CMH vs LED vs HPS

[Crooked8]

Yeah when led companies do tests LEDs always win we know that

In real life smoking also or just on paper ?

No one said you don't have the experience, well I did until u showed it, but it doesn't matter what u grew under if you fail to acknowledge basic science facts and basic difference in each tech and it's use
Other then that, all rest is your subjective opinion, not science.

What science am i denying? Ppfd is literally measuring the amount of photons in a given space. Please clarify what science is being ignored here.

 

[Crooked8]

You can just scroll back if you didnt get it the first time, that's one of the great benefits a forum has over a chatroom.




You're linking marketing articles from LED light producers - are you trying to troll me?
Espescially the second link, you can't be serious.
To be fair, the first link does mention an actual study, and it indeed points out higher THC levels.
But that THC levels alone don't define quality, you don't have to take USU advanced medical cannabis courses to know that.



So you're referring to studies that aren't even released to the public?
Did they tell you how science works yet?

Can you show me an hid lighting producer that claims something similar? Please do. If you can show me any hid light that produces more ppfd and efficacy than leds ill leave this discussion. Also, a lot of usu studies have been released. Can you please explain how science works for us?

 

[Koondense]

He's talking about your price lol
I'm happy to not take seriously these led haters, they clearly struggle with new information and repeat the same mantras.
It's all about MEDS man, our stupid LEDs just make beautiful buds, not MEDS.
Lol

 

[snakedope]

What science am i denying? Ppfd is literally measuring the amount of photons in a given space. Please clarify what science is being ignored here.

You are right again, ppfd is how much photons exist in space, no one said your wrong on that, but it's not how intensity is measured ! And it's not the same thing !
Rating of source
Rating of space
Two different things, one comes before the other and that's the rating of the source, ppfd measurement is not what defines the intensity of a light source !

 

[snakedope]

He's talking about your price lol
I'm happy to not take seriously these led haters, they clearly struggle with new information and

New info lol hahaha your excuses is just getting lame and weaker by the minute

repeat the same mantras.
It's all about MEDS man, our stupid LEDs just make beautiful buds, not MEDS.
Lol

Yep, it's all about the meds mayneee I don't recall you eating the damn leaves like a goat
You smoke the meds this plant gives you.
So, again, it's all about the final product, the oil, the glue, the resin, not about leaves or colors
But to each his own, if you like beautiful plants with low potency taste smell I can never judge you.

 

[Crooked8]

He's talking about your price lol
I'm happy to not take seriously these led haters, they clearly struggle with new information and repeat the same mantras.
It's all about MEDS man, our stupid LEDs just make beautiful buds, not MEDS.
Lol

If i were to get into grammatical errors within these led haters comments id never even have a shot of getting through. Ive nearly stroked out several times just trying to read their comments. Gotta wade through those waters and hope for the best lol. They keep saying im denying science when im the only one talking about actual science. You know, the stuff i learned from real scientists who have studied cannabis to every degree. They just dont like what they are hearing or seeing, because it proves them wrong. Literally getting hated on for posting photos of my experience…..should i not? Would i be more credible then? Maybe ill throw in some spelling errors too to really boost my credibility! Hahaha

 

[Broggemann]

Can you show me an hid lighting producer that claims something similar?

Even if I could. Does it make any difference?

If you can show me any hid light that produces more ppfd and efficacy than leds ill leave this discussion.

You still don't seem to get the point of the discussion, it's not about PPFD or effiency.
But, just so you finally leave the discussion:
Sorry, I cant show you any HID light that produces more PPFD than any modern LED.
Please be true to your word.

Can you please explain how science works for us?

I probably could, but it's not my job, you can ask your lecturer though.
Just a little hint:
Papers should be peer reviewed.

If i were to get into grammatical errors within these led haters comments id never even have a shot of getting through.

That's very friendly and open minded, you ever considered not everyone is a native englisch-speaker?
Let me guess - you speak exactly nothing besides 'merican?
And if you do - you always do it without a single grammar mistake?
Genius.

 

[Crooked8]

You are right again, ppfd is how much photons exist in space, no one said your wrong on that, but it's not how intensity is measured ! And it's not the same thing !
Rating of source
Rating of space
Two different things, one comes before the other and that's the rating of the source, ppfd measurement is not what defines the intensity of a light source !

How are these sources rated? How is space rated? Fixtures have exact rating of their output. Ppfd is what is hitting the plant. Going off of ppf of a fixture is far less accurate than the ppfd hitting a leaf. How are you measuring your source or space? If you are worried about the source = ppf ratings of a fixture, leds win….again.

 

[Crooked8]

Even if I could. Does it make any difference?



You still don't seem to get the point of the discussion, it's not about PPFD or effiency.
But, just so you finally leave the discussion:
Sorry, I cant show you any HID light that produces more PPFD than any modern LED.
Please be true to your word.



I probably could, but it's not my job, you can ask your lecturer though.
Just a little hint:
Papers should be peer reviewed.

It would make a huge difference lol are you joking? Thats the whole damn point!

