The burden of proof is, unfortunately, solely on the person making an assertion.
I agree with all of this; I was more specifically questioning this claim:
Either way, thanks for sharing your thoughts!
-
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Clone of a Clone of a... Degredation Experiment
- Thread starter Regulator Dave
- Start date
Either way, thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Docleaf:
- I’m not trying to crap on what anyone’s said or anyone’s knowledge base or level, I just think we really need to be careful, because we really don’t know, and I think what we will find over time and with study is that epigenetic changes can occur in Cannabis in certain instances for a given reason at times, but also these changes may be reversible.
- Let me state though, all this talk of degrading over time does make me nervous, though I have not experienced it with any cutting from any cultivar or seed, and I have been gifted with an established one elite cultivar in particular that is a cutting of cuttings of cuttings of cuttings of cuttings, which was developed perhaps more than 20 years ago. I can’t imagine everyone who has had this cultivar was perfect with their environment, and I often ponder about the web of people cuttings have gone through over the years, and the traveling cuttings have gone through to get to me. I would like to make an S0 seed generation to observe uniformity as compared to the parent and parent cutting. I have never noticed a problem with a cutting over time throughout the life cycle from vegetation to senescence and harvest.
- I do not think every general environmental issue will incur a change, and I don’t think small stress every once in awhile (like over watering, or underwatering, over fertilization, under fertilization, going from 24/0 to 16/8 or other photoperiod, etc., is going to severely alter your plants genetics permanently (if it is even affecting genes at all), studies have been done that show Cannabis will adapt back and forth to a particular environmental factor, like light color).
- I’ve also been trying to track down the generation of cutting I possess for this one cultivar because of it’s importance to me, and now I’m labeling all my cuttings by generation from the seed parent and cutting parent. More work everyone might want to consider, giving an opportunity for people to document observations made over time, creating an informal pool of knowledge that real scientific leaps can be made from as scientists take up the work confirming one way or the other and developing mechanisms as to why and how one way or the other.
- To me, we know clones of clones have existed for a long time, and in terms of established well known strains like northern lights, bubblegum, skunk, etc., there haven’t been any reported genetic changes to my knowledge, and if there have been, smokers and growers alike haven’t noticed it in the product.
- I’ve asked the question, if genetic changes do occur with clones of clones, how many cuttings does it take before changes show up? And how long for either, cutting or mother, before age starts taking hold and causing (noticeable) changes?
- How can you say “to suggest otherwise” when there is no positive evidence for cuttings “degrading”? I’m just a little breathless here.
- Also, did you see this post by Sam the Skunkman? https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4092393&postcount=180
- Susceptibility does not mean a plant will acquire a virus or other pathogen; such has to be present and had come from somewhere, there is no spontaneous generation. I can agree that using a sterilized blade is good practice, but there is no evidence that cuttings made with such are inherently better somehow than those that root just fine with any pair of (dirty) scissors.
- But where is the evidence? I feel like everyone is just taking one side or the other based on what they have experienced and the little they know, which is really nothing, and this includes myself, because no one here is as far as I can know is a serious geneticist who will have even an inkling of what is actually happening at the genetic level, and a lot of this probably has to do with epigenetics, which is still an emerging field.
- I’m not trying to crap on what anyone’s said or anyone’s knowledge base or level, I just think we really need to be careful, because we really don’t know, and I think what we will find over time and with study is that epigenetic changes can occur in Cannabis in certain instances for a given reason at times, but also these changes may be reversible.
- Let me state though, all this talk of degrading over time does make me nervous, though I have not experienced it with any cutting from any cultivar or seed, and I have been gifted with an established one elite cultivar in particular that is a cutting of cuttings of cuttings of cuttings of cuttings, which was developed perhaps more than 20 years ago. I can’t imagine everyone who has had this cultivar was perfect with their environment, and I often ponder about the web of people cuttings have gone through over the years, and the traveling cuttings have gone through to get to me. I would like to make an S0 seed generation to observe uniformity as compared to the parent and parent cutting. I have never noticed a problem with a cutting over time throughout the life cycle from vegetation to senescence and harvest.
