Cheap Nutrient Line for Commercial and Home Grows?

[ledtime]

Mr. Fulvic is totally soluble, but is still an organic product. If you use a strong oxidizer like hypochlorous acid, it's going to create biofilm from that organic matter. I think the company would say to use as a foliar in veg/transition if using something like UC Roots.



Bro science at it's finest. Most cannabis growers use way too much phosphorus that either has to be flushed out or your flowers burn black. Skip the MKP. Use Homemade Hammerhead if you feel you must have a bloom booster. It's why I've posted the tissue sample results several times in this thread.

Also, if I run my circulating pump in my reservoir too much it warms up the advanced nutrients stuff and creates that film. It seems as though it plays on the sugars in the solution. If I only activate my pump ever hour or so for a few minutes to stir it then I get no film. Not sure if that is similar to what you are talking about. I know there are organics in the advanced nutrients line as they have told me as much. They say it's part of what allows the uptake over such a broad PH range?

 

[BillFarthing]

In hydroponics, hypochlorous acid (Athena Cleans, UC Roots) is used to keep the reservoir sterile. It doesn't play well with organic inputs, just salts.

It could be a bunch of things making a film, sugars, chitosan/silica/fulvic not playing well together . . . Fulvic acid allows the uptake of nutrients across wider pH ranges because it acts like an electrolyte in the cell.

 

[ledtime]

In hydroponics, hypochlorous acid (Athena Cleans, UC Roots) is used to keep the reservoir sterile. It doesn't play well with organic inputs, just salts.

It could be a bunch of things making a film, sugars, chitosan/silica/fulvic not playing well together . . . Fulvic acid allows the uptake of nutrients across wider pH ranges because it acts like an electrolyte in the cell.

Hmmm, I currently don't run anything like Athena or UC in my reservoir at all. So long as I keep the temps at 75degrees F or lower I don't have any films. I disinfect the reservoir every week with 29% peroxide.

So it would seem that this jacks program is almost exactly the same as the advanced nutrient line I'm using. Just a lot less money.

 

[ledtime]

In hydroponics, hypochlorous acid (Athena Cleans, UC Roots) is used to keep the reservoir sterile. It doesn't play well with organic inputs, just salts.

It could be a bunch of things making a film, sugars, chitosan/silica/fulvic not playing well together . . . Fulvic acid allows the uptake of nutrients across wider pH ranges because it acts like an electrolyte in the cell.

Bill, this is the description AN has for what I'm currently using. Does it seem to fit with what you do with Mr. Fulvic and Jacks?

"After hundreds of man-hours, our R&D team has perfectly formulated all the primary, secondary and micronutrients your crops need for outstanding growth. Because these ingredients are all supplied fully or partially chelated in pH Perfect Sensi Grow – some even in multiple chelated forms – your plants will absorb them effortlessly. What’s more, they will benefit from a wide range of amino acids to power the construction of cell walls in roots, stems and leaves. You’ll also witness amazing results from the humic acids and powerful non-ionic surfactant, which form a multi-stage delivery matrix to ensure your plants absorb the powerful nutrients you’re feeding them. And if that weren’t enough, you can throw away your pH meters and pens forever. Our proprietary pH Perfect[SUP]®[/SUP] Technology will keep the pH in the ‘sweet spot’ every week of the grow phase, with no measuring or tweaking"

 

[Legalcdn]

Mr. Fulvic is totally soluble, but is still an organic product. If you use a strong oxidizer like hypochlorous acid, it's going to create biofilm from that organic matter. I think the company would say to use as a foliar in veg/transition if using something like UC Roots.



Bro science at it's finest. Most cannabis growers use way too much phosphorus that either has to be flushed out or your flowers burn black. Skip the MKP. Use Homemade Hammerhead if you feel you must have a bloom booster. It's why I've posted the tissue sample results several times in this thread.

Not sure where the bro science is at its finest. Would it not be accompanied with a lot of misleading info? MKP and potassium silicate can make AN Hammerhead.

i do prefer Greenleaf nutrients bud explosion 0-19-39 which is basically AN Hammerhead ratio.

Everything in moderation.

Happy growing.

 

[unregistered190]

Excellent thread Bill, thanks for all the info.

 

[f-e]

Bill could you help me locate a nutrient calculator that can tell me the PPMs of Jacks @ 3/2.5? I’d like to dial back the nitrogen in bloom after transition but would like exact numbers.

Did you ever run the numbers? I find the apps looked like rocket science so have the calculator out and it's difficult..

Bills cost analysis suggests 1.5g per liter of 5-12-26 giving 75-80-324
Later calnit is spoke of as a 3:2 ratio. Making it 225-80-324-190

That wound indeed be high N based on most studies. With Ca beyond any bottled feed I have seen. My heads shot right now though. I need some support

 

[Legalcdn]

Jacks
3 grms per gal: 373 ppm
.79 grm per litre : 98.55 ppm

Cal-nit (yara)
2.5 grm per gal : 228 ppm
.66 grms per litre : 60.2 ppm

121-41-171 cal-mag-sulf : 125-50-67

3gr + 2.5gr = 1.55 EC

 

[mexweed]

isn't the 321 already proven as in you can just follow it and not worry about measuring ppm etc, I'm thinking 1/2 strength for seedlings, and every other/less is more with the supplements

 

[f-e]

isn't the 321 already proven as in you can just follow it and not worry about measuring ppm etc, I'm thinking 1/2 strength for seedlings, and every other/less is more with the supplements

You can't measure PPM's. He calculated them. He measured EC. Any meter claiming to read PPM is telling you a bedtime story.
Not all substrates are the same, so it's not a 'one size fits all' recipe, if you are shooting for gold. This really isn't a thread for dumbing things down. I'm very interested as I'm also in coco and looking at the calcium to potassium ratios, with Mg being very important in that equation. In soil, calcium's significance is so low, some feeds don't bother. In coco, it's very important to keep feeding it in, to keep the coco working. The less is more technique will quickly ruin a coco grow.

