changed from soil to coco, due to pandemic needed to use bricks, now need to change to rockwool

[DaEarl73]

hi folks,

due to the pandemic I was forced to change my system, because I could not get the bags of soil delivered, so I started to use coco-bricks. here i would like to write about the mistakes i made and how to avoid them. when i was searching info about how to dissolve coco-bricks, they always talked about one or two bricks, well i needed a lot maybe this thread can help somebody in a similar situation.

the first time using coco bricks, I used 10l coco bricks and thougt it would be fine to put them into 11l pots. dont do this! we had to scratch the expanded coco out of the pots to fluff them up. it was a pain in the ass.
after this we put the bricks into a big tray, put the water, turn the bricks around, that they can soak on each side and broke them into smaller pieces and let it sit over night. like this it worked pretty well, and it was much easier to break the bricks the next day and fluff them up into useable coco. i know it would be better quality with a coco bag, but i couldnt do this, because of my neighbors. when you dissolve dont use too much water, they recommend you 3l per 10lbrick, i figuered out thats way too much, with 1,5-2l its enough, otherwise your coco will be dripping wet, what you dont want for the roots of your plant. I used RO-water and mixed it to an EC of 1.2, i used canna-products, and put a lot of calmag. before i used advanced nutrients, but for me there pro line doesnt even work. i always had problems mixing the budcandy, there was always a slime build up. when i asked them why, they asked me if i use another product too, and they meant this causes the reaction. thats like a joke because the other product is in the proline, de facto there proline doesnt even work. stay away from them and save your money.

now i had to change flat and i have to grow in rockwool. my question is if I can copy my system of coco, giving them water every second day over a drip-system? i know i could water it multiple times a day for best results, but the problem is again the neighbors. i dont want to make to much noise. can you tell me which pump doesnt make too much noise? how high do you feed, which EC and PH? with what i have to be specially careful? how often i have to flush the system, or is it enough to flush before the cycle ends?

thanks a lot for every respond, i hope i can help somebody with this thread too. have a nice one

 

[Creeperpark]

Thanks for the post it's very helpful. With rockwool you just have to get started and check everything as you go and modify the EC as the plants respond to feedings. D I know you will kick ass on this one so keep us posted.

 

[DaEarl73]

thanks for the kind words. i know it will come out fine. the things i am afraid of is the salt build up, usually i flushed in the end of the cycle, now i dont know how often to do it. the important thing for me is that i get smokeable weed, you know what i mean hahaha. do i have to flush after every feeding/the last one of the day? how high can the EC be in the beginning? etc

 

[DaEarl73]

I will also use this time to search for new strains. i would be able to get my old genetics back but i feel like its time for something new. I recently poped some beans, from exotic genetix, relentless genetics, cannarado, mosca seeds, ethos, brothers Grimm and some of my own fems, wish me luck! i am already looking forward to some crazy new tastes! i will keep you updated

 

[LostTribe]

hydroton is re useable.

 

[Ca++]

hydroton is re useable.

As is coco, if the new system would work with them.

I don't know why you would want to skip a feed, and just water.

EC pumps are near silent. Perhaps actually silent, unless you let it sit on a plastic tank floor. I keep pumps away from the barrel, and use a soft silicone tube to reach the actual bottom.

300 plants would limit the choices though. Must of been a big flat.

 

[DaEarl73]

As is coco, if the new system would work with them.

I don't know why you would want to skip a feed, and just water.

EC pumps are near silent. Perhaps actually silent, unless you let it sit on a plastic tank floor. I keep pumps away from the barrel, and use a soft silicone tube to reach the actual bottom.

300 plants would limit the choices though. Must of been a big flat.

i read that a lot of people flush the last irrigation of the day. i am thinking in just irrigate them once a day or every second day. i got affraid of salt buildups, thats why i thought to maybe flush every once in a while. on coco and on soil I always just flushed the end of the cycle and it always worked fine. i just want that the weed is a nice smoke after all the work. yes the flat was quite big, half of it was for the babies hahaha. thanks for the tips with the pumps. I will get not let it touch the barrel. whats your tip on flushing though? a lot of people skip it, because they say its not ideal for the plants. thanks for your respond, have a nice one

 

[Ca++]

These are the silent pumps. Tiny things, that beat most big one's. It's like the laws of physics fall apart.