- I do not think every general environmental issue will incur a change, and I don’t think small stress every once in awhile (like over watering, or underwatering, over fertilization, under fertilization, going from 24/0 to 16/8 or other photoperiod, etc., is going to severely alter your plants genetics permanently (if it is even affecting genes at all), studies have been done that show Cannabis will adapt back and forth to a particular environmental factor, like light color).
- I’ve also been trying to track down the generation of cutting I possess for this one cultivar because of it’s importance to me, and now I’m labeling all my cuttings by generation from the seed parent and cutting parent. More work everyone might want to consider, giving an opportunity for people to document observations made over time, creating an informal pool of knowledge that real scientific leaps can be made from as scientists take up the work confirming one way or the other and developing mechanisms as to why and how one way or the other.
- To me, we know clones of clones have existed for a long time, and in terms of established well known strains like northern lights, bubblegum, skunk, etc., there haven’t been any reported genetic changes to my knowledge, and if there have been, smokers and growers alike haven’t noticed it in the product.
- I’ve asked the question, if genetic changes do occur with clones of clones, how many cuttings does it take before changes show up? And how long for either, cutting or mother, before age starts taking hold and causing (noticeable) changes?
- Sorry, but that is a bit backwards. Is there evidence to suggest it is existing or not the proper, “real” question, as there is no sound evidence to suggest it exists in Cannabis. The way you pose your question is more rhetorical and leaning towards fallacy.
- How can you say “to suggest otherwise” when there is no positive evidence for cuttings “degrading”? I’m just a little breathless here.
- Also, did you see this post by Sam the Skunkman? https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4092393&postcount=180
- Susceptibility does not mean a plant will acquire a virus or other pathogen; such has to be present and had come from somewhere, there is no spontaneous generation. I can agree that using a sterilized blade is good practice, but there is no evidence that cuttings made with such are inherently better somehow than those that root just fine with any pair of (dirty) scissors.
Microbeman:
I read back over your posts, you said the dispensary where you delivered the produce, and others who reported changes in cuttings to the dispensary, who reported back to you I assume, changes which you also noticed. I had confused things and thought you were getting cuttings from the dispensary, and then doing what you do My mistake, but not to big a deal.
Actually, this helps me a bit. Because it tells me that the changes appear to be uniform among those strains, and lends me more to feel that as time went on and everyone became more experienced with the plants they had, they noticed problems that were probably inherent to those strains to begin with.
- There is nothing I can do about the timing between my posts, I do not have readily available internet access. They keep me locked in a cellar with no light, food, or water, ok? J I still think sensible discussion can be made; we are having it now! Even with the passing of time what is said remains on the internet, and so discussions, even if exhaustive, can still be read and bantered over at a later date.
- I told you I was confused
I read back over your posts, you said the dispensary where you delivered the produce, and others who reported changes in cuttings to the dispensary, who reported back to you I assume, changes which you also noticed. I had confused things and thought you were getting cuttings from the dispensary, and then doing what you do My mistake, but not to big a deal.Actually, this helps me a bit. Because it tells me that the changes appear to be uniform among those strains, and lends me more to feel that as time went on and everyone became more experienced with the plants they had, they noticed problems that were probably inherent to those strains to begin with.
Don’t do that. There’s nothing I can say to that
My point in reversing the question,, is that few old clones survive or exist. Many people 'loose' clone lines a result of poor horticultural practise during the process of cloning. Note: we've been there and lost stock while working as clone suppliers 2000-2005.
Here is some evidence of 'old clone lines' that do survive :
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=206545
The genetics will stay the same,, but the expression of those genetics will change ... especially if they inherit plant pathogens and viruses... which usually stunts growth or disfigures leaf patterns.
It is important to remember that every plant holds its own metabolic rate / metabolism , which can be tampered
Much then depends on the lineage, health, condition, and treatment of the Mother plant / clone line ,, it's metabolism. This encompasses pressures ,, including the number of clones taken at any time and the environmental conditions surrounding the plant... and the overall stability or instability of the plant ,, in many different gardens, with different growers.
Even the healthiest mother-plant grows old and gnarled in time,, at which point the phyllotaxy or nodal-structure of the material taken, holds direct influence over the clones it produces in future IMO.
