exoticrobotic
Well-known member
Crumbles to a fluffy resinous dust... No stems no seeds no stalks
Try it and see.
Try it and see.
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CMH vs LED vs HPS
- Thread starter Gerardbutler79
- Start date
Average quality product with absolutely zero customer or retailer support after sale.
If you are good with that roll the dice.
I use 3 of those Prism ballasts. None have failed over 5 years of use. Ive made 2x 240v 315w ballast.
I used Phillips Advance IZTMH210315RLFM ballast to make them. Phillips doesn't make them anymore.
I used Phillips Advance IZTMH210315RLFM ballast to make them. Phillips doesn't make them anymore.
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Eye Lighting to Close Operations
Business to wind down with finished goods inventory selloff
inside.lighting
Holy shit, damn man. I ran hortis for like 12+ years on and off. Always solid compared to other brands of 1000w. Times are a changin…Eye Lighting to Close Operations
Business to wind down with finished goods inventory selloff
I have posted it already. But might as well mention again. The local grow store is no longer selling any hid lighting or bulbs.
Despite everything ive said and shown to support leds, ill admit, the idea of never being able to go back does trouble me. I really cant imagine why I would, but the option for greenhouse/deps and possibly even just to fuck around w mixed lighting still seems cool to me.
1st grow just harvested with a mars fce8000- they are drying now
previous 4-5 grows were with '2' 315 cmh's in a 4x3.5ft tent - not impressed with cmh
previously to cmh's for years it was 1000w mh/hps switchables- and they always grew top-notch weed - if i could deal with the heat, to me it would be a no-brainer
previous 4-5 grows were with '2' 315 cmh's in a 4x3.5ft tent - not impressed with cmh
previously to cmh's for years it was 1000w mh/hps switchables- and they always grew top-notch weed - if i could deal with the heat, to me it would be a no-brainer
There's a slew of things that will affect the quality at harvest. The light is only part of that. Having said that any light CMH, LED, or HPS will produce quality plants with the right grower.
greyfader
Well-known member
so, a little further back in this thread YellowCanaryConsulting showed using 2 different lamps for growing, one for veg and one for flower.
i think that goes to the "root" of this problem of inconsistency using led's.
we have all these different sellers of led fixtures trying to compete at price points.
so they are building fixtures that are compromised somewhat in both phases of growth.
most are producing what they term "full-spectrum" lights.
so they run, simultaneously, warm white and cool white phosphor-coated diodes.
then some dark red 660 diodes are added to the "white" diodes.
because phosphor-coated diodes are blue-frequency diodes before they are coated even the warm white 2700k and 3000k diodes will still have huge blue spikes.
for example, a 2700k diode will still be 32% blue.
adding the 660nm dark reds offsets the overall ratio a little to the warm side and lessens the blue ratio as a part of total light.
this is what mars hydro and many others are doing.
but the blue ratio in flower using the phosphor coating method is still much higher than even a DE hps, which i think might be around 12-14% but it's been a while and i could be a little off on that.
when i used hps i got larger flowers than with leds. i think this is because of the lower blue/red ratio.
several papers i have read indicate this as well.
but size is not the most important thing when growing medical cannabis.
i have also read papers indicating that a blue heavy spectrum produces higher thc and terpene percentages by volume of flower mass.
if i were to extract again i would use all 6500k lights with a lot of power.
this indicates that getting more mass using hps comes at the expense of total cannabinoids and terpenes by volume.
this might be termed dilution by volume or mass.
i think there is an ideal balance point of the spectrum that gets both high THC, CBD, and terpene content while producing acceptable weight for commercial purposes.
back in the old days, i used 4000-4200k metal halides for veg and horticultural hps lamps for flower.
because of recent research, i now think that the veg light should be more towards 5000k and maybe 6500k.
i think we not only can entrain the plant in veg to produce tight nodes and more shoots with the heavily blue-weighted spectrum but that the trend continues well into flower even after changing to a more suitable flowering spectrum.
i think this is because the heavier root structure you get in veg using a blue weighted light enhances the production of auxins produced in the roots and the shoots.
these auxins are still in the plant at the switch to flower.
back to the flowering spectrum, i think using warm white diodes (2700-3000k) only without the 5000k but still adding the 660nm dark red is about the best we can do using phosphor-coated diodes.
you could have one fixture with the ability to switch back and forth between these two "ideal" specialized spectral distributions.
or two fixtures, as yellow canary consulting suggests.
but, i don't think these compromised mass-produced "full spectrum" fixtures are ideal. i have seen beautiful flowers grown with them but i think we can do better by dialing in the correct spectrum for each phase of growth.
the ideal way to produce "white" light fixtures is by combining monochromatic diodes in ratios to achieve the color temp you want.
this is also the most expensive way to do it and i have seen high cri architectural lights built this way. there are screw-in home type bulbs built this way but they are radically expensive.
this is why most led grow light manufacturers use the phosphor coating method.
several companies seem to be headed this way already. i think valoya offers fixtures specific to veg or flower.
they are heavily involved with led research.
i'm a little shocked that eye hortilux is quitting but there can be no doubt that the industry is going led.
in the first group we have the spectral distribution of different commonly used diode color temps. since they are phosphor coated they all have a lot of blue already.
the second one shows the addition of some dark red 660nm diodes added to the "white" light.
