DabLab Reloaded-- back to vertville

[DabOnDabs]

I hear ya on the defoliating. I will do a better job next time...

The 2g/2g was hitting 900ppm @ .5 conversion. I diluted 2 grams of jacks in one gallon of water and 2 grams of calcnit in a separate gallon of water. Both weighed on a 100th's scale for accuracy. Each gallon's ppm was ~450..One was 440, one was 450 but I forget which one..either way it was negligible. But, I'm feeding like 8 times/ day.. 900ppm is obviously too much. 600 is what I'm shooting for....

Guess I should describe how i mix my shit...

To mix my jacks, I just make a concentrated solution of the jacks, and a concentrated solution of the calcnit.
First, I heat up a gallon of R.O, and then add a buncha jacks or calcnit and mix it up till its all disolved.
Then while mixing my res, i just add the jacks concentrate until I hit 300ppm, and then the Calcnit until i hit 600ppm.

This is how i understood how to use the 2g/2g ratio..otherwise the e.c is a little high no? I posted the ratio's that this comes up with if i am doing it correctly a few pages back.

Anyways, I wasnt quite sure if i was using the jacks right. That combined with slow bud formation and a quick N tox scare got me all worried and back on the GH. I had it laying around anyways, so i didnt have to go buy anything.

Right now I'm feeding my veg plants the 300:300 jacks...They love it. Similarly, my plants were loving it through the start of flower, but around week 4 things got a little shaky (partly because I boosted feed to 1.5. Dont ask me why).

Still learning a ton, and trying to figure out what works best for me. The good thing is I'm taking really good notes, and I'm able to recognize problems before/as they happen rather than after. I'm not scared away from the jacks. In fact, I'm gonna be moving towards PPK's here soon so i'll just use D9's..next couple runs are going in 50/50 coco perlite tho, so i need to figure it out.

I'de love a more clear explanation on how you use Jacks if you could spare the time. Thanks for stoppin by!

 

[Mister_D]

Ok not sure that randomly making concentrates is a reliable method, though logically it seems like what your doing would work. What I do is figure out how many gallons I need mixed, and multiple that by two, then weigh however much that number is in grams on a digital scale. As an example, if mixing say 100 gal of nute water. I would take 200 grams of cal-nit, and completely dissolve it in a 5 gal bucket with 3-4 gal. of water in it. Then add it to the 100 gal tank. Allow it to mix for at least a few hours, up to 24 hours is preferable for large volumes. Next take 200 grams of jacks hydro and completely dissolve in 3-4 gal. of water. Then add to the 100 gal. tank, again waiting at least a few hours before use. If mixing smaller quantities say 1-5 gals I just mix each component directly in the bucket and use immediately. Something to keep in mind, these are very concentrated powders. Accuracy when measuring is very important.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Oh, and i ended up using 4ml micro, 9ml Bloom. Saw paling within a week, and lower leaves started to yellow and die but healthy up top. I was reading through h3ads thread, and he drops the micro completely half way through. He's gotta experience some crazy yellowing from that no?

Reading through these threads is sometimes a cluster fuck and the info is all over the board. Not convinced that the 4/9 is that great of a mid-late flower recipe either, but I dont have too much experience to base that off. I was running 6/9 + shit and hitting like 800-1000ppm all through flower. Definately not the way to go either. Haha. The quality this round is definately much better. We'll see how the weight is. Not gonna set records, but its all good.. The quality will be there.

Im gonna try Boveda 62% Packs + 5 gallon buckets with paper bags inside + gamma -air tight packs for my cure this go around. Its hard as fuck to get it right here in CO. I'm hoping to a take a little guess work out of it, and I've heard and seen some pretty great shit from those folks.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Comes out to 750-800 ppm @ .5 depending on my tap water. Did you actually mix some up and test it, or just look at the mix in a calculator?

I actually mixed it up.

2 grams of each in 1 gallon of R.O. (seperate gallons of R.O obviously)

 

[DabOnDabs]

are you going 800 ppm all the way through flower? 2g/2g w the calculator would DEFINATELY fuck my plants up w/ the N tox. They dont like that shit after stretch.

