Again, can't help. What I was referring to was the Hybrid fixture that I built (link in my sig), which uses a combination of the PL-L lamps and Osram 660nm leds.
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Again, can't help. What I was referring to was the Hybrid fixture that I built (link in my sig), which uses a combination of the PL-L lamps and Osram 660nm leds.
Firebrand
Active member
How is the effect (taste, high) of the buds grown under a 315w Agro in comparison with a HPS??
Keep on growing
Keep on growing
Illumination
Member
Thank you. So you arecsayingthere are no adequate t 5 sources for 660? None that you recommend? I have read of these uvl 660 but can't find them the given the runaround on the zoo meds floras for the 660. I already have lotsa t5 ho extra ballasted fixtures istalled already and did real well with some aqua medics.
You might get better responses asking this question in one of the T5 threads...
I don't really have any idea what is available for T5 - I don't use them. The only fluorescent fixtures that I use are PL-L, which are basically a T5 folded into a U-shape. My only thought would be that any fluorescent, while it might have a strong component of a given bandwidth, is going to unavoidably have a broader spectrum than a single-bandwidth source like LEDs.
To:
Rives and others with 315 exp,
I am looking at filling a 20 x 20 room with 30 315's for flowering trees. double stacked verts and overhead combo.
Do you think this would be comparable to running 9 1ks over head and hanging 600's in between (not double satcked), or woudl I be wasting a lot of $$$.
Benefits to running 315's:
better light distribution and less power consumption/less amps used on my limited service of 200 ams/less AC required?supposed excellent PAR value.
Cons:
intensity, which may not be an important factor when growing vert due to penetration of side canopy with vert bulbs.
thanks,
cap.
Hey bro see my above post. thought if I quoted you you woudl see it faster, and saw that you changed out a 1k HPS for 2 cycloptics units.
thanks for any info,
CAp
I think that, depending on the number of 600's you are talking about, you might have roughly equivalent performance. However, I think that your light levels are waaay too low. With this run, I was using roughly 45 watts per square foot. My new area will be around 75w/sq.ft., and what you are talking about is around 23.5w/sq.ft. Rule of thumb for HID installations is around 50w/sq.ft..
tenthirty
Member
IMHO,
35w sq ft 315 cmh = 50w sq ft hps
45w sq ft = way better
I have a direct comparison of pre 98 bubba, cmh vs hps,
the cmh quality and yield per lighting watt is far superior.
20% improvement in yield.
I think that I'm on run 8 or 9 now with the agro bulbs.
Rives, the sweet tooth #4 looks "sweet". Is that the sativa leaning pheno?
35w sq ft 315 cmh = 50w sq ft hps
45w sq ft = way better
I have a direct comparison of pre 98 bubba, cmh vs hps,
the cmh quality and yield per lighting watt is far superior.
20% improvement in yield.
I think that I'm on run 8 or 9 now with the agro bulbs.
Rives, the sweet tooth #4 looks "sweet". Is that the sativa leaning pheno?
Right but because I am only growing 12 plants, each plant in the center of my configuration will be surrounded by 2,835w. Those plants will take up 36 sq. ft. each. The plants against the wall will be taking up 18 sq. ft. and will be getting 1575 w each. If you look at it that way then they will be getting 78w/sq ft. and 87 w/sq. ft. respectively... If you look at it as the square footage of the whole room then yes just 23.5 w/sq. ft.
My current vert room is a 16' x 16' and with 9 lights I am hitting close to 18 units with lots of room for improvement. That's 35w/sq ft. and the plants are surrounded by 1k on 4 sides (4k total), with no overhead lighting.
Thank you so much for all of your input on this. I'm just trying to do my homework before I bite the bullet. I am limited on amps in my new place, and this seems like a great solution. Otherwise I would run overhead 1ks and vert 600's and be at around 14k. This way I'm at 10k... meaning less amps and less AC.. If I can get similar results the lights will pay for themselves in a year or two just in energy savings.
See above. Your ratio is 70% (35/50), and 25w per square foot compared to my existing 35 w/sq. ft. is 71% (25/50), so I am assuming I should expect similar results?
Can you point me in the direction of your comparison? I have read through this thread (not all of it) and I see some people complaining about less trichs.
I ain't no spring chicken by the way, see attached pics of my current set up:
Attachments
How is the effect (taste, high) of the buds grown under a 315w Agro in comparison with a HPS??
Keep on growing
Anyone an answer??
Keep on growing
watt per square feet in interesting, but it totally depends on the type of lamp you use and the type of reflector. Other than that you need to consider re-lamp costs and investment, as well as reflector changes.
Let me give you an example:
To reach the optimal ppfd of 1000 umol m-2 s-1 you need about 1 Pro 600 per 12 square feet or 1 Pro 1000 DE per 22 square feet. However, if you use a lamp with less output, a MH lamp or an air cooled reflector you need up to 40% more power to get the same light intensities. I am not not even calculating with wall losses, which can be easily as high as 20% in small rooms. Yet another factor is the ballast: how well are the lamp and ballast tuned to each other. That can make a 5-10% difference easily. Other HPS lamps have a considerable less output, even up to 40% less! So it is really difficult to talk about watts per surface.