i think that goes to the "root" of this problem of inconsistency using led's.
we have all these different sellers of led fixtures trying to compete at price points.
so they are building fixtures that are compromised somewhat in both phases of growth.
most are producing what they term "full-spectrum" lights.
so they run, simultaneously, warm white and cool white phosphor-coated diodes.
then some dark red 660 diodes are added to the "white" diodes.
because phosphor-coated diodes are blue-frequency diodes before they are coated even the warm white 2700k and 3000k diodes will still have huge blue spikes.
for example, a 2700k diode will still be 32% blue.
adding the 660nm dark reds offsets the overall ratio a little to the warm side and lessens the blue ratio as a part of total light.
this is what mars hydro and many others are doing.
but the blue ratio in flower using the phosphor coating method is still much higher than even a DE hps, which i think might be around 12-14% but it's been a while and i could be a little off on that.
when i used hps i got larger flowers than with leds. i think this is because of the lower blue/red ratio.
several papers i have read indicate this as well.
but size is not the most important thing when growing medical cannabis.
i have also read papers indicating that a blue heavy spectrum produces higher thc and terpene percentages by volume of flower mass.
if i were to extract again i would use all 6500k lights with a lot of power.
this indicates that getting more mass using hps comes at the expense of total cannabinoids and terpenes by volume.
this might be termed dilution by volume or mass.
i think there is an ideal balance point of the spectrum that gets both high THC, CBD, and terpene content while producing acceptable weight for commercial purposes.
back in the old days, i used 4000-4200k metal halides for veg and horticultural hps lamps for flower.
because of recent research, i now think that the veg light should be more towards 5000k and maybe 6500k.
i think we not only can entrain the plant in veg to produce tight nodes and more shoots with the heavily blue-weighted spectrum but that the trend continues well into flower even after changing to a more suitable flowering spectrum.
i think this is because the heavier root structure you get in veg using a blue weighted light enhances the production of auxins produced in the roots and the shoots.
these auxins are still in the plant at the switch to flower.
back to the flowering spectrum, i think using warm white diodes (2700-3000k) only without the 5000k but still adding the 660nm dark red is about the best we can do using phosphor-coated diodes.
you could have one fixture with the ability to switch back and forth between these two "ideal" specialized spectral distributions.
or two fixtures, as yellow canary consulting suggests.
but, i don't think these compromised mass-produced "full spectrum" fixtures are ideal. i have seen beautiful flowers grown with them but i think we can do better by dialing in the correct spectrum for each phase of growth.
the ideal way to produce "white" light fixtures is by combining monochromatic diodes in ratios to achieve the color temp you want.
this is also the most expensive way to do it and i have seen high cri architectural lights built this way. there are screw-in home type bulbs built this way but they are radically expensive.
this is why most led grow light manufacturers use the phosphor coating method.
several companies seem to be headed this way already. i think valoya offers fixtures specific to veg or flower.
they are heavily involved with led research.
i'm a little shocked that eye hortilux is quitting but there can be no doubt that the industry is going led.
in the first group we have the spectral distribution of different commonly used diode color temps. since they are phosphor coated they all have a lot of blue already.
the second one shows the addition of some dark red 660nm diodes added to the "white" light.
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hammer ... i think u hit it on the head... its the shitty grower...
Cerathule
Well-known member
Bro, I agree with most of what you said but this seems to be in conflict with the very spec you posted.
Because, it's really about "the area under the curve" and not the max peak to evaluate how much 400-500nm (blue or 600-700nm (red) there is.
Most LED vs HPS studies have shown LED has about 1-2% higher THC and there is some agreement that it's due to the increase of 3% HPS blue to 10% LED blue that causes that.
That said, sunlight has way higher blue and also, UVA.
Since it was mentioned earlier on I'm going to share some Plasma Light flower pics (courtesy of MisterGrafik from Cali - I don't own nay plasma lights, they are very expensive like 4 bucks per watt, and I guess not produced anymore):
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greyfader
Well-known member
i agree that the spikes are not the total blue portion if that is what you mean.
i was just pointing out the powerful blue spikes that occur with phosphor-coated diodes.
that plasma flower looks great. do you have pics of that strain grown under other types of light?
we all put up nice flower pics but it's always one strain matched to one light source.
i don't think it means much without lab testing.
most of us are not equipped to do that kind of work so we work empirically instead.
here's one i just flowered under 2700k led light bulbs from walmart.
it was grown experimentally using different combinations of color temp bulbs.
the next grow i will use 5000k only under high intensity up to the end of the second week of stretch.
then i will go to all 2700k with supplementary 660nm dark red.
it should be interesting.
this particular strain, Mayberry from bluestarseedco. is perhaps the best-tasting and smoking plant i've ever grown. rich terp-filled hits, very smooth. and a beautiful head.
talk about feeling good!
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I have run that experiment myself, walmart 2700k vs 5000k for flower
the 2700k were good, the 5000k much better
everything was better, taste yield density
this was a reveg under 37 watts
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goingrey
Well-known member
You used only 37W to grow all that?
yes, kind of amazing, reveg is partly the reason
goingrey
Well-known member
Well that's one for the LEDs. Can't grow much at all using 37W only with anything else, let a lone a plant that will have you high for six months straight.
wandering81
Member
