Closet Surgery

[LyryC]

Whats up ICMAG? for tuning in.

I finished a grow in my 5x5 closet earlier this year, and haven't been able to start anything till the end of this month, so I've been patiently waiting for the time to upgrade, next week!

lets start preparing:

Took pictures, those shelves are goners.

The board up top is going soon and the popcorn ceiling, ganna be a mess, but it'll be worth it.

Going to spackle/seal the walls/ceiling and baseboards, and then paint flat white.

Anyone have flat white paint recommendations? I purchased a small can of Behr Interior Ceiling Flat - Ultra Pure White 558

Going to test the paint first.

Plan is new carpets tomorrow, and the landlord wants the shelves in the closet , so I have to wait.

Today I'm taking everything out, and doing the popcorn ceiling, cleaning that up and then testing a small spot for paint.

Then after the door/blinds have been installed, I can gut the shelves out. I'll finish spackling/sealing and then finalize the walls with paint.

The intake is staying the same, but filters are getting replaced and its getting painted to look cleaner.

Going to completely redo the light proofing after realizing the correct way to use the light proof rubber for doors.

I'll have a big update just on that to help everyone out with a simple solution to light problems.

The exhaust might get moved from the top of the door to the ceiling/attic. Depends if there is enough room in the attic to do the work in that area above.

More to come soon!



-LC

 

[Jnugg]

1) Use reflextix or mylar...much more reflective than flat white paint.

2) I'd do what ever it is I could to exhaust all hot air to the attic or a room other than the room that closet sits in.It looks as if in your past grow that you were exhausting all the air back into the room with the closet in it....big no no...this raises the ambient temperature (temperature of the room the closet is in,and draws it's intake air from) thus raising the temperature in the grow when lights are on.Get that exhaust into the attic or another room other than the room your closet sits in.

 

[messn'n'gommin']

I have little experience with reflectix or mylar, but it is my understanding that with HID's clear bulbs you should use a diffusive reflective surface and with diffusive bulbs (i.e. fluoro's) you should use highly reflective surfaces like aluminum/reflectix/aquarium reflectors. I endorse neither (except the bit about fluoro's), but if you do go with white paint; the following link is a good read:

“Painting the Growroom.” by clampie
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=197980

hth

 

[Jnugg]

I have never heard that,all I know is I ain't paying an electric bill to waste light so I'm going with the most reflective shit I can.Flat white surfaces are good for reflecting light,but reflectix and mylar are even more reflective.

Maybe what you're talking about is to eliminate any hot spots (mirrors produce the worst)?

 

[LyryC]

Hey guys, thanks for dropping in.

Appreciate the love Jnugg, but like the thread MG posted, paint is my to go wall situation.

The way I see it, I'm on a budget, so I can invest in the Mylar, which isn't necessary or I can invest in rerouting the exhaust for the same money.

I've read a lot and even talked to a lot of people and honestly Mylar done right is the way to go, but since I have constrictions, I only purchased some panda film for the floor, paint for the walls/ceiling.

MG - that link is awesome support for what I was planning on doing.

New Carpets arriving in 30 minutes!

Doors won't be put in till next week so I have to wait. In the mean time I'll be working on the cabinet, check out the signature.

good vibes brothers and sisters

 

[wildgrow]

Hey buddy! Id exhaust to the attic - wait I already do! The only problem I have with it is when the exhaust is off when the light is off. The heat that builds up in the attic pushes down through my exhaust hole, keeping the pantry just as hot as with the light on. <- The reason why i have to shut down for the summer. I dont know if it will be as much as a problem for you since your not running an open bulb. But it might warm up your house some.

Your plan sounds good to me. You know Im budget concious. Heading to the next thread.

 

[messn'n'gommin']

Thank you for the clarification, Jnugg! Aquarists tell me that they use mirror finish aluminum hoods for their fluoro tank lights because they "focus" the light rather than "spreading" it out and the light from fluoro's is already diffuse when leaving the tube. Each time another angle of incidence occurs it reduces light energy.

I have no info on how much reflectance mylar has compared to flat white paint except that it is in fact, more, how much more I couldn't say. But, it's my understanding that mylar is harder to maintain and reflectix retains heat as it has a relative high R-factor.