3 phase pumps, the latest thing.

The latest and greatest in pumps. The 3 phase DC pump. I'm not talking industrial here. It's the new whisper stuff that deserves the name. A few aquarium shops are getting these in as high end stuff, like $100 and it's only really one supplier on Ali that has them. Minco...

www.icmag.com

I thought EC controllers with day/night settings, were used to increase EC overnight. To compensate for the reduced transpiration. Enlarging on that, we need the feed in the plant, when our lights bang on. Our plants go 0-62mph very quickly, and many people get a bad start for various reasons. As a remedy for the symptom, some ramp the lights up slowly. Ideally, you just have the room ready. The night time temp dip corrected, feed and RH correct, for lights on.
You have likely noticed the stretch during bloom is somewhat because the lights went out. Overnight growth spurts won't be in their best state, if they are low on feed when the lights come on.

The flush idea is really for soil, or from the days of soil, where salt feeding and low waste are a concern. Rockwool doesn't really hold anything. If you have a dry out then a flush might be needed. Though it's all quite system related.

Rockwool generally sucks. Irrigation timing is almost for an individual event. Too often and it's just sodden. Too little and then salts might form. You can set and forget, but results will be poor. I think you drip. For this you need rockwool spun in layers, some vertical, some horizontal. What you will find is just vertically orientated in most stores. The drip just goes straight down. Taking the same path all the grow. This is more common that we think in many systems, but rockwool guides the water to do this. The result is a very uneven EC through the block. With areas watered only by capillary, getting quite salty, where a dripped can't flush realistically. Thus, after a dry out, jugging water over the blocks is best, if you want it right.

Rockwool is almost old fashioned now. It's still popular for cuttings, but little else.

 

[DaEarl73]

thanks a lot for the respond. it helps me a lot! i will check out the pumps. do you think if i find a good routine to feed them, it should work? i read jungle boy irrigate some plants up to 18 times a day with 100ml each time. so if i give them as much until there is a runoff and then let it dry until the next day or wait two days and do the same again and slowly increase amount of water and nutrients?

 

[Creeperpark]

thanks for the kind words. i know it will come out fine. the things i am afraid of is the salt build up, usually i flushed in the end of the cycle, now i dont know how often to do it. the important thing for me is that i get smokeable weed, you know what i mean hahaha. do i have to flush after every feeding/the last one of the day? how high can the EC be in the beginning? etc

If you top water and soak your rock wool you won't have any problems. Your plants will tell you if you need to flush, however, I have seen Rookwood go grow without a flush all the way to the end. In the last few days use Purex to flush. As far as the feeding goes you need to go by the book on the table chart from the manufacturer's recommendations exactly. Make sure you soak em well.

 

[Loc Dog]

As is coco, if the new system would work with them.

I don't know why you would want to skip a feed, and just water.

EC pumps are near silent. Perhaps actually silent, unless you let it sit on a plastic tank floor. I keep pumps away from the barrel, and use a soft silicone tube to reach the actual bottom.

300 plants would limit the choices though. Must of been a big flat.

I wanted to re-use coco, but someone said it was a pain in the ass. Something about cation exchange, which i never understood. If there is a tek, could you point me to it?

Just noticed you must be expert in cation exchange from some googling since ca++ is your name.

Is there some kind of meter that can tell CEC?

 

[DaEarl73]

If you top water and soak your rock wool you won't have any problems. Your plants will tell you if you need to flush, however, I have seen Rookwood go grow without a flush all the way to the end. In the last few days use Purex to flush. As far as the feeding goes you need to go by the book on the table chart from the manufacturer's recommendations exactly. Make sure you soak em well.

thanks for your respond, I will go with your recommendations and check the charts and read more into it. have a nice one. appreciate it

 

[Ca++]

I wanted to re-use coco, but someone said it was a pain in the ass. Something about cation exchange, which i never understood. If there is a tek, could you point me to it?

Just noticed you must be expert in cation exchange from some googling since ca++ is your name.

Is there some kind of meter that can tell CEC?