The point of this discussion is precisely about ppfd and efficacy and quality produced. I said id leave the discussion if you could show me an hid with higher claims than leds. You cant, so here i will stay.

Thanks for the hint, but not only is their research peer reviewed, its replicated multiple times by more than one doctor. Maybe take the course, then you can talk down on it. You wouldnt though, because you would learn a ton and be better for it. If you want to talk shit on education, well, that would be pretty sad.

 

[GoatCheese]

I'm not sure that env factors temp, humidity, air exchange, wind damage can explain such a difference in the end product's high.

They weren't really present with either grows in any case.

I got larger yield from the leds by quite a margin achieving well over 1gpw. Cmh never got close but the cmh bud more than made up for it with the quality and depth of the high.

If your enviro was close to what it should be and you still toasted the resin, then i think the light was just running too hot or it was too close to the plant for the amount of wattage you were using.

Stress can dramatically change the effect if it’s high level stress for a large part of the bloom cycle.

Some plants are a lot more sensitive to the stress that come with modern led lights + enviro than others. I have keepers of both kind. ..Skunk1 genetics that came from Nevil’s Sk1 parents/ MNS genetics seem to be more sensitive to these types of stress, as an example. Some Pakistani and Afghani types don’t like dry cold, windy environment at all – even if you’d have a HPS light

.. then I have an oily CBD Critical Cure keeper that handles my cobs quite well even during winter.

 

[Crooked8]

Even if I could. Does it make any difference?



You still don't seem to get the point of the discussion, it's not about PPFD or effiency.
But, just so you finally leave the discussion:
Sorry, I cant show you any HID light that produces more PPFD than any modern LED.
Please be true to your word.



I probably could, but it's not my job, you can ask your lecturer though.
Just a little hint:
Papers should be peer reviewed.



That's very friendly and open minded, you ever considered not everyone is a native englisch-speaker?
Let me guess - you speak exactly nothing besides 'merican?
And if you do - you always do it without a single grammar mistake?
Genius.

I wouldnt go into a non english speaking thread spewing lies in the first place.

 

[Broggemann]

It would make a huge difference lol are you joking? Thats the whole damn point!

Marketing claims made by lighting producers are, completely, irrelevant.

The point of this discussion is precisely about ppfd and efficacy and quality produced.

The point is which is the better light for which specific case/environment.
There may PPFD be one point, but so is quality of smoke and ease of use.

Maybe take the course, then you can talk down on it.

The way one of their students argues in a public weed forum is enough for me to don't even consider this.

 

[Crooked8]

Marketing claims made by lighting producers are, completely, irrelevant.



The point is which is the better light for which specific case/environment.
There may PPFD be one point, but so is quality of smoke and ease of use.



The way one of their students argues in a public weed forum is enough for me to don't even consider this.

So fixture ratings should always be ignored. Youre smart.

Im having a hard time understanding what you mean. When would an led be the wrong fixture for an environment?

So because you dont like me, forget all about learning from scientists. Youre quite the over achiever.

What have you added to this discussion? Why do you feel HIDs are superior? Im ready to have a discussion rather than an argument.

 

[snakedope]

How are these sources rated? How is space rated? Fixtures have exact rating of their output. Ppfd is what is hitting the plant. Going off of ppf of a fixture is far less accurate than the ppfd hitting a leaf. How are you measuring your source or space? If you are worried about the source = ppf ratings of a fixture, leds win….again.

It's not about accuracy bro.
How can LEDs win if a diode is 500lm max ?
Again you are adding the total light output of many diodes (fixture)
When science fails you, you go to bro science to justify your claims but I explained to you this is not how it works in real life, just on paper.
We are not worried about our source as we know HIDs are rated high intensity, hence the name HIDs high intensity discharge, highhh intensityyy do you know why they call it like that ? You think because they create such a high ppfd flux ? No, it's because they are high intensity at the source !
If you don't know what that means you can always ask and I will explain no problem
But you say that doesn't matter, I say it is.
Lets fight about it with science please, bring a paper or a scientist that will approve or disapprove these concepts

It would make a huge difference lol are you joking? Thats the whole damn point!

The point of this discussion is precisely about ppfd and efficacy and quality produced. I said id leave the discussion if you could show me an hid with higher claims than leds. You cant, so here i will stay.

