Cheap Nutrient Line for Commercial and Home Grows?

[BillFarthing]

aikaramba It's alkaline extracted meaning you are going to use much more pH down and it isn't going to buffer pH like neutral or acidic formulations. There's also significant Fe and B, with no mention of other minerals. Is it better than Ful-Power? Yup. Is it the ideal fulvic? I couldn't tell you without more documentation.

RyanR Salicylic acid throws plants into SAR, which may mean more frost but lower yields. Low doses of triacontanol may be beneficial, but overdoing it gives you stringy buds like Dr. Grinspoon. I don't know a beneficial dosage or any commercial cannabis products that use either effectively.

If you want more terpenes, just dry and cure properly to retain the terps that are there.

 

[RyanR]

How much yield reduction we talking? If the quality boost was enough overall it would almost seem the yield reduction would be nil if the end product was worth more.


"Advanced nutrients- Bud Candy Organic* was recently found to contain salicylic acid
Advanced nutrients- Bud Candy> contains salicylic acid
Advanced nutrients- Bud factor X> contains salicylic acid
Humboldt county's own- Snowstorm ultra> contains salicylic acid
Heavy 16- Fire, Fire> contains salicylic acid also contains idole-3-butyric acid.
Cutting Edge Solutions- Uncle John's Blend> contains salicylic acid
Mills- C4> contains salicylic acid
NPK- Stack> contains salicylic acid
Green Planets- Finish> contains salicylic acid
Vegamatrix- Boost> contains salicylic acid
Rambridge- Frost protection plus> contains salicylic acid
Vital Grow- Thunder Bloom> contains salicylic acid
Optic Foliar- AT-AK> contains salicylic acid
SM-90 contains salicylic acid.
Optic Foliar- Overgro> contains salicylic acid and 3-indoleacetic
acid."

 

[BillFarthing]

All those came off of a list of recalled products. LOL.

Proper drying and curing for terps is better than adding any product. I'm looking to reduce operating costs and products in my garden, not add them. My plants yield great and test high TAC without it. Definitely let me know if you find a good dosage for cannabis, but I don't want to risk lower yields by intentionally throwing plants into SAR.

 

[RyanR]

Recalled how so? Majority of products on that list still being sold. You can't have enough terpenes . I see hundreds of examples of product and very few is what I would call 100% AAA Top shelf. Maybe if the terpene content was higher before the cure the end result would be a better product. I've smoked very few products that on exhale the flavor explosion still continues where I have no choice but to say holy crap this shit came out perfect. The market is flooded by boof and product that's just pretty good.


I agree proper long dry down/ cure is absolutely important but may as well have maximum terpene and tricome production that's what keeps people drooling , paying more, which keeps hype and demand.

No right or wrong way to skin a cat. Thinking light quality has a bigger impact then I once thought. Super terpenes always fetch the high dollar well here anyway.

How many days does curing / drying take you?

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Triacontanol will not increase your terpenes if something in your grow was lacking where your terps were not to potential, it may increase resin and production but if timed wrong it will generate the wrong type of growth meaning more mass of popcorn bud or too much leaf, it definitely can make shit go turbo if all other factors are being met..if you want terpenes you need to work on your environment and a proper organic soil with right amount of pigshit will give you the best terps, with added sugars, microbes, AAC teas and also balanced salts with micronutes to makes sure no base left untouched..then you will get premium terps...to the best potential of your genetic.

Which is the limiting factor and crux always...the terps of my 80's skunk, grown shit, in salts, in hot room, with underwatering, with a quick dry and no cure and no flush even, will still shit on the terps you'll get from 999 seeds you germinate out of 1000 from seed packs, grown the best way in living soil with lots of sulfur and lots of love and perfect dry and cure etc. Though grown properly you'll have to look through thousands of plants to find one that has that all pervasive penetrating lingering stench of that skunk..it all comes down to genetics in the end, but it is all part of a pie graph of things that when met, make up top shelf..we been smoking topshelf before there was even a term for it..LOL I smoke hash, or oil mostly...if I smoke flower its either top shelf or some whispy leafy old sticky skunky hazey thing that blows my taste buds and mind into outer space...or my skunk..which was found out hundreds of sisters/girls long time ago, so nothing much has changed.