I'm no expert, but you keep climbing the peers I notice

Some make a right to-do about reuse, but my methods are as far reaching as a garden riddle. No enzyme treatments or flushing so much I need to rebalance it with calmag or such like. On a huge scale, growers will save feed costs at the end, then before reuse they will fix the coco again. Personally, I don't break it. It's perfectly fine at the end of flower, so it's perfectly fine riddled and put back to use. Coco is really best purchased as a ready to use item, and never flushed. Flushing just releases K and Na ions from the coco itself. If you flush it, you really need calmag to flush with. Keeping these ions in place.

CEC of coco is widely reported, but it's not of any real importance as an end user, using coco feeds at the right intervals. The water once a day thing will bugger it right up. The plants won't stop taking feed such as Ca, and without free Ca in solution, the Ca will leave the sites and K and Na leaching from the decomposing coco will take the sites. Them we have a poor substrate. Next feed, the Ca++ being stronger that a + will displace these K and Na ions into the solution where they are freely available. The effect is your feeds Ca lost to the coco, and switched out for the other two. The plants is not very selective between K and Na, so it's being taken, and it's not good for them to eat Na. Softer tissue is formed, that is more susceptible.

Coco is best left alone, and the bottles followed. With any flush between uses, done with calmag. Or just with feed. So riddle it, and run some grow through until the runoff looks right for growing in again. Which should be right away. Any traces of bloom feed, usually mean K, which young plants like for rooting.

The real take-home from this, is keeping the coco in good condition, at all times. No flushing without the needed ions, or adding bloom boosters with npk numbers that reach lower orbit.


Riddle for consistancy. Don't stress about bits of root. Coco has a big microherd like compost. Compost/soil is little different to them bits of root. After a few years, your coco will handle like a soil. It evolves, but not in the negative way the sellers have you believe. I have had lab sampling done, and this speeding up of K and Na release, didn't show up.

I hope that wasn't too chewy for you.

 

[Loc Dog]

I'm no expert, but you keep climbing the peers I notice

Some make a right to-do about reuse, but my methods are as far reaching as a garden riddle. No enzyme treatments or flushing so much I need to rebalance it with calmag or such like. On a huge scale, growers will save feed costs at the end, then before reuse they will fix the coco again. Personally, I don't break it. It's perfectly fine at the end of flower, so it's perfectly fine riddled and put back to use. Coco is really best purchased as a ready to use item, and never flushed. Flushing just releases K and Na ions from the coco itself. If you flush it, you really need calmag to flush with. Keeping these ions in place.

CEC of coco is widely reported, but it's not of any real importance as an end user, using coco feeds at the right intervals. The water once a day thing will bugger it right up. The plants won't stop taking feed such as Ca, and without free Ca in solution, the Ca will leave the sites and K and Na leaching from the decomposing coco will take the sites. Them we have a poor substrate. Next feed, the Ca++ being stronger that a + will displace these K and Na ions into the solution where they are freely available. The effect is your feeds Ca lost to the coco, and switched out for the other two. The plants is not very selective between K and Na, so it's being taken, and it's not good for them to eat Na. Softer tissue is formed, that is more susceptible.

Coco is best left alone, and the bottles followed. With any flush between uses, done with calmag. Or just with feed. So riddle it, and run some grow through until the runoff looks right for growing in again. Which should be right away. Any traces of bloom feed, usually mean K, which young plants like for rooting.

The real take-home from this, is keeping the coco in good condition, at all times. No flushing without the needed ions, or adding bloom boosters with npk numbers that reach lower orbit.


Riddle for consistancy. Don't stress about bits of root. Coco has a big microherd like compost. Compost/soil is little different to them bits of root. After a few years, your coco will handle like a soil. It evolves, but not in the negative way the sellers have you believe. I have had lab sampling done, and this speeding up of K and Na release, didn't show up.

I hope that wasn't too chewy for you.

I only water once a day. Is there a tray system available for automated watering? I have found watering systems but more concerned with collecting the runoff without ruining floors. How many times a day to feed? I have automatic recycling timer somewhere from hydro days. To automate will lose height in 7 foot tent. I was originally told to let it dry out a little or roots would not grow. How any ml of cal/mag a gallon?? TIA.

