Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[simba]

the only ones that specificly state 24/7 use are the
retro whites (Bulb size ED-18, Also standard HPS size) cdm250s50/-cdm4s51/
and the Pulse start (Bulb size ed28,ed37) cdm250/-cdm400/
(notice the part number difference the retro whites have the HPS ansi code listed before any /'s )
I really dont like to deviate from MFR's recommendation
with that said..
yes you can.. (the affects can vary from no effect to early failure -(not that often @ short hours)
its the Seals at the ends on the inside of the arc tube that dont like it and can fail.. (the mix is corrosive)
ya like 24/0 over 20/4 or 18/6 im at 23/1 for non grow related reasons and the 1 hour down they get i have noticed they go Nuts they seem to know thats the only dark they get and shoot up..(not grow with any harvest concerns) IE i go in there at initial drk and sometimes there till re-ignite i can see the difference in size. (im a believer they need dark at least some
what ballast code do you have.. ?

Side note ive been running a 150 24/7 for about 3 months for another purpose and heres a Chity but great reflector.we just added a few times but. it got super hot so i added fins and going to add a good fan...ill let ya know if that takes.. (it will give a fast idea of the heat issue)
(great output, High Heat with alum tape reflector at bulb jacket before fins)

 

[greenisgold]

Found this site, check it out and let me know what you think about their outlook of what bulbs to use and when. Like switching to a 10 k bulb during the last week and increasing light on hours. Very interesting.
http://www.hydro-techn.com/

 

[00420]

my ballast is
175 m59 (mh)
175 h29 (mv)
150 m107 (mh)

i have ran the ushio 175mh pulse start (m102) on it for about 6 months it has a tuff time starting about 2/3's of the time i have also ran a 150hps (not a converstion bulb) and it has never had trouble staring the tech at venture said being that it will be fine it wont hurt the ballast in anyway the only prob it will have is starting from time to time like my ushio bulb but that could not be a prob like the hps becuz it is a 150w but he said that he cant say for 100%

 

[simba]

you mean m57 ?

ya in honesty you can mix and match some ballasts with other bulbs.. (CMH's are gonna be even fewer choices)
but in all of our circumstances any extra risk is not worth it..
on top of the GREEN risk.
i say try it if it don't fire get a PS-MH core kit..

if u go 10k buy from aqua shop not them.. and buy a good one.. dont chince out..

no offense to them but there out for mad profit..and that scares me a bit..with the product recommendation and pricing.

they started off selling re branded and copied philips Retro whites at $109 then 90 now 70 WTF>..and for a while they infact hide that they where philips bulbs..
and there ballast is a ge ultra max but no reference to that..
they overcharged Stores.

in short they have good info but watch who makes the product.they recomending. (to many copies out there. even in the 10K bulbs) I wont use any Chinese made HID bulbs.. Sorry..
all Philips CMH are MADE IN USA>> there cmhs now are philips (unless its a new one they have)

when you start having multi spd's you also should make sure your Enviro is maxed out first.. IE adding Co2 etc.. before adding anything to CMH.. (for optimal results) without maxing out enviro u will still get some differences.. when adding a 10k lets say.
with cmh your already giving your plant all it needs.. IE full sun.. allot more than it had even if u had MH and hps at same time.. (they only spike in short ranges)

also there THermal is only good because its CMH not the design.. but they contribute it to the reflectors thats not right.

 

[Guest]

Simba, you have done the ICMag community much good. Thank you for your time, patience, and wisdom.

Word. I am glad I saw your thread when it was only 20 pages! I have learned a lot and have my 400W CMH growing some nice salad. ALL green. No yellowing. I have been following my feeding chart closely as well, I must add.

Thanks Simba.

 

[PurplePotion]

Dang, also found 250W HPS fixtures for $20/ea. So here's the dilemma: Do I buy 2x 250W HPS for $40 to accompany my 400W CMH, or do I buy 1x 400W MH for $30? Decisions.. decisions..

 

[simba]

2 cmhs.. or even one.. impo never go back to mh.. (even a 10k costs to much for what the end result is vs adding another cmh)

 

[PurplePotion]

I'm just looking at the cost aspect right now. Eventually I want 2 or 3 400W CMH's, but don't have the extra loot for 'em. $120-130 for me to build a 400W CMH system vs. $20 for a 250W HPS or $30 for a 400W MH. Maybe I'll find some room on the cc to just get another 400W CMH rahh.