This is especially the case with really old (sativa dom) Mothers which often start to pre-flower in 24 or 18/6 cycles. The resulting clones carry preflowers,, and the clone line grows weaker in vigour ,,, and arguably flavour.
The same is true with mother plants which display hollow stems in their youth,, yet develop semi wooded stems in older age. The batches of clones you get from them,, and the way they grow,, is usually slightly different also.
Hope this helps
Here is some evidence of 'old clone lines' that do survive :
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=206545
The genetics will stay the same,, but the expression of those genetics will change ... especially if they inherit plant pathogens and viruses... which usually stunts growth or disfigures leaf patterns.
It is important to remember that every plant holds its own metabolic rate / metabolism , which can be tampered
Much then depends on the lineage, health, condition, and treatment of the Mother plant / clone line ,, it's metabolism. This encompasses pressures ,, including the number of clones taken at any time and the environmental conditions surrounding the plant... and the overall stability or instability of the plant ,, in many different gardens, with different growers.
Even the healthiest mother-plant grows old and gnarled in time,, at which point the phyllotaxy or nodal-structure of the material taken, holds direct influence over the clones it produces in future IMO.
This is especially the case with really old (sativa dom) Mothers which often start to pre-flower in 24 or 18/6 cycles. The resulting clones carry preflowers,, and the clone line grows weaker in vigour ,,, and arguably flavour.
The same is true with mother plants which display hollow stems in their youth,, yet develop semi wooded stems in older age. The batches of clones you get from them,, and the way they grow,, is usually slightly different also.
Hope this helps
You guys keep asking for proof lol like years of growing this shit isn't proof? lol.. I got your proof in my gro lol and this conversation is starting to get redundant..The onus is not on me to prove I'm right it's on you to prove I'm wrong lol.. start provin.... lol peace out Headband707
Why anecdotal evidence is not proof.
I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
We agree that the pressure of intensive cloning does not produce the same quality clones as those taken from rested mothers
Again much depends on the health of the material being worked with.
peace
Beta I normally wouldn't answer a post like yours but this one made me laugh lol.. Your "burden of proof ".. Well bro in this case it would work both ways so I say to you again "prove it" ... lol...As there are not many clones I would want to keep anymore and this is not how the plant utilizes it's reproduction then I would have to say I'm right and your WRONG !!!! LOL... don't worry though I already knew I was right lol.. Headband707
thats me ignorant LOL LOL awe that hurt coming from you LOL LOL LOL" NOT"
Seems to me that the ppl that are fucked up about this post are the ppl that must be making money off of "PLAYED OUT CLONES" LOL otherwise why would you give two shits .. Ppl just aren't as stupid as you think they are... They know that a cut has lost it and no one is going to tell me they have got the greatest cuts from yesteryear but no one else can see them? Nah fuck that bullshit as it's just more net bullshit... lol... Headband707
Article by Chris Jefferson
"Rosebud Magazine"
jan 20/2011
Unless you’re able to buy rooted clones from a medical dispensary or other reliable source, hydroponics motherplants are essential if cloning is the way you get new plants into your hydroponics garden. Here are the important things you need to know so you choose and maintain the best motherplants:
1) Motherplants grown from seed produce stronger hydroponics clones for longer (as compared to motherplants grown from clones).
2) It’s a bit of a hassle, but it’s best to monitor potential motherplants from the time they’re germinated or cloned all the way through at least one harvest, dry & cure cycle. You do this because the only way to really know if these are the hydroponics plants you want as motherplants is to sample the dried and cured harvest. So how do you regrow a harvested plant? See #5 below…
3) After you’ve monitored a start to finish season, and sampled your harvest, look at all your data on the plants. You’re looking for the ones that grew the fastest, matured the earliest, produced the largest, most potent hydroponics flowers that fit your maximum yield and enjoyment profile. Select as motherplants the ones that absolutely outperformed the other females grown at the same time.
4) Size up the space you have for your motherplants. They’ll be larger than your other plants. Properly trimmed motherplants are usually large-diameter or otherwise pretty wide; each one can take up 40 square feet or more and they require consistent 18-hour days of MH or a powerful LED panel like the Stealth Grow. You don’t want to skimp on the environmental factors your hydroponics motherplants grow in. Light, water, climate control and space should be at ideal levels so your mothers store lots of strength and energy that will serve you well at cloning time.
