coco+wick+gh flora nova=never dump run-off|pdg’s imaginary/enjoyable garden

[Blaat]

The idea is to let the wicks do exactly that, wick. By filling the bottom container with a mixture of water and nutes, the wick will deliver the mixture to the medium on the mediums/plants schedule, not the humans. It also allows for a little less hassle in most applications I believe.

Thanks man, you cleared the concept right up for me. Anything special needed to be done compared to regular CoCo growing feeding wise?

 

[Chem&M]

Thanks man, you cleared the concept right up for me. Anything special needed to be done compared to regular CoCo growing feeding wise?

Well, if you've seen my question for Mistress, you'll see there are PH issues to contend with. I wounder if it isn't the wicks, but I soak mine in the nute solution before hand.

So as far as I'm aware, nothing you shouldn't already be familiar with if you know coco, but again, I'm here asking questions to so I'm not expert. Hopefully someone else will chime in soon.

In the meantime, I just emptied my rez's.

 

[delta9nxs]

I just want say that a wick can function at least 2 different ways. One is as a drain only. The other is as a drain and a nutrient solution supply. If you are going to use it as a supply you need to keep the level of your reservoir as high as possible under your grow container while still maintaining an air gap. You can control the moisture profile in your medium by raising or lowering your reservoir level. I've been letting mine start with a 1” air gap and then fall 2” before topping again. The plants seem to like it.

Also i've been top watering 3 times per week with about ½ gal in a 5 gal container. There's something about keeping the top of the medium moist that helps grow a better plant. I think it has to do with the medium's capillary capability. moist versus dry.

If you grow in a properly set up wick equipped device your plants will never suffer moisture stress.
Research has demonstrated that each instance of wilt does some amount of permanent damage to yield.

Later d9

 

[*mistress*]

Hey Mistress, I wanted to send you a PM, but couldn't get it to work with you. I would like your advice, and though this is the middle of a thread, I know you check it.

I'm sorry for the interuption.

Anyways,


I have a wick system using nylon like you suggested. I am going out of town for a week, so this seemed the best option. Anyway they are both coco/hydroton mixed and seem to be working well.

The problem is PH rising. I use Fox Farm and add Hygrozyme, Cal/Mag, and B.Strap. I though maybe there wasn't enough air movement, so I put air stones in both containers. Now the problem is worse.

@ Chem&M...
what avg ph of input solution?
what is avg output (run-off) of solution?

never used fox farm.
air movement not issue. what is input ph?

if media run-off over 6.5 ph, maybe feed @ 5.0 -5.5 ph.

Why is this happening and how do I fix it? I like the ease of a wick, but at this point it's more work to change the rez every day.

maybe what happening explained here

Nutrient Binding
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3151227&postcount=6

... nitrate nitrogen making ph rise... or, organic ferts making ph rise...etc

fixed by input solution @ 5.0-5.5 ph... distilled white vinegar add no mineral & lower ph w/ ~1 capfull per 5 gal solution.

the h202 will not lower ph, & may in fact encourage some microbial activity... molasses want to setle @ ~6.0-6.2 ph... 1 tsp vinegar (apple cider, or white) lower to 5.5-5.7.

another concentrated ph-down juice erth bloom. very good @ lowering ph, w/ 1 tbsp/5 gal solution.

maybe, start w/ gh nutes... ph'd to 5.5-5.8... no more than 6.0.
Help? Please? [/QUOTE]

I notice this to sometimes Chem&M.. I put it down to the molasses, and most likely in your case the organics in the fox farms nutes.. If you add sugar to organic material such ewc, guano which believe fox farms adds to their nutrients you eventually get biological activity going on in the res. The organic teas I've made through the years always start with a low ph, then slowly rise, and rise as the biological activity in the tea increases. The addition of the oxygen from the air pump you added just speeds up this process..

Curious to hear what the mistress suggests, but I'm pretty sure if your not using h2o2 yet that's where she tell you start.. Hydrogen peroxide should prevent some the nasties in the rez, which should help with the ph spikes, but IME when using organics/organic additives the res just needs to be changed/cleaned more often.

h202 wont lower ph... may inhibit some microbe activity/eggs, but maybe make ph climb more than decrease.