I grow with salts, as I grow on a large commercial scale and the practicality of organic on a commercial scale even much smaller than this just becomes impossible or a major PITA, though I use organic inputs like amino acids and fulvic acid, we don't purchase in bottles by any brand but in IBC flowbins that the brands are just rebottling up and selling to you guys, and the organic inputs do help terps 100% but a balanced diet with lots of sulfur and the right environment and and and make a big difference and no one ever complained that my weed isn't terpy enough..infact when I was underground, my weed always got a premium and it was always top shelf and it was grown in indoor hydro, or outdoor organic 1000L raised beds, or greenhouse with salts and organic or sugars etc..no one at retail ever noticed the difference (and I always got my price I asked on wholesale irrespective of how I grew it, I'd tell guys how it was grown to be honest to them and theyd be like yeah whatever, we dont care, how much you got i'll take it all), end consumers just knew the product from the terps, wouldn't care as well how it was grown..open the bag and you'd know my skunk..open the bag a week after it was empty and you'd still know my skunk..but that would be genetics then..and growing it well, either which way. Many ways to skin the cat (or skunk), but always comes down to the genetics..

I grew hundreds of tester plants this year and the most of the most terpy came from old sams beans from the bou and old chimera beans with old blueberry and old haze lines in there, things like lemon cello, GFxBB, old skunk and haze x's, simply irresistable simply shat on most of the competition of modern pretenders in terms of terps...but most would not have a form that today would be considered marketable..but most of the modern stuff had terps that in the old days would not be considered marketable, or when they did they had a form that yielded for shit..so.... somewhere in the middle is where its at, and it aint found in a bottle .. its a whole bigger picture..

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

So you gotta ask yourself what terpenes you after and start from there...which genetics' rank stanking parents, are known for those terps, and work your way from there while germinating as much shit known to be of marketable form and super terpy from those or similar lines....and back to nutes LOL..

 

[aikaramba]

Triacontanol can help with plant vigor but does not increase terpenes. 0,1 ppm is a suitable dosage, but keep in mind you have to dissolve it in tween20.
I prefer a kelp/fulvic foliar once a week (50ppm kelp, 200ppm fulvic) as a plant boost, but if you're after Tria, try Vitazyme which is also gave me very good results.

Terpenes can be increased by everything provoking a SAR but you have to be careful to not impact yield. I found chitosan to be effective without any noticable yield decrease at 125 ppm. Since SAR is more or less an immune reaction of the plant, each strain has different terpenes/secondary metabolites it uses to defend itself. This means SAR does not uniformely increase terpenes but those the plants uses for defense. This can alter the original terpene profile which might be good for some strains but not for others. Another basic thing you can do is increase sulfur. Especially for Sour/OG/Chem strains this helps with the stank and I've come to believe that much of the "funk" we all crave rom these strains is not from terpenes but rather thiols/sulfur compunds which have super intense odors at incredibly tiny concrentations

 

[BillFarthing]

The point of this thread is to grow fire without a huge budget or tons of additives.

 

[aikaramba]

The point of this thread is to grow fire without a huge budget or tons of additives.

I'm totally with you on keeping it simple, and while everything you suggest works perfectly, I think there is always room for improvement - which is what I'm trying on a budget, no snake oils. 2g of Tria for 20 bucks will last the home grower a lifetime, 1kg of kelp for 30$ at 50 ppm foliar as well. Just sharing what worked best for me

 

[mexweed]

Whenever you hear Chemdog or any of the east coast sour crew talking about growing it's always very basic fox farm gh 3 part etc, what came first JJ growing some poopy onion chem or this new sulfur trend

 

[H G Griffin]

Whenever you hear Chemdog or any of the east coast sour crew talking about growing it's always very basic fox farm gh 3 part etc, what came first JJ growing some poopy onion chem or this new sulfur trend

GH 3 part may be basic, but it is also many times more expensive than dry salts as you pay big bucks for the water they've pre-mixed in. Check the first word of the thread title.

