Coco plants, 2 questions

[the cult]

Hi there,

I recently got some problems, first one Id say is first stages of a Nitrogen def. Can someone confirm?

second one, I am NOT sure, hence this post actually:

This is the first time I kept plants vegging for 2 months, and I started seeing these deficiencies 1 1/2 months into veg. They are both clones of AK-47, growing in coco coir (atami) with clay balls, under a 200W envirolite with a full set of Hesi nutes. Ph rests steadily on 5.8 and an EC of 1-1.2

Thanks for any input.

 

[4iiii'z]

that looks like over fert to me

(*)^(*)

 

[sproutco]

Zinc deficiency

Zinc deficiency

Here is the picture from the complete guide to sick plants in the sticky in this forum.

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1134Zinc2.jpg

Possible reasons:
>rootbound
>too cold; less than 68f (20c) causes trouble
>staying too wet
>too much copper, phosphorus, calcium, iron, or magnesium
>just need more zinc

 

[Farmer John]

Looks like p def..

 

[the cult]

2nd one?

 

[sproutco]

I think the necrotic spots is also zn def. P def is less common. Most ferts, unless they contain no p like 13-0-44, provide enough p for plants to function. Zinc however may be easily short in the ferts. There may be only .2 ppm zinc for example. So just adding .1 ppm, this little amount, results in an increase of 50%. This can make a giant difference. Another problem with alot of ferts is that the level of copper and zinc is the same. Zinc and copper are famous for competing with each other to get in the plant. Plants need 3x zinc compared to copper. Why some companies make them equal? I don't know. Check your label. Correct cultural factors like overwatering, temp, etc.. before applying more zn.

 

[Suby]

Hello and welcome to the fun of growing in coco, I liked it but what you are describing is classic of coco.
It is very rare to have an N def. in coco as it buffers negative ions fantastically.
It is probably a Calcium deficienty, coco has an extensive cationic exchange web and requires alot of calcium and magnesium in the beginning because the cationic exchange properties, if your not used to how much of these they consume and are used to soil growing then it will catch you off guard.

Botanicare makes an excellent Cal/Mag formula suited for coco, my advice in coco is to always use a coco specific nutrient like Canna or even PBPro with the Calmag formula.
See the purpling in the stems and lower leaves? You need a coco fert because they deliver ALOT of potassium as it is a cation and gets slightly bound up in to coco's food web.

You should definately flush the original solution with a light formula of Cal/Mag, it will preload the web with what it needs and it's usually recommeded but coco growers to do so.
If you need more info on coco check out Plantet Ganja, they have a section for coco with alot more info.

Top feed run to waste systems are fantanstic, if you need help you can also PM my friend MTF Shaman who is an excellent coco grower.

Sub's

 

[the cult]

Great responses, thanks alot!

Just some notes, I do use coco specific nutes, namely Hesi. I use their full set, even supervit and powerzyme. The purpling of the stem means what now? I didnt really catch that? Nute defs?

Im in Europe, and I tried to find a cal/mag solution without success. And the zinc Sproutco? Is there specific zinc solutions?

Many thanks again gents

 

[sproutco]

First thing is to change cultural conditions. Make sure the coco dries out between waterings well. Keep temps warm.

 

[Guest]

Looks like magnesium to me....

It doesnt look like zink...

Zink is a manufacturing problem... meaning the plant did not have enought to manufacture the leaf properly.... Stitchs pic shows the little leaf problem.... classic for zink def...

This one does not.... magnesium is a not at the top problem unless it gets bad... meaning that the top of the plant takes from the lower leaves....

 

[Guest]

First thing is to change cultural conditions. Make sure the coco dries out between waterings well. Keep temps warm.

bad advice ,,,NEVER EVER EVER let coco dry out ,it needs to be moist all the time ,,
,i have a simple saying to assist new coco growers ,,"if they dry they die"

try upping your ec to 1.5 like it says in the hesi coco feed schedule http://www.hesi.nl/english/popups/12.htm ,
http://www.hesi.nl/english/popups/9.htm,
an ec of 1.2 for a 2 month old vegging plant is not nearly enough and is obvious because of your deficencies

hope it helps

 

[sproutco]

Zinc problems can appear lower on the plant than other micros. Its the most mobile micro which makes things tricky. Go to the original picture and spend a few minutes looking for the leaf tips twisting 90 degrees. You have to really look hard but its there on the right side of the pic. Another plant recently in the cannabis infirmary experienced the same thing using coco and hesi nutes. This yellowing occured slightly higher up on the plant. Again, i think zinc. The thing that is similar to both plants is they are using pure coco. I think it may be beneficial to add some perlite to improve aeration.