 

[DaEarl73]

I only water once a day. Is there a tray system available for automated watering? I have found watering systems but more concerned with collecting the runoff without ruining floors. How many times a day to feed? I have automatic recycling timer somewhere from hydro days. To automate will lose height in 7 foot tent. I was originally told to let it dry out a little or roots would not grow. How any ml of cal/mag a gallon?? TIA.

yes, good question, how much calmag do you give? how many ppm/ how high is your ec?

 

[Ca++]

Just to be sure we are on the same page, when I say watering, I mean with water, like it was soil. When I say feeding, I mean fertigating. A term for water with feed in it, that few people say. The OP was talking about watering before sleep. Something that will limit the crop in many ways.

There are a number of ways to gather run-off that need only take 100mm of height away. 40mm if you raise the tent on pallets, and route the waste out to a collection tank. Perhaps look at bilge pumps. A few dollars gets a 12v pump with it's own float. An old internet router psu will run a small one. One alternative is the multiflow system as a source of parts. It's a flood/drain system, that can be left on drain. Allowing a drip system to be used. This looses just a couple of inch of ceiling, while providing 3G tubs. With that idea in mind, you should be able to plumb any old bucket bottoms together, and route them to a container with a bilge pump in it. If a bilge pump isn't man enough, then a condense pump could be looked at. It's small res, with a float and pump in. Exactly what you need. Quite powerful though. They will send water 10 meters up usually.

$50 one there. The black bit is the sump. Nothing in there, cept the float switch and pump impeller. You can see the pumps arse end sticking out the top. It's impeller so low, you can actually see the recess it sits in. Typically the waste goes in through the green deck, and out through the hose spigot. You can drill the black bit though. On many, the green bit lifts out, and actually has ~60mm legs. So it can be sat in anything. Not just the black sump provided. This is industry standard stuff. The hose spigot contains a one-way valve, so you can run a couple of these on one hose system. Thus, when one fails, you should get to finish your crop without noticing. Obviously between crops you check all your kit over, and find you need to replace one. They actually have two float switches. One set a bit higher can be used to stop the drip system if the water gets too high. I prefer a second pump, than switching off the drip system. However, it's an option to keep the carpet dry.



If you flush using just calmag (for some reason) then the levels should reflect your feed. Something like 150ppm of calmag. With most brands, that's about 3ml per l. You could use as little as half of that, but no lower. Presuming RO water is being used. With tap, your starting water hardness comes into play.

 

[G.O. Joe]

Rockwool generally sucks.

IME, other than cost, any real or nonexistent problems with it are better to deal with than the problems of other substrates. Even by amateurs who give maybe a quarter of a shit and don't have large scale hassles

HPS rockwool heresy and a tent of freebies

contains no: popular clones or seeds, led, cmh, dwc, lst, scrog, sog, lucas, hempy, or anyone else, topping, defoliation, temperature or humidity measurement, added co2, o2, o3, calmag, tea, booster, silica, vitamin, neem, bacteria, fungus, fungicide, pesticide, bug eating bugs. necessities...

www.icmag.com

Rockwool is almost old fashioned now.

So is sensibility, practicality, wisdom, and good taste.

 

[Dime]

i read that a lot of people flush the last irrigation of the day. i am thinking in just irrigate them once a day or every second day. i got affraid of salt buildups, thats why i thought to maybe flush every once in a while. on coco and on soil I always just flushed the end of the cycle and it always worked fine. i just want that the weed is a nice smoke after all the work. yes the flat was quite big, half of it was for the babies hahaha. thanks for the tips with the pumps. I will get not let it touch the barrel. whats your tip on flushing though? a lot of people skip it, because they say its not ideal for the plants. thanks for your respond, have a nice one