I'm not saying any one technique is better than another, to each their own, and circumstances vary with the number of grows! Still, initial costs, maintenance costs, thermal properties, ease of use, etc. should be considered, and to be forewarned is to be forearmed.

lol...Just to confuse the matter further, here's another thread discussing the merits for paint, reflectix, and mylar (even white tile!):

“Poll: Best Reflection For Walls,” by Quitters
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=175244

 

[LyryC]

clutch info homies!

New Carpet.

Took down the popcorn bullshit.

For now, nothing is going to happen. I will paint the ceiling with flat white and the walls flat white, ultra pure white from behr but...

First the shelves will come down, end of this up coming week, landlord gotta stop by after new doors get set up and she isn't part of the closet surgery

Then a 4x4 tray and some more wood to make support beams for my lights, a tray table, and the exhaust port structure. I want to put the fan in the attic but it will be hot up there and i don't want to decrease its lifetime, so I'm not sure where the fan or filter will be and how they will function with this exhaust port.

I'll be adding hooks to hang my "cage" for the girls.

After the painting is done and support work established, i'm going to build the table for the tray so I can easily drain.

Shortly following will be the redo of the light proofing for the doorway.

Then fix up the door since I only need an intake, and im going to make it look real nice, no more duct tape.

im sure im forgetting a few things, but its late, and im done for the day

ciao

 

[wildgrow]

The wheels are really fuckin turning now. Full steam ahead.

Does your attic have any flooring? My fan is wedged between the pantry ceiling and the attic flooring. I cut 2 squares of roofing rubber and cut a circle in the middle with a diameter just slightly less than that of the fan housing. I put a second small hole in 1 to feed the power cord through. Slide them on, tack them up/down to the ceiling/floor and... presto! Airtight flanges.

 

[LyryC]

Any pics WG? that sounds like what I want, this attic is very dirty and hasn't been used for anything since the house was made, I gotta clean it up and find my closet first up there... later

I have to paint the house, so before I can do anymore cab/closet work, I gotta paint this shit hole

 

[wildgrow]

Ya buddy, just took a minute to get from puter to album. Of course, no tacks, use strips of wood. You cant see it, but the rubber hugs the elbow. I didnt mean to paint it black. I got too much on the outside trying to paint the inside. Flat black so any light coming in the attic vents doesnt bounce its way in.

 

[LyryC]

How to Water the plants

How to Water the plants

getting two 2'x4' Flood Trays, one for each light, and will make tables, slightly angled to help drainage.

Hand watering.

Any ideas on something better for a hand water setup?

I want it to be simple and not the focus of my funds, as 4x4 Flood Trays have a disgusting mark up and was my initial idea.

 

[LyryC]

Anyone ever see this or try it?

************************

Re: How to light proof my closet?
There's always the Vaseline and caulk trick.

take some vaseline and smear a coat of it on the inside of the door where it contacts the inner door stop(not sure what it's called.). The vaseline lets the caulk mold perfectly to the door without sticking to it.
Now open the door and take the caulk, clear would seem best, and run a bead of caulk around this inner door stop where the door will hit it. Now close the door and leave it for the cure time listed for the caulk. After the cure time has expired, open the door and clean off the vaseline, you now have a perfectly fitted gasket around the top and both sides of the door. Add a door sweep to the bottom and you should be good to go.

 

[messn'n'gommin']

Anyone ever see this or try it?

************************

Re: How to light proof my closet?
There's always the Vaseline and caulk trick.

take some vaseline and smear a coat of it on the inside of the door where it contacts the inner door stop(not sure what it's called.). The vaseline lets the caulk mold perfectly to the door without sticking to it.
Now open the door and take the caulk, clear would seem best, and run a bead of caulk around this inner door stop where the door will hit it. Now close the door and leave it for the cure time listed for the caulk. After the cure time has expired, open the door and clean off the vaseline, you now have a perfectly fitted gasket around the top and both sides of the door. Add a door sweep to the bottom and you should be good to go.

The 2x4 across the bottom is screwed to the door stops (from the top of the board) and in the middle to the floor. Use a thick bead of silicon caulk to compensate for any slight gaps between the door face and the stop!


The instructions on the caulk says to let it cure for 24 hours. But, after just 24 I found it was still a bit gummy. I'm guessing because of the "enclosed" nature of door against the stop, I found 48-72 hours better. Also, make sure you "grease" the outer edge of the door, because of ooze. A dry run, as it were, while letting it cure might not be a bad idea either.

lol...The cooler was for some water curing.

hth!