 

[iLLperception]

Go with the 250W HPS ballasts, at least u can use them for flower and veg supplement and then swap in CMH bulbs when you have the $. I agree with simba, I will probably NEVER use the several MH bulbs and ballasts I have ever again.

 

[Deft]

250Whps vs 250Wcmh

Is there a difference in the overall heat input into a sealed enclosure?

 

[PurplePotion]

Go with the 250W HPS ballasts, at least u can use them for flower and veg supplement and then swap in CMH bulbs when you have the $. I agree with simba, I will probably NEVER use the several MH bulbs and ballasts I have ever again.

Sounds like the best choice for now.

I did a google search on places carrying the MasterColor bulbs, and surprisingly 1000bulbs.com has the tech sheet hosted on their server.. but, it's not listed anywhere on their website. I sent a product inquiry and hope to hear back soon. The reason this interests me is due to the ability of ordering the ballast and bulb all in one spot. I also sent an inquiry to advancetech asking if they will be carrying the ballasts any time soon, as I'd much rather do business with them. Who know.. hopefully I'll hear something soon .

If I could get away ordering everything from one site and avoiding multiple shipping costs, I think I might be able to squeeze enough out of the wallet

 

[iLLperception]

Well I squeezed my wallet earlier today, and came home with 2 new SunSytem 2 hoods, and a new SuperSun 10 ballast. So my girls are now under 800W of CMH.

Here's a pic from 3/15


And here's a pic today 3/22 right after setting up the new gear.




A couple more shots:




It is absolutely blinding in my room now, I HAVE to wear sunglasses or my eyes start to burn lol...

 

[PurplePotion]

iLL. What cfm fan does it take to keep the 800W cool?

 

[iLLperception]

I'm using one of the 450cfm vortex fans throttled down to half speed, and I can touch the glass no prob. i do have a window unit a/c that is blowing into the room every 30 mins or so to keep it around 75-80. My ambient temps outside the grow room are between 65-85 right now.

 

[PurplePotion]

Very nice. I just ordered a second 275cfm Dayton just to play it safe haha .. Sounds like I might be able to get away with just one during the colder months :smile:.

 

[Hazelnuts]

Do Advanced Tech Lighting ship to europe? Because if they do, I'm definitely in for 2 400w's after this grow. The ones for the HPS ballasts work for horti use right?

 

[simba]

Hazel, Yes they do, online checkout. and yes works on standard 400 watt HPS ballasts world wide..
euro doesn't have ansi codes like us nor does the ballasts look the same.. (more compact over there.) but as long its not a Digital like lumetek

some one asked earlier for the tech sheets
heres the sales and Tech sheets

Sales Sheet on 250, 400 watt CMH retro white
http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/p-5497.pdf

Tech sheets on CMH retro whites
250 hor http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/146498.pdf
250 ver http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/rw001-a.pdf
400 hor http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/146506.pdf
400 ver http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/rw002-a.pdf

 

[Hazelnuts]

Hazel, Yes they do, online checkout. and yes works on standard 400 watt HPS ballasts world wide..
euro doesn't have ansi codes like us nor does the ballasts look the same.. (more compact over there.) but as long its not a Digital like lumetek

some one asked earlier for the tech sheets
heres the sales and Tech sheets

Sales Sheet on 250, 400 watt CMH retro white
http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/p-5497.pdf

Tech sheets on CMH retro whites
250 hor http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/146498.pdf
250 ver http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/rw001-a.pdf
400 hor http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/146506.pdf
400 ver http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/rw002-a.pdf

You rock, thank you. I think the bulbs are the same in europe and america, just the ballasts are diff, is that correct? From what I've heard about these lamps, they rock, really looking forward to having 2 of em.

 

[simba]

yups.. basicly..

 

[MPL]

The growth on my two Super Skunk girls is super dense despite some troubles I have had with them (this is my first grow). I've got a lot of trimming to do in the next week to get ready for flowering next Monday.

Oh, as an update, my HTG 400w HPS ballast has been firing my 400w CMH on a 4' lead fine for two months now. No failed starts, never takes more than 5 seconds to fire after the ballast switches on. This is on a 20/4 schedule. I don't expect any difference on 12/12.