 

[Mister_D]

Oh, and i ended up using 4ml micro, 9ml Bloom. Saw paling within a week, and lower leaves started to yellow and die but healthy up top. I was reading through h3ads thread, and he drops the micro completely half way through. He's gotta experience some crazy yellowing from that no?

Mostly strain dependent. I find it's usually ends up better to drop the micro around week 5-9 depending on flowering time.

Reading through these threads is sometimes a cluster fuck and the info is all over the board. Not convinced that the 4/9 is that great of a mid-late flower recipe either, but I dont have too much experience to base that off. I was running 6/9 + shit and hitting like 800-1000ppm all through flower. Definately not the way to go either. Haha. The quality this round is definately much better. We'll see how the weight is. Not gonna set records, but its all good.. The quality will be there.

6/9 @ 1.5EC veg through flush, or completely dropping micro later in flower (week 5-9) has worked well for me for a couple years now. Like I said though it's strain dependent, adjust feed strength based on what the plant tells you. The ratio is correct with 6/9 & 2+2 so it's just a matter of adjusting concentration to make sure the root zone stays in the proper EC range throughout the plants life.

Im gonna try Boveda 62% Packs + 5 gallon buckets with paper bags inside + gamma -air tight packs for my cure this go around. Its hard as fuck to get it right here in CO. I'm hoping to a take a little guess work out of it, and I've heard and seen some pretty great shit from those folks.

Those seem like a good option. I know what you mean about drying in CO. I actually resorted to building a room sized humidor for drying and curing in .

I actually mixed it up.

2 grams of each in 1 gallon of R.O. (seperate gallons of R.O obviously)

You want to mix them in the same gal for an accurate measure of what is going to happen when you actually use them. Unless of course you want to apply them separately also.

are you going 800 ppm all the way through flower? 2g/2g w the calculator would DEFINATELY fuck my plants up w/ the N tox. They dont like that shit after stretch.

I dropped the cal-nit @ week 5 on my chemmy jones because of slight N toxicity. Though I feel like it's partially my fault for eyeballing measurements, and my jones seems N sensitive anyway.

 

[DabOnDabs]

So am i correct that 300 ppm of each is just a diluted form of 2g/2g?

2g/2g comes out to 3.75-1-4. When you cut the Calcnit out, do you just reduce your PPM's?

 

[Mister_D]

So am i correct that 300 ppm of each is just a diluted form of 2g/2g?

After mulling this over a bit, I'm going to have to say no. It's not the same because adding equal amounts by weight does not give you the equal elemental EC/ppm for each. The weight is equal, but the EC/ppm added is not the same for both at the same weight (i.e if 2g of hydro gives you 0.6EC, then 2g of cal-nit only gives you 0.4 EC). That is just an example to illustrate my point, so don't take those as hard numbers. Easiest way to look at this is to type in guaranteed analysis for jacks hydro and cal-nit into the cannastats calculator, and look at the ppms from just 2g of jacks, then just 2g of cal-nit by themselves. You'll quickly see why you aren't getting the correct ratio.

2g/2g comes out to 3.75-1-4. When you cut the Calcnit out, do you just reduce your PPM's?

"2g/2g comes out to 3.75-1.4" No idea what you mean here? Talking about the ratio of one nute to another?

When the cal-nit is cut out, I "usually" just cut it out and ppm's are what they are. Meaning I add 2g of jacks per gal., and nothing else aside from ph adjuster. Depending on the cut in question I may alter that, and go half strength cal-nit for week or so before dropping, or maybe just hit it with a 1-2 time shot to boost if I feel I cut it too early. Or bump the jacks up if it's a particularly hungry plant. Ultimately you have to look at these recipes as a base to work off of, and come back too if you run into trouble. Every plant has individual needs. Take a successful recipe, follow it to the tee for a round, then make small adjustments, if needed, based on your individual plants reaction.