Using the same power CDM in general will get you better results with a more efficient lamp and/or a better reflector. These CDM lamps are already 5-30% better that the generic available HPS lamps so you should see an increase in yield using the same power. Still they are less efficient than the (high power) horticultural HPS lamps.
For a large room though I would consider the investment and relamp costs as well, as the CDMs are only available in medium wattage. You need more than 3 CDM 315 fixtures to replace one 1000W Pro-line fixture, 4 fixtures to replace a combo of a 1000W pro-line and a plasma light (which also includes UVA and UVB).
The Agro did well in a test crop here, though we still needed to deal with the heat, it is not a cooler lamp compared to the high-end HPS we use as in total radiant heat to the crop. It is actually warmer per watt than the 1000W HPS double ended lamp, but considerably cooler than any MH lamp.
So in general:
- a 20% increase in yield using the same wattage can be expected if you compare to average HPS systems
- Using an open reflector can even boost this up to another 10%
- To reach about 1000 umol s-1 m-2 you need 2x CDM 315 per square meter (12 sq ft) using a good open reflector (calculating with good reflective walls!)
- The better spectrum can result in a healthier crop and a better quality
- As it is only available in medium wattage it is ideal for small rooms, not so much for large rooms
Let me give you an example:
To reach the optimal ppfd of 1000 umol m-2 s-1 you need about 1 Pro 600 per 12 square feet or 1 Pro 1000 DE per 22 square feet. However, if you use a lamp with less output, a MH lamp or an air cooled reflector you need up to 40% more power to get the same light intensities. I am not not even calculating with wall losses, which can be easily as high as 20% in small rooms. Yet another factor is the ballast: how well are the lamp and ballast tuned to each other. That can make a 5-10% difference easily. Other HPS lamps have a considerable less output, even up to 40% less! So it is really difficult to talk about watts per surface.
Using the same power CDM in general will get you better results with a more efficient lamp and/or a better reflector. These CDM lamps are already 5-30% better that the generic available HPS lamps so you should see an increase in yield using the same power. Still they are less efficient than the (high power) horticultural HPS lamps.
For a large room though I would consider the investment and relamp costs as well, as the CDMs are only available in medium wattage. You need more than 3 CDM 315 fixtures to replace one 1000W Pro-line fixture, 4 fixtures to replace a combo of a 1000W pro-line and a plasma light (which also includes UVA and UVB).
The Agro did well in a test crop here, though we still needed to deal with the heat, it is not a cooler lamp compared to the high-end HPS we use as in total radiant heat to the crop. It is actually warmer per watt than the 1000W HPS double ended lamp, but considerably cooler than any MH lamp.
So in general:
- a 20% increase in yield using the same wattage can be expected if you compare to average HPS systems
- Using an open reflector can even boost this up to another 10%
- To reach about 1000 umol s-1 m-2 you need 2x CDM 315 per square meter (12 sq ft) using a good open reflector (calculating with good reflective walls!)
- The better spectrum can result in a healthier crop and a better quality
- As it is only available in medium wattage it is ideal for small rooms, not so much for large rooms
C
Carlos Danger
Whazzup, do you have any suggested readings for light concepts like umols, etc. Other than wikipedia. I feel like I'm unable to make an informed decision without understanding the spectrum more.
And if I am hanging these double stacked, 5' apart in between the plants?
This gives me an extra 20 amps to play with, and I could potentially add 4 gavita DE to the mix over the 4 plants in the middle to really crank it up a notch, although at that point there may be too much light...
Basically what you are saying is that I can boost yield by 30% over conventional HPS as long as I have enough CDM bulbs?
That sounds good. Perhaps I will be the guinea pig for the first big CDM vert room, and build out another 20 x 20 on a flip with all Phillips DE bulbs for a side by side comparison.
lumens are for humans, there is an article about micromoles on our website. There are numerous documents in various threads explaining about spectrum and scientists are still bickering about it, so there is not a single truth about spectrum. Cannabis is a red lover, that's why we got away using just HPS. For other crops that would not have worked as well.
One thing is for sure: plants do great under sunlight!
I would not be able to tell you what happens vertical without reflector, other than you would have a lot of very hot lamps hanging in your way
Look at it this way: in a 10x20 mammoth tent I would need about 38 - 40 CDM 315 fixtures, or 10 Pro 1000 fixtures. The pro 1000 is still more efficient than the CDM (about 10% if you would use the same efficiency reflector). But also think about relamping costs.
While I would love to see a large installation of the 315s, relamping costs for a room like that would be ugly! It would be very interesting to dollar out the ROI with potentially enhanced production and the energy savings from these lamps.