5) Here’s how you harvest a plant without completely killing it…so you can rejuvenate it. Before harvest, and based on what you’ve observed of them all along, choose the plants that could work as mothers. When you harvest them, you leave 20% of the lower branches and leaves. Then you reduce the amount of water you give them, put them back on grow phase nutrients, and stick them under 18 hours of grow phase light. In a few days or weeks, they’ll kick themselves back into grow phase. Before then, you’ll have tasted what you harvested from them, and you’ll know if you want to keep them as mothers or not. If not, you cut them to the ground. The flowers you left on when you harvested the first time will still be potent.
6) Trim and thin your hydroponics motherplants as they rejuvenate. You want several strong main branches that produce several side shoots each. You don’t want an impossibly bushy plant with leaves and shoots so dense that aeration is impossible inside the plant canopy.
7) Grow your motherplants in their own perpetual veg chamber. Feed them high quality nutrients, light and water. It’s best not to try to grow them in the same room with younger grow phase crops. Every four months, check the size of the root ball to ensure your motherplant isn’t rootbound. If you have to transplant to a larger container, wait at least two weeks after that before you take cuttings (transplanting is a stressor that can affect the vigor of your hydroponics cuttings).
8) Only add C02 to your mother room chamber if you want faster growth. Be aware that this could backfire on you if your mothers grow too fast or busy, requiring more trimming to keep them manageable.
9) Do not take cuttings from the very top of your hydroponics motherplant, or from the very bottom. Instead, take cuttings from the most vigorous shoots on the tips of stems located on middle third of the plant. If you pay close attention to your plants, you’ll see that this section is usually the one with the fastest growing shoots. These shoots have a lot of vigor and nutrients onboard, which leads to a higher success rate for your clones.
10) If you take more than a handful of clones from your motherplant, give the plant at least three weeks to recover before you take more cuttings. Give the motherplant a dose of organic hydroponics Vitamin B hydroponics formula after each cutting session.
11) Hydroponics motherplant genetics will weaken. Cloning your motherplant to produce another motherplant is popular, but it doesn’t give you the most vigorous cuttings. I highly recommend that you import new genetics via seed into your hydroponics garden. Use them to breed with cherished motherplants that are more than 12 months old. Then start all over again with the motherplant selection process. Not only will you ensure the most vigorous mothers, but you'll get to upgrade your genetics and bring new qualities to your flowers.
Dim lights Embed Hydroponics motherplants secrets just for you
There are many other tidbits of information we can share with each other so we get the most out of hydroponics motherplants and cloning, and you’ll get that information here in later articles. For now, recognize that hydroponics motherplants are a way for you to maintain your favorite females and produce cuttings. Combined with new genetics from seed-grown crops, motherplants are an integral part of a successful, high-yielding hydroponics strategy.
Seems to me that the ppl that are fucked up about this post are the ppl that must be making money off of "PLAYED OUT CLONES" LOL otherwise why would you give two shits .. Ppl just aren't as stupid as you think they are... They know that a cut has lost it and no one is going to tell me they have got the greatest cuts from yesteryear but no one else can see them? Nah fuck that bullshit as it's just more net bullshit... lol... Headband707
Article by Chris Jefferson
"Rosebud Magazine"
jan 20/2011
Unless you’re able to buy rooted clones from a medical dispensary or other reliable source, hydroponics motherplants are essential if cloning is the way you get new plants into your hydroponics garden. Here are the important things you need to know so you choose and maintain the best motherplants:
1) Motherplants grown from seed produce stronger hydroponics clones for longer (as compared to motherplants grown from clones).
2) It’s a bit of a hassle, but it’s best to monitor potential motherplants from the time they’re germinated or cloned all the way through at least one harvest, dry & cure cycle. You do this because the only way to really know if these are the hydroponics plants you want as motherplants is to sample the dried and cured harvest. So how do you regrow a harvested plant? See #5 below…
3) After you’ve monitored a start to finish season, and sampled your harvest, look at all your data on the plants. You’re looking for the ones that grew the fastest, matured the earliest, produced the largest, most potent hydroponics flowers that fit your maximum yield and enjoyment profile. Select as motherplants the ones that absolutely outperformed the other females grown at the same time.
