merely an exceprt from a randomly selected set of mixing instructions for a randomly selected brand of dry nutrients (`fertilizers`).
Randomly selected nutrient preparation documentation. solufeed .co.uk/media/5886/solufeed%20f%20and%20h%20technical%20bulletin .pdf
This post is not to convey that mixing cacium with other nutrients does not, will not or cannot work. It apparently does for many gardneners. We will leave it to the gardener to further explore or examine the topic.
Best,
/SRGB/
Thanks, very informative. sparked my curiosity a bit
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ornamentals/floriculture/prepare.pdf
http://hawaiiffa.org/uploads/3/1/0/2/3102328/mini_hydroponic_system.pdf
Seems the general recommendation is simply mixing stock solutions as I do before adding to a reservoir. Everything I've found just says add the calcnit last.
This is what J.R. Peters Recommends. Not telling you you're wrong, or that I'm right. Its just quite interesting.
Nice one.
What both these posts revolve around is the mixing of the calcium and phosphates at concentrated amounts. In that case a precipitation will occur. If you think about it, lots of things lock together or react explosively when water is added, but are fine when they're added to water. It's why the maxigrow can be kept in one bag,
it's only when water is added that the chemical properties become an issue. That's to the best of my knowledge anyway.
If you mix them both at separate times into a large reservoir of water, that shouldn't happen. Not to the point where it will ever affect the plants anyway.
It's fine to mix them into the same tank, as long as you're doing it properly.
Ttystikk
Member
Heh heh, clear as MUD! There are miscibility issues between calcium and several other nutrients. These issues all revolve around solubility and the ability of the materials involved to remain in solution, as opposed to precipitating out and becoming an insoluble... solid.
I mix up my calcium nitrate FIRST and add it first. Two reasons; one, the stuff mixes very quickly and completely, two it's now mixed and therefore at its lowest possible concentration.
You get into trouble when your solution strength gets too high, which promotes calcium and phosphate to mix- and even more readily, calcium and sulfur to make gypsum. That's why I mix and add it first, it solves this problem before it can happen.
Then I mix and add the hydro mix part and I have zero problems. If adding epsom salt, I add it to this. NEVER add epsom salts to anything with concentrated calcium in it!
The above is really all I've needed to keep in mind and I've had years of happy use of dry nutrient salts- and the huge cost savings that come with their use.
I mix up my calcium nitrate FIRST and add it first. Two reasons; one, the stuff mixes very quickly and completely, two it's now mixed and therefore at its lowest possible concentration.
You get into trouble when your solution strength gets too high, which promotes calcium and phosphate to mix- and even more readily, calcium and sulfur to make gypsum. That's why I mix and add it first, it solves this problem before it can happen.
Then I mix and add the hydro mix part and I have zero problems. If adding epsom salt, I add it to this. NEVER add epsom salts to anything with concentrated calcium in it!
The above is really all I've needed to keep in mind and I've had years of happy use of dry nutrient salts- and the huge cost savings that come with their use.
I understand what you're saying and it makes sense...can you explain why J.R. Peters and others suggest adding it last?