For best results in rockwool,keep it warm because the spun rock stays cold,especially cloning,always use nutrients because the new solution will flush the old spent nutrients that were not used away and correct ph at the same time,you only need to worry about solution ph and ppm,don't worry about nutrient lockout because you are putting new nutrients in it every time,presoak to ph balance before use,use enzymes to avoid root rot,keep rockwool suspended if possible on a rock layer,for air space to avoiding root rot from suffocation and give better support and bigger root mass.leave wrap on,its there to avoid algae and keep plants separated and will hold water longer. If you are growing active then change solution often. Collect the solution if passive, I just dumped my solution on my garden plants .If you are only doing a few plants you can add an air stone under the slab if needed then throw it away after harvest or if you are using rockwool for mother plants,don't water too much or you will get algae nor underwater or the plant can tip over depending on size,never squeeze rockwool or it's benefits are removed.As the plant uses nutrients the ph will change so pay no mind to the cube or slab or runoff,the new solution will correct it.if you are using drip on rockwool you can scrape salts away for easier penetration or move emitter,put it under plastic or drip beside it,algae is a bigger problem for nutrient penetration than salts as they just stay there. Remember the only purpose rockwool has is plant support like any medium in hydroponics but offers better holding and air exchange . You can reuse rockwool if needed depending on the amount of root mass or chop it up and put it in your soil outdoors . Sometimes flushing will cause shock so it isn't necessary until very close to harvest when you should stress anyway to make the plant give it all to make every bit of resin it can.. When flooding, time it so the water doesn't come to the top of the cube and you won't get much algae,you can cut a slit in opaque plastic and slide it over the stem on top of the cube to keep the light away and avoid algae as well,I just used constant drip on my mothers.I did production rockwool indoor runs in my garage using SOG on ebb and flow tables, this is some of what I learned. Best of luck.

 

[Ca++]

IME, other than cost, any real or nonexistent problems with it are better to deal with than the problems of other substrates. Even by amateurs who give maybe a quarter of a shit and don't have large scale hassles

HPS rockwool heresy and a tent of freebies

contains no: popular clones or seeds, led, cmh, dwc, lst, scrog, sog, lucas, hempy, or anyone else, topping, defoliation, temperature or humidity measurement, added co2, o2, o3, calmag, tea, booster, silica, vitamin, neem, bacteria, fungus, fungicide, pesticide, bug eating bugs. necessities...

www.icmag.com

So is sensibility, practicality, wisdom, and good taste.

For me, you are one of the most respected posters here. I'm quite shocked to hear you think it's problems are lesser than any other medium. You are obviously mistaken. It's a disposal problem, too wet and generally wrongly specified. Nobody knows how to handle the stuff properly, and as such it's going to be causing lung problems. Other substrates are just not killing us. Which I don't think falls on the side of rockwool.

I'm extremely satisfied that I don't have to use the stuff anymore. It was cuttings where it took some replacing. Which is the only place I know anyone that uses it now. Commercially, 20% of pot growers use it in some form. I suggest, that like those around me, it's generally for cuttings.

When 'hydro' was big, some 30 years ago, almost everyone used rockwool. Putting blocks and slabs in gutters and on nft coffins. The shop was selling it to everyone. Now they don't stock slabs and the shelf of blocks gathers dust.

Look around. If you are still raving about rockwool, you are missing out

 

[G.O. Joe]

Such is the unfounded prejudice which caused me to start that thread, and obtain 1 GPW with freebie genetics and very little care and nutes.

If you're worried about the dust, wear a dust mask. What about vermiculite with asbestos in it?

I didn't mention RW being the most environmentally unfriendly because really quite a lot of things going in the landfill are bad.

Maybe I have given tips on watering rockwool in relevant threads? Yes there are a couple tricks - draining cubes by setting them with a corner down and giving the small ones a shake, but once a cube is colonized it can be watered to runoff every hour. With a cube covering most of another cube, every watering (I like 15% min vol runoff) the air flows like a reverse chimney by capillary suction, and for sure the crown is not in any way drowning. It takes like a minute for the top cube to be sucked almost too dry by the bottom cube, which is dry for another 2" down if it's a Hugo. So IDK about moisture problems that no one needs to have. Watering frequency is governed by maintenance of pH and ppm in the root zone, easily automated, in addition to moisture, so I always make sure the most water hungry plant never gets anywhere near dry. Plants using way less water but getting the same amount and frequency aren't affected at all.

So a lot of RW needs conditioning. Coco needs more. Everything else is messy to varying degrees. RW is so clean. And light. I'd way rather set out 300 cubes than fill 300 pots with the finest soil. And get the bugs that soil/peat tends to invite.

I don't need to look to anyone for jack, my indoor experience goes back to 86, and if I was in a legal state and someone wanted to pay me I wouldn't hesitate to seriously build out an "obsolete" grow using RW in DWC with biofiltration, which is how I roll now, without the slightest shame.