4) Size up the space you have for your motherplants. They’ll be larger than your other plants. Properly trimmed motherplants are usually large-diameter or otherwise pretty wide; each one can take up 40 square feet or more and they require consistent 18-hour days of MH or a powerful LED panel like the Stealth Grow. You don’t want to skimp on the environmental factors your hydroponics motherplants grow in. Light, water, climate control and space should be at ideal levels so your mothers store lots of strength and energy that will serve you well at cloning time.
5) Here’s how you harvest a plant without completely killing it…so you can rejuvenate it. Before harvest, and based on what you’ve observed of them all along, choose the plants that could work as mothers. When you harvest them, you leave 20% of the lower branches and leaves. Then you reduce the amount of water you give them, put them back on grow phase nutrients, and stick them under 18 hours of grow phase light. In a few days or weeks, they’ll kick themselves back into grow phase. Before then, you’ll have tasted what you harvested from them, and you’ll know if you want to keep them as mothers or not. If not, you cut them to the ground. The flowers you left on when you harvested the first time will still be potent.
6) Trim and thin your hydroponics motherplants as they rejuvenate. You want several strong main branches that produce several side shoots each. You don’t want an impossibly bushy plant with leaves and shoots so dense that aeration is impossible inside the plant canopy.
7) Grow your motherplants in their own perpetual veg chamber. Feed them high quality nutrients, light and water. It’s best not to try to grow them in the same room with younger grow phase crops. Every four months, check the size of the root ball to ensure your motherplant isn’t rootbound. If you have to transplant to a larger container, wait at least two weeks after that before you take cuttings (transplanting is a stressor that can affect the vigor of your hydroponics cuttings).
8) Only add C02 to your mother room chamber if you want faster growth. Be aware that this could backfire on you if your mothers grow too fast or busy, requiring more trimming to keep them manageable.
9) Do not take cuttings from the very top of your hydroponics motherplant, or from the very bottom. Instead, take cuttings from the most vigorous shoots on the tips of stems located on middle third of the plant. If you pay close attention to your plants, you’ll see that this section is usually the one with the fastest growing shoots. These shoots have a lot of vigor and nutrients onboard, which leads to a higher success rate for your clones.
10) If you take more than a handful of clones from your motherplant, give the plant at least three weeks to recover before you take more cuttings. Give the motherplant a dose of organic hydroponics Vitamin B hydroponics formula after each cutting session.
11) Hydroponics motherplant genetics will weaken. Cloning your motherplant to produce another motherplant is popular, but it doesn’t give you the most vigorous cuttings. I highly recommend that you import new genetics via seed into your hydroponics garden. Use them to breed with cherished motherplants that are more than 12 months old. Then start all over again with the motherplant selection process. Not only will you ensure the most vigorous mothers, but you'll get to upgrade your genetics and bring new qualities to your flowers.
Dim lights Embed Hydroponics motherplants secrets just for you
There are many other tidbits of information we can share with each other so we get the most out of hydroponics motherplants and cloning, and you’ll get that information here in later articles. For now, recognize that hydroponics motherplants are a way for you to maintain your favorite females and produce cuttings. Combined with new genetics from seed-grown crops, motherplants are an integral part of a successful, high-yielding hydroponics strategy.
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softyellowlight
Active member
I'm sorry but if you have problems with cuttings then that is grower error being introduced, almost certainly not genetic error. Moreover, if I was that concerned about the trunk and roots not forming properly on something, I'd sooner take a healthy plant and graft it on to grow out of and subsequently take clones from (specifically that branch). "Degradation" indeed.
headband707:
- You have not evidenced any claim you have made, rather, you simply rail against the hard evidence that obliterates your nonsensical statements. The article you posted is nonsense, not science, and I stopped reading it after the first line about seed plants.
- What is a “played out clone”?? Is there ANY science behind that phrase? Is there ANY actual meaning there?
- If your attitude in real life is anything like your attitude online, I am not surprised you have not come across any of these elite cuts. I know I wouldn’t give you the time of day, let alone give you access to cultivars possessed.