 

[Guest]

So you think everything is zink???

The two pics have virtually nothing in common....

The two classis signs of zink def is little leaf and the lack of stem elongation....


rosetting......

The 90 degree thing if I recall was from highway ....

and he imo made that up to match the pic he used....


Zinc

Zinc is an essential component of various enzyme systems for energy production, protein synthesis, and growth regulation. Zinc deficient plants also exhibit delayed maturity. Zinc is not mobile in plants so zinc-deficiency symptoms occur mainly in new growth. Poor mobility in plants suggests the need for a constant supply of available zinc for optimum growth. The most visible zinc deficiency symptoms are short internodes and a decrease in leaf size. Delayed maturity also is a symptom of zinc-deficient plants.

Zinc deficiencies are mainly found on sandy soils low in organic matter and on organic soils. Zinc deficiencies occur more often during cold, wet spring weather and are related to reduced root growth and activity as well as lower microbial activity decreases zinc release from soil organic matter. Zinc uptake by plants decreases with increased soil pH. Uptake of zinc also is adversely affected by high levels of available phosphorus and iron in soils.

 

[sproutco]

try upping your ec to 1.5 like it says in the hesi coco feed schedule http://www.hesi.nl/english/popups/12.htm ,
http://www.hesi.nl/english/popups/9.htm,
an ec of 1.2 for a 2 month old vegging plant is not nearly enough and is obvious because of your deficencies

hope it helps

Good advice. The other plant I posted a picture of also getting hesi nutes in coco recovered after the nutes were increased. I bet these plants are getting rootbound.

 

[the cult]

Once again, thanks to ALL of you. Really appreciate you taking your time!

 

[gaiusmarius]

bad advice ,,,NEVER EVER EVER let coco dry out ,it needs to be moist all the time ,,
,i have a simple saying to assist new coco growers ,,"if they dry they die"

try upping your ec to 1.5 like it says in the hesi coco feed schedule http://www.hesi.nl/english/popups/12.htm ,
http://www.hesi.nl/english/popups/9.htm,
an ec of 1.2 for a 2 month old vegging plant is not nearly enough and is obvious because of your deficencies

hope it helps

Bingo!

coco is not a complex medium to grow in. you do need to use a coco specific nute program for the best all round results.

to me that plants looks like someone was growing it like in earth?

you need to water at LEAST once every other day, better once a day.

if you give them coco specific nutes and a higher ec level they will come around in no time.

for a lot of good coco growing info check this coco thread, it will give you an idea of the possibilities with your coco as a medium...

Unofficial Coco Coir Growers Thread

basically you should be able to get a great harvest with just your basic A+B coco ferts and a bottle of ph minus. the more you add on top, the more you should know what you are doing as you can quickly do more harm then good.

anyway have fun getting to know this great medium,

peace

 

[the cult]

I follow that thread, great one. Im just wondering, do the plants really need full set of nutes every day with daily watering? The plants in the picture been watered every 3rd day, but it seems that is too little?

Thanks.

 

[Suby]

First thing is to change cultural conditions. Make sure the coco dries out between waterings well. Keep temps warm.

WTF do you even know 1 damn thing about coco? I have grown in it often.
You can water that mix dam near every hour od every day in a run to waste system and have excellent results.
Coco is a natural fungucide so it's very hard to overwater especially since he is using hydroclay in the mix for extra aeration.

S

PS

bad advice ,,,NEVER EVER EVER let coco dry out ,it needs to be moist all the time ,,
,i have a simple saying to assist new coco growers ,,"if they dry they die"

try upping your ec to 1.5 like it says in the hesi coco feed schedule http://www.hesi.nl/english/popups/12.htm ,
http://www.hesi.nl/english/popups/9.htm,
an ec of 1.2 for a 2 month old vegging plant is not nearly enough and is obvious because of your deficencies

This is good advice IMHO.
If you only watering every 3rd day it is most probably a def.
I'll check the Hesi out and see if anything rings a bell.