If you really prefer to mix from stock solutions, I suggest you download "hydrobuddy", and do a lil research on how to use it to mix proper stock solutions (i.e mix two solutions, one that 5ml per gal. is equal to adding 2g of jacks, another that 5ml per gal. equals 2g of cal-nit). An ex-member named spurr had an excellent thread on mixing dry salts DIY style with hydrobuddy. Can't find it atm, but if you do some digging I'm sure it's either in the nutrients sub-forum or the cannabis botany and advanced growing sub-forum. Here is another excellent source of information on nutes, jacks and similar mixes specifically.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=232715

 

[DabOnDabs]

Ok not sure that randomly making concentrates is a reliable method, though logically it seems like what your doing would work. What I do is figure out how many gallons I need mixed, and multiple that by two, then weigh however much that number is in grams on a digital scale..

Lol both of us keep editing out shit because it doesnt make sense, so im gonna go back and reply to it all;

About the concentrates; d9 suggests that using your ppm meter is the most accurate way to measure; I mean granted, its pretty hard to fuck up a 100gallon/200gram/200gram solution...BUT, in my case, I dont know exactly how many gallons are in my mixing tank where my float valve is set...Similarly, alot of people seem to have issues with the jacks/calcnit precipitating in the solution. The concentrate eliminates this 100% as far as im concerned

Also, you have said that you mix the calcnit first. In dizzlekush's thread he also suggests getting the alkalinity of your water set (mix tap/ro/ph down), then add caclnit..

I have always added jacks first, then calcnit; I must be doing that wrong, or does it matter when using a concentrated solution?

I'm gonna do some more tests today on the jacks; What 2 grams of each in 1 gallon is, and then 2 grams seperate in seperate gallons;

When i said 3.75-1-4, I meant the ratio of N-P-K within the 2g/2g mixture. A few pages back, i tried finiding it last night but i was either stoned, or blind or both, and couldnt find it; I posted a whole buncha npk ratios; The 2-2, 2-2 diluted to 1.2 ec, Lucas formula, h3ad formula, and modified h3ad formula for late flower.

Reading through the dizzlekush thread, it really seems like one recipe from veg-flower is the way to go. EVERY single plant tissue anaslysis i've seen doesnt show the HUGE change from standard veg formulas which are high in N, and lower in P, and K.

Im more convinced that the 3.75-1-4 for coco at 1.2-1.4 ec is where I need to be. I fucked this round up by using d9's recipe @1.5ec through stretch which caused the n tox and scared me away...300:300 is absolutely rockin it in my veg room

 

[hotboxes]

Looks great Dabs I just finished browsing threw your threads, I am a lil late but I am subbed for the remainder keep up the great work so far

 

[flat9]

Dabs so wait you're saying just use one nute profile the whole grow now? I've been a bit lost on the nutrients to be honest. I'm just running 3:2 Jacks:Calcinit as D9 suggested now, running about 1.3 EC. Doing coco in 2g geopots w/ blumats.

Mister_D you cut out N during flower?

 

[DabOnDabs]

I dont know man. Im just hypothesizing from what I'm seeing in my room, and some of the threads i've seen and some of the research that's been done.

Seems throughout its lifestyle, cannabis pretty much hovers around the same nute profile which is ~3-1-4. Needs to be tweaked a bit depending on medium, and strain, but check out that thread D posted last page. There are a ton of graphs with tissue analysis and stuff that shows that even tho there are certain spikes in a plants affinity for nutes, there is certainly what appears to be a baseline. Once you hit the baseline with a particular strain, i dont see what altering the recipe and jamming it full of shit that it clearly doesnt need is the thing to do.

I think D cuts it out, or tapers it off for some strains.

As far as the D9 Recipe in coco..Its a little high in K. Coco needs more N and Ca because of its inherent properties.

That recipe is for inert medium such as floor dry or turface. We're all a little bit lost on the nutrients. Its a shit show out there. It all comes down to experience IMO. just gotta figure out what works for you. If you dont like one thing, or fuck one thing up, fix it the next time. I'm a second guesser so my problems are hopeless. Just when i think ive got it nailed i second guess myself.