No, it's about the lack of intensity of LEDs.
I can show u a 75w hid which is better then any diode but that's not fair, diodes are 1-2w and HIDs are not, that's why they don't make HIDs at lower watts, they want to keep them high intensity, probably it's important

If I put my 600w hps and take a reading under the center point I will make probably x 10 the ppfd you will get under the same spot with LEDs, but it doesn't matter anything cuz it's just measuring again light in space which don't tell us anything about the capability of the source and it's rate, well it does say that the source is probably high intensity from the get go but we can never know how much.
You measure the sun and you know it's 400k lm but you don't know the rate of the sun itself, you can only guess it's very high cuz you get high ppfd reading here on earth

 

[Crooked8]

It's not about accuracy bro.
How can LEDs win if a diode is 500lm max ?
Again you are adding the total light output of many diodes (fixture)
When science fails you, you go to bro science to justify your claims but I explained to you this is not how it works in real life, just on paper.
We are not worried about our source as we know HIDs are rated high intensity, hence the name HIDs high intensity discharge, highhh intensityyy do you know why they call it like that ? You think because they create such a high ppfd flux ? No, it's because they are high intensity at the source !
If you don't know what that means you can always ask and I will explain no problem
But you say that doesn't matter, I say it is.
Lets fight about it with science please, bring a paper or a scientist that will approve or disapprove these concepts

No, it's about the lack of intensity of LEDs.
I can show u a 75w hid which is better then any diode but that's not fair, diodes are 1-2w and HIDs are not, that's why they don't make HIDs at lower watts, they want to keep them high intensity, probably it's important

If I put my 600w hps and take a reading under the center point I will make probably x 10 the ppfd you will get under the same spot with LEDs, but it doesn't matter anything cuz it's just measuring again light in space which don't tell us anything about the capability of the source and it's rate, well it does say that the source is probably high intensity from the get go but we can never know how much.
You measure the sun and you know it's 400k lm but you don't knotlw the rate if the sun itself, you can only guess it's very high cuz you get high ppfd reading here on earth

This is the most incorrect thing youve posted yet. I can take a light meter directly under an hps vs an led and the led will win every single time. Not only have i done it myself, but i encourage you to do the same. Grab an apera light meter and do it. Because that is so so wrong. And please explain this “high intensity at the source”. Your claim of having a light meter read 10x higher under an hid vs led really shows you have never done that.

 

[GoatCheese]

Maybe this has been posted already but it's pretty interesting, 260W LED vs 315W CMH side-by-side with clones.

LEC vs LED Grow Lights: Side-by-Side Cannabis Grow Journal | Grow Weed Easy

by Nebula Haze This grow journal from 2020 features two indoor cannabis gardens that are identical except for one thing: the grow light! See a match-up between LEDs vs LEC grow lights. If you’re unfamiliar, LEC is a brand name by Sun System. LECs are also known as CMH grow lights. I have to...

www.growweedeasy.com

LED gave higher yield/W and higher THC content. CMH gave higher terpene content.

Visually the buds look really similar (yep, CMH trichomes also have the long stalks).

Note that CMH had higher terp production on average
But it actually seems that across all the cuts he/she grew the terpene production is all over the place between the LED and CMH light – some times LED has much more terps than CMH, but with some cuts it’s the other way around. The results aren’t consistent at all: ...stress related variation??!!!

LED Test Results [PDFs]

Zweet Inzanity | 22.64% THC | Terps: 31.0 mg/g

Mandarin Cookies | 26.44% THC | Terps: 31.3 mg/g

Lemon Lime | 18.65% THC | Terps: 47.5 mg/g

Ocean Fruit | 22.96% THC | Terps: 22.6 mg/g

Pacific Punch | 21.04% THC | Terps: 16.5 mg/g



315 LEC Test Results [PDFs]

Zweet Inzanity | 21.79% THC | Terpenes: 48.2 mg/g

Mandarin Cookies | 24.4% THC | Terpenes: 25.4 mg/g

Lemon Lime | 16.98% THC | Terpenes: 35.5 mg/g

Ocean Fruit | 21.15% THC | Terpenes: 54.5 mg/g

Pacific Punch | 18.56% THC | Terpenes: 10.8 mg/g

 

[snakedope]

Lol haha your light meter must be broken
Understand that the initial lm you start with a 600 hps is almost 100k, if I put my light meter under the center point I will see more then 40k lm, and if I get even closer to the bulb I will in theory reach 100k in my meter but it won't happen cuz the light spreads more then what the meter can see
will you see these numbers under you LEDs ? No.

 

[Crooked8]

Lol haha your light meter must be broken
Understand that the initial lm you start with a 600 hps is almost 100k, if I put my light meter under the center point I will see more then 40k lm, and if I get even closer to the bulb I will in theory reach 100k in my meter but it won't happen cuz the light spreads more then what the meter can see
will you see these numbers under you LEDs ? No.

Not only is my light meter not broken, its the best on the market. Youve never done this test. Its obvious. I can take my meter within one foot of both fixtures in the center and every led ive ever run will embarrass even a brand new de hps.

 

[snakedope]

Not only is my light meter not broken, its the best on the market. Youve never done this test. Its obvious. I can take my meter within one foot of both fixtures in the center and every led ive ever run will embarrass even a brand new de hps.

Huh ??? What are u talking about ?
You get more then 6000 umol with your LEDs ? Prove it

 

[exoticrobotic]

If your enviro was close to what it should be and you still toasted the resin, then i think the light was just running too hot or it was too close to the plant for the amount of wattage you were using.

I'm not toasting anything but my head @GoatCheese

I fail to see amber heads with my led.. maybe the odd one or two but mostly cloudy and some clear.

Those one or two are not transparent amber but are shrivelled opaque brown.