 

[f-e]

Jacks
3 grms per gal: 373 ppm
.79 grm per litre : 98.55 ppm

Cal-nit (yara)
2.5 grm per gal : 228 ppm
.66 grms per litre : 60.2 ppm

142-41-171 cal-mag-sulf : 125-50-67

3gr + 2.5gr = 1.55 EC

Thanks Pal. It looks like I was tipping the whole box in That's a very typical looking outcome

 

[mexweed]

found this koots feed chart using 321 in a mix of 8 quarts perlite per 50 liters coco recommends presoaking the coir in calmag at 5ml/gallon, has some microbe supplementation too

https://kootmed.com/.downloads/FEED/JACKS-3-2-1.pdf

 

[Legalcdn]

Thanks Pal. It looks like I was tipping the whole box in That's a very typical looking outcome

I made a mistake on the N.

NPK is 121-41-171 with CAL-MAG-SULF @ 125-50-67.
I like to add the fulvic acid as per Bill's recommendation.

i found using the 3-2-1 with fulvic provides great results. Every other feed i reduce a little jacks and calnit for one feed.

I will be starting up the zac tribute, mountain gold and purp sat (greenmountain seeds) in august. Hope to dust a few branches to get F1 seeds.

 

[f-e]

That's strange. I'm getting about 140.
Jacks is 5% giving about 40, then calnit 15% giving about 100

I did notice a mistake, but just a 'one too many' error. When you converted from imperial to metric, you divided the PPM's

I guess it's even later in the day now

 

[Legalcdn]

That's strange. I'm getting about 140.
Jacks is 5% giving about 40, then calnit 15% giving about 100

I did notice a mistake, but just a 'one too many' error. When you converted from imperial to metric, you divided the PPM's

I guess it's even later in the day now

3 grams of jacks and calnit (yara 15.5%) comes to 121 of N.

3.6 grams comes close to 140ish..

I didn't convert, just showed in gallon and for the rest of the world (except 3 countries in the world still using imperial) the metric ppm per liter.

i use a nice excel spreadsheet with tons of nute formulas.

 

[f-e]

I just ran it properly. Your 140 looked so right in my mind, until I actually wrote it all out. I got 125ppm but lost some accuracy with rounding.

We can buy these ratio's in the UK, by the Kg, for a tenner. https://greenleafnutrients.com/europe/
Sent out within the UK only, since Brexit.

 

[Legalcdn]

I can't lie, the megacrop (1 part) and bud explosion last year worked flawless in DTW. No def with tap water. The bud explosion has a mild ratio of 0-19-39 that can be diluted. I would buy the 2 part but i have lots of jacks 5-12-26.

I can send PM if you want this spreadsheet for calculations. It has nute profile of 50ish products. You just punch in numbers and check results.

 

[unregistered190]

I was get ready to make DIY Clear Res but then I read on another forum that one does want to use the HTH pool shock that’s sold in the USA. That it has ingredients one doesn’t want vs the pool shock sold in Canada that is ok to use. The % of active ingredients is different for sure.

Any experience with this from someone here on ICMag?

 

[mackdx]

Was running Megacrop. As a feet, it worked well with one exception. As Bill suggested earlier in this thread, cheap humics eventually led to clogged spray stakes and circulation pumps. I recently switched to Masterblend 3 part and have been very happy so far. Mixes easily, pH stable, clean, and cheap!

 

[ledtime]

Thanks for the replies guys.


Here's the dosages for a 5-gallon bucket of feed but dial in your own grow:


Base: (Jacks/MB)- Veg/transition/flower
3/2 ratio is 1 TBS MB/Jacks base, 1 tsp Cal Nit.

Can ramp up to 18 grams base, 12 grams cal nit if possible by week 7 of flower. /5 gallon


Transition: Flip until stretch is done
Metalosate calcium- 5 grams /5 gallon
Growmore Flowering Cal-Mag- 20 ml /5 gallon


Flowering: Week 4-6 flower
1 tsp. ~5 grams MKP /5 gallon


Biostimulant: veg, transition, flower, flush
Mr. Fulvic- 2.5-5ml/ 5 gallon

Foliar: Veg/transition (1 gallon)
15-30 ml insecticidal soap/Dr. Bronners, 0.5-1ml Mr. Fulvic

Bill, is there an alternative to Metalosate Calcium? I can only find it in a 5lb container for around $100USD. Considering I'll only need 100g per grow, It would last me 22 grows. I guess as long as it has a shelf life? Thanks sir. Your input is greatly appreciated.