- You have not evidenced any claim you have made, rather, you simply rail against the hard evidence that obliterates your nonsensical statements. The article you posted is nonsense, not science, and I stopped reading it after the first line about seed plants.
DocLeaf:
- Reversing the question makes it fallacious, it is wrong to ask the question in that manner.
- That thread really doesn’t have much information, perhaps it will in the future. There is good information in various books on older strains if one looks, I would rather not go on memory, but I know there are a few strains from the 80s and 70s hanging around.
- I don’t know what you mean “sativa dominant”, ALL Cannabis is Cannabis sativa going by typical taxonomical ranking, and I will not accept an approach to Cannabis that splits up the species until there is some very good evidence that shows such.
- I don’t know how true that statement is, perhaps it is true, but at least a few people here, in this very thread, have surviving old clones and find no problems.
- Reversing the question makes it fallacious, it is wrong to ask the question in that manner.
- That thread really doesn’t have much information, perhaps it will in the future. There is good information in various books on older strains if one looks, I would rather not go on memory, but I know there are a few strains from the 80s and 70s hanging around.
- Yes, but I believe we were discussing both alterations at the root genetic level, as well as epigenetic changes, which both can occur for various reasons, but do they occur in Cannabis, and when and why, remains for the most part still to be seen.
- Well, realistically any aspect or trait can be tampered with, those are the epigenetic factors, the inherent rate set genetically.
- I am hesitant to think any particular stress factor will cause an epigenetic change (like taking lots of clones at one time), I would rather know if a factor is causing a change or not, and what kind of change, and work on a case by case basis than make sweeping generalizations. Also, epigenetic changes can be reversed, what is turned on can be turned off, and vice versa
- Like I said, I have cuttings of cuttings from a 20+ year old cultivar, and in no vegetating plant from any strain have I ever seen old and gnarled growth when grown using decent environmental conditions and cared for properly. It doesn’t make sense a plant will start growing funny and die if being vegetated indefinitely just due to time.
- All Cannabis plants will grow pre-flowers of some form under any vegetative photoperiod as far as I know. Clones (cuttings) are just the same as the mother they came from, and you would only know it is a mother (as opposed to a father) because of the pre-flowers. Never noticed any weakness in vigor or flavor, definitely not. Actually, I notice the better you grow something, the better it is.
- I don’t know what you mean “sativa dominant”, ALL Cannabis is Cannabis sativa going by typical taxonomical ranking, and I will not accept an approach to Cannabis that splits up the species until there is some very good evidence that shows such.
- Cannabis stems are naturally hollow, but with age of course grow and stems will harden greatly. The inner pith may grow to an extent that the stem is no longer really hollow, but I’ve never heard of this, rather I’ve seen large thick stems and when cut, you can easily see they are hollow.
- This all sounds spurious, especially considering cuttings I have received and where they came from, having seen those cuttings and their products under differing conditions in different places. Have you gone over the various papers given by everyone in this thread?
i got some solid stems now . want a pic??
headband707:- What is a “played out clone”?? Is there ANY science behind that phrase? Is there ANY actual meaning there?
- If your attitude in real life is anything like your attitude online, I am not surprised you have not come across any of these elite cuts. I know I wouldn’t give you the time of day, let alone give you access to cultivars possessed.
Do you mean do I bow to assholes to get cannabis?? like your post is suggesting????? Nah but you go right ahead as I really hate the smell of shit on my nose... LOL Headband707
If you seriously can't decipher the phrase "Played out clone" then maybe you shouldn't be on this thread lol
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- You have to not be an asshole to get Cannabis, that is what I am suggesting
- Well if you don’t like good shit suit yourself it doesn’t bother me.
- Are you asking me a rhetorical question or if I literally know and understand what you mean by your meaningless unscientific jumble of words?
- There is nothing to decipher, because your phrase is meaningless; it’s just something you made up. The fact that your concept is on it’s basis comprehensible doesn’t mean anything, you and everyone else will have no problem accepting and understanding the basis and premises of the phrase “holy ghost explosion”, but the actual literal acceptance of such a thing would only happen if one were insane, because there are no holy ghosts (especially none proven to exist, and I don’t need to prove they don’t, don’t get fallacious on me), and they can’t/don’t explode, that is ridiculous. So the phrase thus is literally meaningless and just a garble of words strung together that kind of sticks, just like “played out clone”.
