cotton roots - evidence of harm?

[Mindovermatter]

hey as you may know I have been battling what seemed to be root rot for about a week and been raving about it on this forum. Today I cut the pots up even more and could see some new nice roots forming through the coco, but they seemed to be of the "cotton" kind so, what am I to think now? I have root rot + bacillus subtilis?

Should I h202 them again? flush them? what? pls tell me.

 

[Mindovermatter]

I am thinking about doing something drastic, like remove the whole bottom coco part of the media. Can someone confirm anything ive said?

 

[sproutco]

I thought the plants were improving with the increased nutrients? Add h2o2 according to the directions in that website posted previously. "cotton roots" sounds normal if small little white hairs are coming off the main roots. Quit tinkering with those plants and see what happens over several more days. Increasing nutes to 500 ppm may be a option in the very near future.

 

[Mindovermatter]

Sproutco:
The plants are slightly improving but there are definetly still problems. Some of the leaves, the mid leaves have turned black on the edges. One leaf has something that looked like a white snot on the leaf and it slowly turned yellow brown, but is still moist.

The roots, the ones in the coco there are many who are yellow to brown colored. They dont seem to be growing much roots. The new roots are kinda fluffy like cotton on them. The temps are good tho. I dipped them again today into the h202 and changed res. They are now 2 inch above water level but since the pots were cut open I can clearly see water drops forming on the coco. I also changed airstone to a huge 16" one like you recommended, cant say it really make a different; fewer bubbles and more spaced. I'll get some pics coming tonight so you can see what I am talking about.

 

[Mindovermatter]

btw - does light in the DWC cause pythium or make it easier for it to survive? my bucket isnt lightproof..but I change the res every day ...

Please someone write something!

 

[rastamonunika]

gotta lightproof --



light+oxygen+nutes = algae . . .


dunno about ur root rot or other problems friend, but definately cover those buckets up =)




lots of Love and Light
unika

 

[sproutco]

Ok. You wanted more help. I have been straightning out alot of nutrition problems it seems lately. Lets figure out exactly what the plants are recieving in parts per million. You need to get your fert bottle and figure out the net weight of the contents, ml used per gallon (3.8L) of water, and % of the elements included like 2.5% calcium. If you can find these numbers we can come up with close to perfect nutrients using a calculator and comparing this to target levels for mj. Here is where to find the calculator and the target levels. http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm You must do some reading and figuring on your own. Report back what you find. Take a look at calcium def thread in the cannabis infirmary by shroomdr and see what steps he took to achieve a better nutrient solution. Maybe this will solve the mystery of the black leaves or whatever.

 

[Mindovermatter]

Sproutco, I really dont think it has something with the nutes to do. I add mag to the solution, and use of one the top brand nutes.

Here are a couple of pictures I just took. Also there are pics of the dwc itself...

Many more pics in my gallery for those interested.

 

[sproutco]

Are the margins/edges of the leaves getting wavy? Like undulating? Not straight but moving up and down as you look across it? You hate it when gooey stuff comes around. Time for drinking. :friends: Answer this question and I will check back a little later for the answer.

you can see the wavyness in these leaves. notice the bleached areas. Click on it to enlarge.

 

[Mindovermatter]

hmm well they were before, but arent now. What does that mean?

The white snot/gooey stuff I think is the pythium, or what is it?

The veins of the leafs are red-colored...?

 

[sproutco]

hmm well they were before, but arent now. What does that mean?

The white snot/gooey stuff I think is the pythium, or what is it?

The veins of the leafs are red-colored...?

With white spots on the leaves and undulating margins, I would think zinc deficiency. But with red veins, I might lean toward phosphorus deficiency. Might match up with the black color you saw earlier on the leaves. Seems like, if i am not mistaken, mynamestitch said the same thing. Root trouble. Too cold, too wet, low oxygen, too little ferts with phos., imbalance in your ferts like too much calcium (this could come from your water initially), high ph, etc...Could be nitrogen but this would fall prey to the root problem symptoms too because its in your ferts. Maybe too little ferts or change the conditions.