I'm the same way in school. Prepare for a test like a mother fucker...get a C. Barely study, get an A. I'm pretty good at deducing bullshit from the rest, but god forbid I actually know what I'm doing..then its my own bullshit that needs deducing.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Looks great Dabs I just finished browsing threw your threads, I am a lil late but I am subbed for the remainder keep up the great work so far

Better late than never. Thanks for taking the time to read through all of my b.s. lol.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Thank you Spurr, Tester, Fatman etc. from the "Hemp (Cannabis sativa L) tissue nutrient analysis data" forum. Note than some minerals are expressed in the oxidated form in the last 2 charts, making their ppm seem higher than actuality.

Observations:

In vegetative growth plants require slightly more N than K. In bloom these roles reverse but they maintain the role of 1st & 2nd most required nutrients.

Throughout all phases of growth Ca is the 3rd most required nutrient, but its required levels slowly drop throughout the entire bloom phase (more so than N or any other element it seems)

P is the fourth most required nutrient and it's requirements increase as bloom continues, but even as Ca demand decreases and P demand increases, P demand is unlikely to rise to levels greater than Ca demand.

Mg and S demands remain relatively equal to each other, and seem to have relatively similar levels of requirement throughout veg and bloom. Mg, S, and P demands are very similar in vegetative growth.

Si content is fairly low, similiar to Fe content, which would essentially make Si a micronutrient.

Levels of Mn and Zinc are very high, more than half of that of Fe. Cannabis is an Mn accumulator, so it cannot be said for sure whether the Fe:Mn ratio should be desired.

this is the most informative picture i have ever seen when it comes to growing dope. Save this ish.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=183572&d=1348187954

 

[flat9]

Thanks for the info. I'm switching to the PPKs next run anyway and at this stage the girls look fairly happy overall, though two of my eight got attacked by spider mites which I mistook for mag deficiency due to the yellowing... until the webs showed up!). I sprayed the fuckers three times with Kapow over a week and it killed them.... and it was early into flower, so I got lucky. Definitely made me by an air intake filter, but I digress.

Anyway, the ones that didn't get touched by the mites look very happy with 3:2 in coco, so I don't want to change it. Running a bunch of strains to see what I like before doing big plants in the PPKs. The lemon kush and blue Thai took a mite beating, where as the Phantom cookies, GSC, Chem '91, Apple Jack, Mendo Purps, Deep Cheese are in great shape, and all those seem to be loving 3:2 with no signs of calmag deficiencies and definitely no nitrogen toxicity (pretty normal shade of green). So if you know anything about those strains, take that into account if you consider 3:2 again...

 

[papaduc]

Nooo.... not the nutes again...

You and your bleedin ratios... I thought I was bad.

The jacks, is it a one part powder? How does it come and what's the prep guide?

Lookin good btw. Starting to swell nice in there.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Lmao i know i know. Its ridiculous isnt it!?

I guess we have you, mister d, d9, lucas, h3ad, etc. etc. 100000 others who all have found a way to get it done to thank. Haha. Its a shit show i know.

 

[DabOnDabs]

i'm a shit show...

 

[DabOnDabs]

Nooo.... not the nutes again...

You and your bleedin ratios... I thought I was bad.

The jacks, is it a one part powder? How does it come and what's the prep guide?

Lookin good btw. Starting to swell nice in there.

Jacks itself is a one part powder. Combined with Calcnit its two parts.

The mixing instructions are a bit confusing. They give instructions on the package for a stock solution. They also say you can just disolve it in water, part by part. I think i just need to consolidate my information, and then email/call them and see what they say. They'd know best. Are they friendly with our industry, or is that a huge red flag?

 

[papaduc]

You don't need to give personal details and if you are talking to them talk about tomatoes. They're very similar to cannabis in their requirements through both stages of growth.

So the calcnit is optional then?
Does it come with a pk booster?