 

[RM - aquagrower]

Howdy Lyry, I'd be glad togive ya a hand.

The conditions you're describing in the attic what is known as an "open attic". This is where the attic floor is insulated, and the attic is ventilated.

The IRC (international residential code) calls for a MINIMUM of 150 "net free inches" per 100 sq ft of attic floor space with at least half coming from the eaves. Shingle manufactures recomend 300 per 100 sq ft attic floor space. Please remember that this is in "normal" situations.

As for if is a good idea to vent the grow up there, there are some variables, so I have some questions for ya. I've never been to Cali, so how is the average climate? How hot in the summer, how cold in the winter, average RH? Also, how's the condition of the house? Newer windows/doors and well insulated? Or a drafty old farm house? Natural gas heat and hot water?

Ya see, if you vent the "conditioned" air thru the grow, new air must get in to the home to replace what's leaving via the grow's ventilation system. Remember that air follows the path of least resistance.

Tightly sealed house, NG furnace and hot water, and the grows vent system will pull fresh air from the chimney (or metal heat stack) into the home to replace what's leaving. This can lead to corbon monoxide poisoning.

There are also issues with condensation in colder weather. I have been in lots of attics with improperly vented bathroom fart fans. Fan just blowing into the attic space and not vented thru the roof via a damper vent.

Problem usually goes un-noticed 'till time to sell the house. Home inspecter notes mold issues and seller must correct them to close. In some situations, all that is needed is a "mold treatment". Other times roof decking must be replaced. This can get expensive. And this is just venting a bathroom.

I have always grown in basements, so I've never vented into an attic. But if I did, I would set up a "duel" exhaust system with a damper.

One leg of the exhaust line would vent thru the roof, while another vented into another room of the house. A damper would allow me to decide where the grow's exhaust goes. Decision would be made according to outside temps. If it is hotter outside, vent thru roof. If it is cooler outside, vent into another room.

Home depot sells "manual" duct dampers for less that $10. Would require going up into the attic to change. Moterized dampers are also available and could be hooked to a thermostat to handle the change automatically.

As mentioned above, gotta beware of neg air preasure in the house when going thru the roof.

RM

 

[LyryC]

Howdy Lyry, I'd be glad togive ya a hand.

The conditions you're describing in the attic what is known as an "open attic". This is where the attic floor is insulated, and the attic is ventilated.

The IRC (international residential code) calls for a MINIMUM of 150 "net free inches" per 100 sq ft of attic floor space with at least half coming from the eaves. Shingle manufactures recomend 300 per 100 sq ft attic floor space. Please remember that this is in "normal" situations.

As for if is a good idea to vent the grow up there, there are some variables, so I have some questions for ya. I've never been to Cali, so how is the average climate? How hot in the summer, how cold in the winter, average RH? Also, how's the condition of the house? Newer windows/doors and well insulated? Or a drafty old farm house? Natural gas heat and hot water?

Ya see, if you vent the "conditioned" air thru the grow, new air must get in to the home to replace what's leaving via the grow's ventilation system. Remember that air follows the path of least resistance.

Tightly sealed house, NG furnace and hot water, and the grows vent system will pull fresh air from the chimney (or metal heat stack) into the home to replace what's leaving. This can lead to corbon monoxide poisoning.

There are also issues with condensation in colder weather. I have been in lots of attics with improperly vented bathroom fart fans. Fan just blowing into the attic space and not vented thru the roof via a damper vent.

Problem usually goes un-noticed 'till time to sell the house. Home inspecter notes mold issues and seller must correct them to close. In some situations, all that is needed is a "mold treatment". Other times roof decking must be replaced. This can get expensive. And this is just venting a bathroom.

I have always grown in basements, so I've never vented into an attic. But if I did, I would set up a "duel" exhaust system with a damper.

One leg of the exhaust line would vent thru the roof, while another vented into another room of the house. A damper would allow me to decide where the grow's exhaust goes. Decision would be made according to outside temps. If it is hotter outside, vent thru roof. If it is cooler outside, vent into another room.

Home depot sells "manual" duct dampers for less that $10. Would require going up into the attic to change. Moterized dampers are also available and could be hooked to a thermostat to handle the change automatically.

As mentioned above, gotta beware of neg air preasure in the house when going thru the roof.

RM

Brand new windows, brand new doors, practically air tight house except all the old nooks and crannies you can't see.