To be honest, I think this whole bubbler grow sounds bad. I would try a soilless mix grow using peatmoss, bark, perlite, etc... and get a good grow in instead of fooling with trying to get this growing style right. F%^& it.

 

[Babbabud]

clones

clones

cut clones while the plants are still healthy enough. It is against the rules to ask for seeds or clones.

 

[Mindovermatter]

oh I didnt know that will I get banned now?
Well is it a good idea to take clones from mothers with pythium? Wont they pass it on?
Well I just ordered some Mycorrhizal fungi ... hope it will help.

 

[Mindovermatter]

Todays update:

Dipped them again in H2O2 for 10 minutes at twice the adviced concentration (10ml 17,5%) in 5L. Removed as much pyrhium roots that I could. Then putt them back into bubbler, only this time theres no water! Just the moist they got from the soaking...the leafs coming up are pointing straight up vertically. Hope this is a good sign. The myrcorrhizal will arrive in a couple of days...

Can stitch or someone give me any feedback?

 

[MynameStitch]

where did the white gooey stuff come from? the only thing i could think of is some got on it from the bucket

if your buckets are not light proofed you HAVE TO alge growth wil start and choke the roots! trust me it has happend to me


even if you control the temps your buckets have to be light proofed

can you take some more pictures of them now?

roots and the plants itself?
what problems are the plants having now?

Hey sproutco, that doesnt look like a zinc deficiency, zinc starts on on the outter egde like that but its not that color, its got a brighter green tint, like light light lime green an d only stays on the outer edge of the leaves all the way around the leaves never protruding inwards, that picture looks like its heat stress which curled the leaves from radiant heat to much direct light heat issues

ive never seen a zinc deficiency in hydro, only 3 have i seen and all to be in soil issues.......

 

[sproutco]

Hey sproutco, that doesnt look like a zinc deficiency, zinc starts on on the outter egde like that but its not that color, its got a brighter green tint, like light light lime green an d only stays on the outer edge of the leaves all the way around the leaves never protruding inwards, that picture looks like its heat stress which curled the leaves from radiant heat to much direct light heat issues

ive never seen a zinc deficiency in hydro, only 3 have i seen and all to be in soil issues.......

Yes but notice my picture has those wavy margins. I wondered the other day if the picture you have in the complete guide is really zinc def. Did somebody starve the plants of zinc in order to get the picture? Do you know for sure? Seems like the same type of plant may be able to show different symptoms like bleached areas one time and shriveled brown spots the next. This is from your complete guide in the cannabis infirmary:

Zinc deficiencies on some plants will have the Spotting and bleached spots (chlorosis) between the veins first appears on the older leaves first, and then goes on to the immature leaves. It will then start to slowly affect tips of growing points of the plants. When the zinc deficiency happens so suddenly, the spotting can appear to be the same symptoms to that of an iron and manganese, without the seeing the little leaf symptom.
Zinc is not mobile in plants so the symptoms will occur mainly in the newer growths. Having a plant that is deficiency in Zinc can cause small crops, short shoots and have a cluster of small distorted leaves near the tips. Between the veins (Interveinal) yellowing is often combined with overall paleness. Pale or grayish, yellowing between the veins; rosetted weak is the signs of a Zinc deficiency.
With a low level of zinc in your plants, your yields will be dramatically reduced.
Interveinal chlorosis is present in the small, narrow distorted leaves at the ends of really shortened shoots and the shortening between internodes. Leaf margins are often distorted or wrinkled. These nutrients will get locked out due to high pH: Zinc, Iron, and Manganese. These deficiencies will often occur together. Parts affected by a zinc deficiency are young leaves and petioles.

 

[Mindovermatter]

where did the white gooey stuff come from? the only thing i could think of is some got on it from the bucket

if your buckets are not light proofed you HAVE TO alge growth wil start and choke the roots! trust me it has happend to me


even if you control the temps your buckets have to be light proofed

can you take some more pictures of them now?

roots and the plants itself?
what problems are the plants having now?