I do have a small amount of regular G.H. Flora, Bloom, Micro if that's better. I can leave out the molasses.

gh work ...

also, matters how add suplements to solution...
if add molasses 1st... ~1/3 total volume of solution. then add gh nutes, while stirring/agitating...

fwiw, gh 'bloom' nutes usually lower ph than the 'grow' nutes.

example on mixing nutrients:
1) fill container 1/3 water.
2) dissolve each fertilizer separately in hot water.
3) add potassium nitrate & potassium sulfate.
4) fill container 3/4 w/ water.
5) next, add magnesium sulfate & mono-potassium phosphate.
6) while slowly adding calcium nitrate, stir well.
7) test & adjust ph to 5.8-6.4.
8) add iron chelate & top up tank to full volume.

so... do this in imagination w/ , k+ nit & cal nit & bloom-maxi. +1 tbsp go bio thrive, then adjust ph down...

so, whatever nutes, maybe add ph-down last. most organic 1st... best to just include little full organic nute, like, maybe alfalfa meal, into media before.... maybe 1 tbsp/5 gal. then striaght gh fert salts... the g.o line good for kierserite & alfalfa meal-based

I've never run the GH line. I've run their GO, but nut wicking This is my first wick-system.

the go line really have higher ph... usually 6.3+... they recommend not lower ph, but certain nutes assimilate @ certain ph. dont see how g.o. line change this fact. so, lower ph either by ej bloom, or vinegar, or slightly more gh bloom nute.

also, the camg+ really get to higher ph (6.2+)... though mg seem avaialble more @ lower ph...

maybe prior new solution, flush medium good, so start w/ clean ph'd solution @ 5.5 or so. or, 5.0 or so... they love acid, too!

I notice this to sometimes Chem&M.. I put it down to the molasses, and most likely in your case the organics in the fox farms nutes.. If you add sugar to organic material such ewc, guano which believe fox farms adds to their nutrients you eventually get biological activity going on in the res. The organic teas I've made through the years always start with a low ph, then slowly rise, and rise as the biological activity in the tea increases. The addition of the oxygen from the air pump you added just speeds up this process..

Curious to hear what the mistress suggests, but I'm pretty sure if your not using h2o2 yet that's where she tell you start.. Hydrogen peroxide should prevent some the nasties in the rez, which should help with the ph spikes, but IME when using organics/organic additives the res just needs to be changed/cleaned more often.

good post!

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[Chem&M]

THANK YOU!!!


So, I took out the air stones and flushed with PH'd Hygrozyme and then mixed up the GH line. Even in that the PH drift was a bit high, so I just took out the air stones. Do you think I should be able to leave them for a week?

Thanks Mistress. I normally try to stick to organics, but I'm trying to use the random odds & ends I have around so they don't go to waste.

Any other advice is appreciated.

 

[*mistress*]

.....


enjoy your garden!

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

Enjoy your garden Mistress...... I have a build thread growing and a grow as an ancillary this time and find your advice come up in post after post that helps. Positive vibes...... check out my thread if you have any advice I would be stoked.

You posses a very expansive knowledge base.

Cheers
GS

 

[Strangely]

Just a quick one...

only 'hydro' shop requirements seem to be nute(s). 1 bottle of gh flora nova bloom (4-8-7)

Continuing my non-hydro shop direction I'm attempting to go in, would a 5-5-5 nute be ok? It's just rereading your kind replies Flora Nova doesn't seem to be a million miles off. I would be going straight to flower (either from seed of a revegged plant). Could always add the odd bit of nitrogen from my personal (bladder!) reserves!?

Thanks in advance Mistress (or anyone else chiming in for that matter)!

 

[*mistress*]

yes...

1-1-1 npk ratios seem to work well...
but, 1-2-2 ratio seems best.

however, remember that phosphorus is reported, from:
calculating npk/nutrient profile
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=134356

P2O5*0.437=actual P
K2O x 0.83 = actual K

so... that would make the 5-5-5 nute, actually:

5-2-4...

maybe little low on phosphorus, which easily leaches from media...
& plant seem to like in flowering.

as fnb is actually:

4-3.4-5.8...

maybe go for a 15-30-30, or 1-2-2 type fertilizer... should be available @ most nurseries.
orchid (& other ornamental) growers seem to like dyna-bloom 3-12-6...

urine not that effective... maybe not.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

only issue w/ some nursery ferts is the nitrogen is in ammounium, or urea form, when what is desired in nitrate nitrogen, or nitrate n, w/ 8:2-9:1 ratio of nitrate:ammonium, or n03-:nh4...

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[Strangely]

maybe go for a 15-30-30, or 1-2-2 type fertilizer... should be available @ most nurseries.

Ok will do.

urine not that effective... maybe not.

Ok wont do!

Cheers, as ever, for the advice!

 

[Strangely]

UK store website B&Q has tomorite which is NPK: 4-4.5-8 any good do you think? And they've got some orchid compost that sounds good... Bark, perlite etc

 

[*mistress*]

.....