“Is that what they looked like? They look like psychos? They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them I don’t give a fuck how crazy they are Carlos!”
- Ok so maybe some supernatural beings can explode. Hm. Remember that movie Lost Boys...
- So to re-ask the question; played out how? What EXACTLY do you mean? And where is the evidence for any of your claims as to how cuttings and plants become “played out”? And do plants from seed ( as opposed to cuttings) vegetated indefinitely become “played out” like you claim cuttings become? Why or why not?
- I don’t think you can really answer, because you don’t really know, and any answer you give has no basis in evidence, rather I figure that you will make up the answer you want, as you have been doing now, and that becomes your reality. I know many people with this sort of issue; that whatever happens to come out of their mouth at that time is reality (and must be accepted).
- I’m a scientist (at least I’d like to think so), and saying to me “oooh it’s a played out clone” doesn’t mean anything in the real world, or the scientific realm. It doesn’t mean anything to a horticulturalist, and someone who would use such a phrase doesn’t seem to know much about biology or how to use scientific dialogue and descriptions to explain observations made in and of reality in an understandable and digestible manner. This is a science forum after all, (or it is supposed to be).
- I should just delete this post. I should just walk away. I read the sign. I have a hard head. We’ll see how this goes.
- You have to not be an asshole to get Cannabis, that is what I am suggesting
- Well if you don’t like good shit suit yourself it doesn’t bother me.- Are you asking me a rhetorical question or if I literally know and understand what you mean by your meaningless unscientific jumble of words?
- There is nothing to decipher, because your phrase is meaningless; it’s just something you made up. The fact that your concept is on it’s basis comprehensible doesn’t mean anything, you and everyone else will have no problem accepting and understanding the basis and premises of the phrase “holy ghost explosion”, but the actual literal acceptance of such a thing would only happen if one were insane, because there are no holy ghosts (especially none proven to exist, and I don’t need to prove they don’t, don’t get fallacious on me), and they can’t/don’t explode, that is ridiculous. So the phrase thus is literally meaningless and just a garble of words strung together that kind of sticks, just like “played out clone”.
“Is that what they looked like? They look like psychos? They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them I don’t give a fuck how crazy they are Carlos!”
- Ok so maybe some supernatural beings can explode. Hm. Remember that movie Lost Boys...
- So to re-ask the question; played out how? What EXACTLY do you mean? And where is the evidence for any of your claims as to how cuttings and plants become “played out”? And do plants from seed ( as opposed to cuttings) vegetated indefinitely become “played out” like you claim cuttings become? Why or why not?
- I don’t think you can really answer, because you don’t really know, and any answer you give has no basis in evidence, rather I figure that you will make up the answer you want, as you have been doing now, and that becomes your reality. I know many people with this sort of issue; that whatever happens to come out of their mouth at that time is reality (and must be accepted).
- I’m a scientist (at least I’d like to think so), and saying to me “oooh it’s a played out clone” doesn’t mean anything in the real world, or the scientific realm. It doesn’t mean anything to a horticulturalist, and someone who would use such a phrase doesn’t seem to know much about biology or how to use scientific dialogue and descriptions to explain observations made in and of reality in an understandable and digestible manner. This is a science forum after all, (or it is supposed to be).
- I should just delete this post. I should just walk away. I read the sign. I have a hard head. We’ll see how this goes.
LOL LOL LOL are you serious LOL LOL LOL cause if you really just wrote all this BULLSHIT for the "PLAYED OUT CLONES" then bro you are completely and utterly strange LOL peace out Headband707
Oh your first line is classic .. "You do not have to be an asshole to get cannabis." But you are an asshole if you try and hold it over ppl's heads and act like this shit actually belongs to you and you alone. So ya your right you don't have to be an asshole to get it ,IMVHO your more an asshole when you hoard it and say shit like" only me closest friends get the good shit." Now thats an asshole ....
now I'm just going to assume from your last rantings you didn't actually read the info posted in this thread by me lol...
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