Colchicine....What's your opinion?

[Clackamas Coot]

Capt

Is this DMSO product the stuff that people were using 30+ years ago for a myriad of reasons which was surrounded by a lot of controversy?

For some reason that term, DMSO, rings a bell.

Just curious as usual.

CC

 

[guest2012y]

Capt

Is this DMSO product the stuff that people were using 30+ years ago for a myriad of reasons which was surrounded by a lot of controversy?

For some reason that term, DMSO, rings a bell.

Just curious as usual.

CC

YES....people used to mix pain killers with it since it breaks the cell wall instantly.

 

[guest2012y]

Not only that,but it is dangerous in the way that it can carry pathogens as well. As a last resort end to serious pain.....I would do it if it was the final option.

 

[secondtry]

Hey Capt.

I DON'T RECOMMEND ANYONE TRY THIS PRACTICE. Leave it to professionals.

That is why I like the use of the mutagen "oryzalin", not colchicine. Oryzalin is much less toxic for us to use (with normal precaution like gloves, etc). Oryzalin is much more effective in interrupting normal mitosis in rapidly dividing cells than is colchicine.

Oryzalin has much greater success rates of tetrploidy and greater survival rates to vs. colchicine.

I plan so dissolve oryzalin (sold as "Surflan AS") into warm iso alcohol (70% or 91%) and mix into with water at a ratio of 0.005-0.01%. Then soak seeds for 14 hours in water, than put seeds in oryzalin mix and leave until seed shell starts to crack. I also thought about using scarification methods to weaken the shell before I start soaking the seeds.



Check out these links, they are just two of dozens I have:

1. About oryzalin (use and dilution info, etc):
http://www.members.tripod.com/h_syriacus/tetraploidy.htm



2. Thesis paer:

"Development of tetraploids lines of Cannabis sativa L. for the production of plants for therapeutic use"

(anyone can translate from Italian to English for us?...it's only 90 pages )

http://www.tesionline.com/intl/thesis.jsp?idt=22695

Abstract

Polyploids plants of Cannabis sativa L., obtained by the treatment of the hypocotyls with 0,1% solution of colchicine, were analyzed trough gas-chromatography.

The polyploidization has engraved on the quantitative level but not on the qualitative level of cannabinoids, confirming the category chemical-phenotype (chemotype) of the genotype of departure.

Tetraploid progeny, derived by the genomic mutant DE7, have shown a significant increase of the specific (higher) cannabinoid, in particular a plant has recorded an increase equal to 1246% and in another plant equal to 303%.

The motivations that justify the study of tetraploids plants of Cannabis sativa L. are fundamentally linked to the economically sustainable production of plants to therapeutic use in protected environment, to elevated standardization qualitative and quantitative of phytocannabinoids.

The employment of tetraploids plants, for the production of phytotherapeutic, would make easier to control the production, the organization and the diffusion of the crop, allowing so to the investors (agencies and pharmaceutical industries) the protection of the copyright.

In fact, obtaining tetraploids lines (2n=4x=40) would allow the production, through the cross with diploids lines (2n=2x=20) already available, of triploid hybrid (2n=3x=30) more or less barren, with a double advantage:

1) plants thus obtained cannot destine assimilated to the formation of seeds, but will continue to produce flowers, that are the part richest in glandular trichomes where secondary metabolites accumulate;

2) the sterility avoid the risk of subtraction and illegal derivation of the patented materials.​

This work has the purpose to bring a contribution to the knowledge of the fittest modality of induction of the polyploidy in hemp and effects on morpho-physiological and qualitative traits.

 

[guest2012y]

Cool deal,.........I'll check into it in a bit........I'm just limited on work space,so to engage in a project like this would overpower my space at the moment. Figured I'd see what the overall internet grower community had to say about it. I can't say that I will give up on the idea,but I understand breeding enough to selectively pick and choose what I'm after,(even if that includes making a monster of some sort). I guess the idea is to have an organic monster. Thanx for the info. I'll look into it.

 

[secondtry]

NOTE:

That thesis talks about making triploid (3N) and tetrploid (4N). We DO NOT want to make triploid, they are almost always inferior to diploids and tetraploids and they are also infertile...this is the inferior type of triploid HortraPharm BV breeds...shame on them!!!

We want tetraploids, not triploids.

 

[guest2012y]

NOTE:

That thesis talks about making triploid (3N) and tetrploid (4N). We DO NOT want to make triploid, they are almost always inferior to diploids and tetraploids and they are also infertile...this is the inferior type of triploid HortraPharm BV breeds...shame on them!!!

We want tetraploids, not triploids.

Noted

 

[secondtry]

Capt:

Your welcome. I would suggest you listen to me on this topic, not other cannabis growers unless they know what they are writing about. Most growers simply repeat what they have heard about ploidy and using colchicine, and everything I have ever read by growers (ex. BCGA) is not correct. And no one ever talks about the need to verify it is really a tetraploid...

I am going to start trials in a few months, maybe 6 or more. I would love to see your progress. And if you want to send me some leafs (fresh cut and placed in a sealed bag in a cold cooler) I could look at the stomatal density for you.