 

[*mistress*]

@ Strangely...

t0m0rite
nitrogen total - 4%
ureic nitrogen - 2.8%
phosphoric pentoxide 4.5 % (2% actual p)
potassium oxide 8% (6.6% actual k)

as suspected, there is urea nitrogen source... @ 2.8%....
want nitrate, or nitrate-heavy nitrogen form in hydro-type nutrient solutions...

so, actual npk #'s that plant use are
1.2% n (unknown form of nitrogen, other than ureic)...
2% phosphorus
6.6 % potassium

what other options available?

 

[RiddleMeThis]

Not sure if this has been covered, pretty sure I read through all pages of thread... How tall is the bucket setup? 5 gallon bucket is ~15" tall, does the 4 gallon add any height to the 5gallon?

 

[*mistress*]

~5-8cm

 

[RiddleMeThis]

This is a diagram I drew up of the setup I plan on using. Without the screen, the entire setup will be 15". Forgot to draw the holes for the wicks, but those will be placed according to your instructions.

Thoughts?

 

[*mistress*]

usually, this set-up use 4 gal square buckets/pails, which fit snug into 5 gal round buckets/pails...

however...

if seek same design w/ smaller volume containers... there are 2 gal square buckets/pails, which fit snugly into 3.5 gallon bucket/pails...
same amount of ~8cm lip from square pail, resting on circular edge of 3.5 gallon bucket...

usually there same dimension (volume) buckets can be found @ same places posted ^...for free.. bakeries & donut shops will usually have the smaller buckets... as they hold confections, etc... while the larger buckets hold mayonnaise, etc.. for general food condiments.
2 gal square bucket maybe little difficult to find, but if already have 3 that fit into 3, !... use whatever have/can... pails, buckets, jugs, thermoses, etc, etc...

as for screen... absolutely no moments ever using screen/scrog... maybe other member/s help there.

prefer to get genetics strong w/ silicon, etc.. & veg until plant 1 cubic meter of canopy/mass. this make large trunk & thick stems... to support large fruit...
used stakes, & diy tomato cage w/ stake+duct tape, but never screen/scrog... just too much in way of unrestricted plant growth. but work for some...

example of successful scrog/screen. other quality points of that garden, but the screens seem quite efficient, there, too:
Petemoss' Bio Buckets
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=15121

as for the holes... if using rigid plastic buckets, maybe drill as many holes as possible, like this:

from:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1296652&postcount=4
for aeration & drainage... as the wick keeps drainage useful, by drawing it up into top bucket.

polyester/nylon rope (~1.25cm, or >)... @ 1-4 pieces per bucket, seem to work.
maybe, as is in thread, extend wick thru media, diag-vertically, & out into basin (outer bucket)...

water until slight run-off, & should be able to go 1-3 days w/out watering again... or, until the wick draws up most-all water (run-off)... repeat, repeat.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[RiddleMeThis]

Awesome, thanks tons for the info. Answered a lot of questions I forgot to ask! Psychic mistress? +rep

 

[Strangely]

Thanks for having a look mistress. I'll try and find something else more suitable on the B&Q site. I've a feeling I'll have to 'bite the bullet' and go for a proper nute like FloraNova or A&B. Like you reccomend in the first post!

 

[*mistress*]

coco:
ph - 6.1-6.5
ec - 260
total organic matter - 96-98%
cellulose - 20-30 w/w%
sodium - 78mg/l
potassium - 210 mg/l
calcium - .50mg/l
ammonium - .40mg/l
chloride - 70mg/l
sulfate - 11mg/l
carbon:nitrogen ration - 80:1
air-filled porosity - 9.5-12.5%
total pore space - 93-95%
lignin - 60-70 w/w dry%
phosphorus - 4-8mg/l
mag - 4-6mg/l
fe - 5-8mg/l
nitrate - .3-1mg/l
water-holding capacity 80-88%
color - light brown
appearance - earth granular w/ short fibers

perlite:
immediately above a water reservoir, holds 30% of its volume as water.
@ 20cm(8") above a water reservoir, perlite holds 19% its volume in water...

50/50 coco/perlite =

*coco water-holding capacity 80-88%
*@ 20cm(8") above a water reservoir, perlite holds 19% its volume in water...

maybe fed 1/5 volume container, every 2 days... full strength fert.
maybe, run-off become 2" water reservoir...
maybe passive hydroponics, using sub-irrigation of run-off as buffered res...
maybe ph down to 5.0-5.5, ec 1.0-3.0+...