The Attic is exactly as you describe. Its really big too, you can stand up straight but it does angle down to a crawl space from the roof.

Here in Southern California its crazy, weather wise that is.
Like today its 65 but tmrw it could be 80. My area averages at 70F from April and steadily increases to an Average of 85F mid summer and then levels at 80 around Late August till September when things drop to 70F and then even more during winter, but we don't get frost; 1 of 5 Mediterianian climates throughout the world . Its humid but not florida humid were your shirt sticks to you, 50% RH is average, and in my closet the RH was around 65% after watering and would go down to 50% and just fluctuate between 45/55%RH.

With my hygrometer out of the grow room, the house has been at a 40% or less RH, during winter, but i know Summer it'll be more humid.

The attic will be hot, hot as fuck in the summer, my room is on the West side of hte house, so I bake alll fucking afternoon in the sun and that means the closet is too.

I was going to get a damper. We don't have a chimney and we run a gas water heater that is in a separate part of the building with the exhaust completely separate from the housing units.

I will be using a window banger A/C, shit i'll probably have to upgrade that, but I have a speed controller for the fan, so there wouldn't be extreme negative pressure.

I used to use my closet door for exhaust, with the exhaust air mixing with the cool fresh air from the A/C, well not fresh

I like the sound of your double exhaust system, but thats a lot of work/funds I don't have available to allocate to something that won't be an issue for months.

The only reason I worry about this now is because I need to get my lights / ventilation established and in working order before a single green leaf sees them. And If I am to exhaust into the attic I'll need to get that done before I make the major installations into the closet.

I really appreciate your knowledge and time to help me.

 

[messn'n'gommin']

Do you have a basement? It'll eat up a small amount of space, but you'll recapture the heat during winter and save from dumping A/C'ed air to the outside.



What is on the other side of the closet wall? I saw someone that had his vent attached to a sleeve that passed through the wall and covered with an air return grill, directly behind his fridge. As a plus any noise that came from it, was blamed on the fridge.

 

[RM - aquagrower]

Glad to help ya out. My only request is that ya repay the kindness by helping someone else down the road.

Didn't see it mentioned how ya plan to light up this room. Watts? Flat or vert? do ya have a seperate veg area, or is this it? I think that ya would do well with a single 1k hung bare vertically in the center and do a "weed donut".

Ideally ya want to exchange all grow room air 2x per min. With about 200 cu ft, this means after filter losses, ya prolly won't be able to slow the fan much.

Think I saw ya say that ya wanted to put the filter in the attic to save space? This mean ya are planning on having the filter at the end of the exhaust run? If so, ya would be better off to flip that plan around and hang the filter from the ceiling in the room, and elbow off the filter thru the ceiling. Then put the fan in the attic.

If ya have not seen this guy's exhaust set up https://www.icmag.com/ic/member.php?u=5589
ya should take a look.

A couple other things to concider are:

First, did ya know that roof deck temps often reach 170 degrees on a 90 degree day in the full sun? That's why it gets so damn hot in the attic. Once ya break the "thermal envelope" of the home, you could have issues radiating some of this heat into the grow.

Next, there is one more concequence to having the home in a neg air preasure situation. pests that float in on the air flow from outside the home. Wife like roses in the flower beds outside? So do spider mites.

I know that lots of guys vent into their attics and don't have any problems. I'm just not a big fan. But hey, if ya gotsta, ya gotsta.

 

[wildgrow]

First, did ya know that roof deck temps often reach 170 degrees on a 90 degree day in the full sun? That's why it gets so damn hot in the attic. Once ya break the "thermal envelope" of the home, you could have issues radiating some of this heat into the grow.

Next, there is one more concequence to having the home in a neg air preasure situation.

True dat! - as they say. The heat shuts me down for the 2 hottest months. Its almost impossible to keep it under 100*. If I weren't a renter Id put a hole in the roof.

Edit: My place is far from being a bubble - everything is drafty.

 

[LyryC]

Do you have a basement?
What is on the other side of the closet wall? I saw someone that had his vent attached to a sleeve that passed through the wall and covered with an air return grill, directly behind his fridge. As a plus any noise that came from it, was blamed on the fridge.

No basement.
Closet has wall on Westside/Northside of house. Shares a wall with the adjacent room closet and the southwall in the room durka.

I can't wait for my parents house in some years it has a nice big basement

Thanks MG!