 

[guest2012y]

Capt:

Your welcome. I would suggest you listen to me on this topic, not other cannabis growers unless they know what they are writing about. Most growers simply repeat what they have heard about ploidy and using colchicine, and everything I have ever read by growers (ex. BCGA) is not correct. And no one ever talks about the need to verify it is really a tetraploid...

I am going to start trials in a few months, maybe 6 or more. I would love to see your progress. And if you want to send me some leafs (fresh cut and placed in a sealed bag in a cold cooler) I could look at the stomatal density for you.

Great,I may take you up on that eventually....space,time,time,and more time. I have to gather my genetics,selectively breed for what I think I want to see,(and honestly,what do I want?...I think it's a matter of what do most people want),get those F3's out and select from those final results before treatment of the seeds. Then maybe select from those offspring.......I don't think I want to treat seeds until I have the original genetic traits come to the surface.

 

[ixnay007]

I speak italian if you need some translations on certain parts.. too much of a lazy stoner to do 90 pages though.

 

[mad librettist]

Jesus, you guys are organic gardeners.

Employ the precautionary principal, please! That's a lesson of history, not science.

No it's not organic to use any substance that turns your shit green or mutates plants, regardless of its source. Nor is GMO cannabis, or any any other whacky stuff people dream of.

hint: if you have to wear rubber gloves, a paper suit, and all the other protective gear to handle it, it probably doesn't belong in an organic garden. Go ahead, tell yourself it's "just applied to the first generation". But remember you probably came to organic growing because you have seen what this attitude has done to our environment and our health.

 

[kopite]

hint: if you have to wear rubber gloves, a paper suit, and all the other protective gear to handle it, it probably doesn't belong in an organic garden.

Damn I'm really screwed then as I have to wear that to just get near my plants with my allergies.....

 

[mad librettist]

you are allergic to cannabis? and it causes a systemic reaction because you are hyper-sensitive?

just who are you growing for? or is it only fresh plants that trigger your life-threatening allergy?

I would never bring poison ivy into my home...

 

[kopite]

you are allergic to cannabis?

as a plant yes.... I get a reaction like hayfeather but worse.. even with just female plants, but obviously far worse with males when the pollen drops.. it has but me in hosi before....

 

[mad librettist]

well every rule has an exception. Consider me corrected, with thanks.

wait, wait! I was clever, and left wiggle room by saying "probably".

Don't know if this helps, but I have a fish allergy and have found that vinegar takes hives from skin contact right down. And I never carry the epipen, but opt for cetirizine HCl. It is an active metabolite, so no waiting for your liver. Keeps me out of the hospital.

Also, it's weird, but certain fish I can eat if they are completely desiccated, like bonito flakes and iriko, which is a dried sardine I think. Just like you and cannabis.

 

[guest2012y]

Jesus, you guys are organic gardeners.

Employ the precautionary principal, please! That's a lesson of history, not science.

No it's not organic to use any substance that turns your shit green or mutates plants, regardless of its source. Nor is GMO cannabis, or any any other whacky stuff people dream of.

hint: if you have to wear rubber gloves, a paper suit, and all the other protective gear to handle it, it probably doesn't belong in an organic garden. Go ahead, tell yourself it's "just applied to the first generation". But remember you probably came to organic growing because you have seen what this attitude has done to our environment and our health.

This is my issue with the practice as well Mad. I'm just throwing it out there to see what the overall organic opinion is. Chances are a lot of the strains we smoke have been treated this way and we grow them organically with no trace of the mutagen at all except the examination of the tissue itself. GMO???? not exactly,manipulated...yes.

 

[secondtry]

Hey Capt.

I disagree, I think zero varieties we grow today are human created polyploids. But those bred by HoraPharm BV most certainly are. I have yet to read accounts from cannabis growers who know what they are writing about in terms of how to create a tetraploid, cannabis growers and breeders tend to rely on hearsay, not science. Although, you seem to know what's up with the dangers of DMSO, how to make tetraploid, etc, so I am not including you in that statement.

 

[secondtry]

P.s.

If smoking cannabis or extracts grown from a plant whose parents where mutated with colchicine is dangerous than GW Pharmaceutics THC spray "Sativex" would be killing people or making them sick by the thousands! And I assume David Waston would be dead by now, or very ill as I am sure he as smoked his mutated cannabis flowers...

 

[guest2012y]

Hey Capt.

I disagree, I think zero varieties we grow today are human created polyploids. But those bred by HoraPharm BV most certainly are. I have yet to read accounts from cannabis growers who know what they are writing about in terms of how to create a tetraploid, cannabis growers and breeders tend to rely on hearsay, not science. Although, you seem to know what's up with the dangers of DMSO, how to make tetraploid, etc, so I am not including you in that statement.

You don't think that somewhere some of these guys have messed with this stuff? I know people who have,but they have not the means to tell what they are....I'm sure they are out there somewhere yet lay unidentified.....I guess you have the means to tell...have you checked some of this stuff out?

 

[secondtry]

Also, considering these two famous cannabis guys are the main team behind HortaPharm BV they too would be dead or ill form smoking said cannabis:

And SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on Robert Clark, David Pate and David Waston for making inferior cannabis mutants just so they can patent it and prevent us from making seeds, just so they can make buck...fuck them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HortaPharm BV corporate structure:


Robert Clarke
Projects Manager

David Pate
Secretary

David Watson
Chairman