 

[mexweed]

That's not what I meant, ​​​nasty smells and bud density are in the genetics

I'm actually about to start some BF style hempy with masterblend, mkp, mr fulvic, and armor si, I'm going to do a couple warm up runs before I pop any of my more prized beans but I am confident things like the Topdawg chem sisXsour bx will come out gnarly

 

[Glaucksbacon]

That's not what I meant, ​​​nasty smells and bud density are in the genetics

I'm actually about to start some BF style hempy with masterblend, mkp, mr fulvic, and armor si, I'm going to do a couple warm up runs before I pop any of my more prized beans but I am confident things like the Topdawg chem sisXsour bx will come out gnarly

Mex please consider doing homemade hammerhead instead of straight MKP, it's definitely worth the $$ to mix up, and MKP is still the dominant ingredient.

http://opensalts.wikidot.com/an-hammerhead-0-9-18

 

[BillFarthing]

please consider doing homemade hammerhead instead of straight MKP

http://opensalts.wikidot.com/an-hammerhead-0-9-18

Better yield, better quality finished product compared to heavy phosphorus usage. Use homemade hammerhead week 5-6 of flower at 1g/gallon. It seems insignificant, but the results are awesome.

 

[mexweed]

Cool I was going to do 0.5g/gal 4-6 with the mkp which is a little less than the amount in 1g hammerhead, I will get some potassium and extra epsom on the way

 

[Principante8]

Hi Bill, I'm running the Head Coco recipe because I have a few gallons of GH that I just pulled out of storage. I also have about six gallons of Ful Power. After it's gone I'm excited to try Jacks and the rest of your recipe. My question is should I follow the bottle on the ful power or go with less ? Thanks

 

[BillFarthing]

Ful-Power is like sex in a canoe. It's f*cking close to water.

You're not going to overdo it using 10-30ml/gallon of that stuff.

 

[Principante8]

Thanks Bill. I have another question for you if you don't mind. Do you think I'll get better results just ditching the GH and going with Jack's? Turns out I have almost ten gallons of micro and and only about two gallons of bloom. I used the GH 6/9 for a few years with good results but it's my first crop in five years and times are changing..I just pulled this stuff out of my storage unit and it still works great. Is Jack's really better? Or would you say on par but much less expensive?

 

[BillFarthing]

Lucas/Head's formulas are budget shortcuts from the hydro store that are low on calcium. Calcium is the engine of metabolism of the plant.

Jack's is good and a much more complete recipe, although I personally prefer to have more calcium than nitrates.

 

[Principante8]

Thanks Bill. My usual recipe included GH 6/9, epsom, power si, drip clean, multi zen, roots accelerator, b'cuzz grow/ bloom (old school black bottles), big bud, MOAB, ful power, and rhizotonic for clones. My results were on par with or better than running the whole H&G line so I stuck with it for a while. Despite the plants being incredibly healthy I felt something was lacking but couldn't quite place it. Maybe the calcium was the issue the whole time? I stayed away from calmag because the nitrogen wasn't what I was looking for. This time I added the Mendocino flowering cal mag for the calcium instead of just Epsom salt.

Which of Jack's products would you recommend if I'm using RO water? I think I'll buy some next week when my bloom jug runs out. I'm thinking I'll stick with the power si, flowering Cal mag, the fulvic you recommended earlier in the thread the (name of which I can't remember at the moment).

I felt that B'cuzz bloom always enhanced the flavor and made the colors a slight bit more vibrant. I always told everybody it'll bring your product from a 9.5 to a 9.7. just a teeny tiny bit of that something extra. I know it's basically just some sort of fancy seaweed formulation. Any recommendations on a replacement for that? Thanks again, I really appreciate it.