Hey sproutco, that doesnt look like a zinc deficiency, zinc starts on on the outter egde like that but its not that color, its got a brighter green tint, like light light lime green an d only stays on the outer edge of the leaves all the way around the leaves never protruding inwards, that picture looks like its heat stress which curled the leaves from radiant heat to much direct light heat issues

ive never seen a zinc deficiency in hydro, only 3 have i seen and all to be in soil issues.......

I dont know where the goo came from, one day it was just there. It was like snot ... so I immediately correlated it with the pythium.

Well the plants aren't having much problems except they grow slowly, and the roots keep getting yellow-brown and slimy... and the roots arent growing into the tank as its supposed to...cause the tank and the airstone makes it misty in there I guess they are happy just staying in the coco? (see pics on page 1 for illustration)

Seems no one saw I asked about Mycorrhizal fungi and whether it may aid in my setup.

I'll take some more pics tomorrow.

Right now I am thinking about giving them a few more days and see how it goes.If it dosent go well I'll take clones and hope for the best, but it seems my plants are still far too small to take clones from?

Sproutco: I dont have wavy leafs ...

 

[Mindovermatter]

Update:
Alright now when these "argh! plants" have been in the bubbler for about 10 days I have good news; all have doubled in size from 3 to 6 inch during this time, it seems they are growing by an average of 1cm (0.4") a day now (what are normal growth rates or goals?). I notice a lot of what sproutco mentioned earlier about purple stems and can tell my plants fit that very well, except the good news that the new growth is mostly green and only have some very tiny purple. I have handwatered them with nutes 2 times the past 10 days. I handwatered them yesterday and things are looking good. One plant that was really yellow has gotten back some green color, and the others are also looking good. The leaves dont droop so much anymore but stand straight out. and feel I shouldnt water more for a couple of days to get the rockwool dry.

Can someone tell me how often and how much I should water in rockwool?


Theres also some new nice white roots with lots of other tiny roots on the coco between the solution and them hanging out in the air but most have not yet hit the water. There is definetly some yellowing of the roots going on as I watch older roots getting yellow. My Air pump puts out 1500cc/min for a 4 gallon bucket which is only filled with not even 2 gallons. Still I have put frigolit* on top and cut holes for the bins buckets things (see pictures below) and I havent made it airtight so I think maybe the roots dont get full potential of the airpump not to mention they are not in the water and it makes me stressed too. Can someone confirm this - if you dont make dwc airtight you lose the airpump effects?





Frigolite*: http://www.icmag.com/ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=252255&sort=1&cat=500

This is the the dwc, you can see the bottom is coco. And the top is rockwool.

 

[Mindovermatter]

Someone mentioned that roots dont like light thats why I have I am wondering if the roots dont hit the bucket because its too light in there? (its not lightproof)

 

[sproutco]

Someone mentioned that roots dont like light thats why I have I am wondering if the roots dont hit the bucket because its too light in there? (its not lightproof)

Thats possible. This is from wikipedia.

Phototropism is directional growth, particularly in plants, in which the direction of growth is determined by the direction of the light source. It was formerly called heliotropism. Phototropism is one of the many plant tropisms or movements in response to external stimuli. Growth toward a light source is a positive phototropism, while growth away from light is called negative phototropism. Most plant shoots exhibit positive phototropism, while roots usually exhibit negative phototropism, although gravitropism may play a larger role in root behavior and growth. Some vine shoot tips exhibit negative phototropism, which allows them to grow toward dark, solid objects and climb them.

Phototropism in plants such as Arabidopsis thaliana is regulated by blue light receptors called phototropins. Other photosensitive receptors in plants include phytochromes that sense red light and cryptochromes that sense blue light. Different organs of the plant may exhibit different phototropic reactions to different wavelengths of light. Stem tips exhibit positive phototropic reactions to blue light, while root tips exhibit negative phototropic reactions to blue light. Both root tips and most stem tips exhibit positive phototropism to red light.