Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[City Twin]

Phillips Discontinues Retro White

FYI from Advanceed Tech -

Important NOTE It is with a heavy Heart that I pass this information on to you.
The CDM400S51/HOR/4K/ALTO, CDM400S51/v/4K/ALTO, CDM250S50/HOR/4K/ALTO AND CDM250S50/V/4K/ALTO
Have been Delisted By Philips, AKA Discontinued.

http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm

 

[Pinball Wizard]

oh, shit!

 

[GreenThumb14]

I think that is because they are being replaced by the 205w and 330w Allstart Energy Advantage CDMs.... Seems logical. Good news about them is they are supposedly just as good if not better at growing. From what I read they have slightly more red spectrum and more UV output. The UV specs are on the Philips page. Good amount of UVA, 10 mW/cm2 I think. UVB was like .04 mW/cm2 IIRC.

** I ordered a 330W Allstart CDM today and picked up a 400w MH mag ballast. 100lm/w, 80% luminous maint. @ 40% life, 24,000hr life and open rated of course.

 

[rives]

315w CDM's, Veg+Bloom @ 55 days.

 

[Azeotrope]

City Twin - Thanks for that info. Bummer for those on HPS mag ballasts, but as pointed out, not all is lost! The all-starts look like a very good alternative and the CDMs in 315w are really making me a happy hobbiest right now. Just really smart design.

A little better market demand and saturation would make me happy as it would make components more available and it would probably bring down the prices a bit.

Rives- Nice! Very Nice!

 

[GreenThumb14]

A little better market demand and saturation would make me happy as it would make components more available and it would probably bring down the prices a bit.

Had a nice talk with local hydro store owner today and was telling him about CDMs and he was very surprised by the spectrum. Going to take my 330w allstart bulb to demonstrate for him when it arrives this week.

 

[unthing]

so you need mh mag ballast for allstarts and that's all?

edit: seems that the answer is yes

 

[GreenThumb14]

Yup, they work on both pulse start and probe start MH ballasts, use 330w and give an output just a hair under the 400w hps retro white.

 

[unthing]

have you spotted any nice spectrum chart for them yet? not that it could actually tell me much if anything

 

[messn'n'gommin']

oh, shit!

And then some!

 

[Pinball Wizard]

And then some!

I ordered two more. Should be here Wednesday.

Also I got two Ushio MH at Christmas (HPS ballast to MH conversion bulbs) in 5200k and 7000k.
(it's too early to see their affect)

 

[DrFever]

Whats the cost difference between these 315 w CMH compared to 400 watts HPS ??? i guess your all comparing them pretty much even i mean complete costs ???? i can get brand new 1000 watt reflector, bulb, ballest 3 year warranty for under 200 bucks tax in....so now comes the next question returns what are expected yields per cost of total unit of a CMH are you going to make 315 dry grams or double that ???? is a CMH going to compare to 200 dollar investment 1000 watt as for yield ????
Is there a huge difference in growth rates in veg
If you were to do a side by side which plant would be bigger with 3 weeks veg HPS or CMH
I was given a few 400's and to be honest it was like watching paint dry thats how slow growth was i can't even give these 400's away and would advise anyone to stay clear away from them as there garbage.... As for CMH never tried one but comparing 400 hps
I found faster better growth under sunblaster T5 Ho's in veg, then a 400
but to each there own Maybe i am spoiled as i veg with min 1 - 3000 watts and that growth is in fckingcredible
rives plants looking real happy looks like your going to have some decent smoke

but I wanna know ..... what really are we seeing here a huge leap in difference in overall bud development ...???
Cause i am not seeing any huge significant differences making me wanting to change anytime soon from HPS
Here 400 watt pretty much same time frame they look the same i would give the 400 hps the advantage in bud size by a little not much tho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovVifpkNjfs

 

[Pinball Wizard]

"turn out the lights, the retro-CMH party is over"

 

[silverhazefiend]

There no pleasing some people

There no pleasing some people

Whats the cost difference between these 315 w CMH compared to 400 watts HPS ??? i guess your all comparing them pretty much even i mean complete costs ???? i can get brand new 1000 watt reflector, bulb, ballest 3 year warranty for under 200 bucks tax in....so now comes the next question returns what are expected yields per cost of total unit of a CMH are you going to make 315 dry grams or double that ???? is a CMH going to compare to 200 dollar investment 1000 watt as for yield ????
Is there a huge difference in growth rates in veg
If you were to do a side by side which plant would be bigger with 3 weeks veg HPS or CMH
I was given a few 400's and to be honest it was like watching paint dry thats how slow growth was i can't even give these 400's away and would advise anyone to stay clear away from them as there garbage.... As for CMH never tried one but comparing 400 hps
I found faster better growth under sunblaster T5 Ho's in veg, then a 400
but to each there own Maybe i am spoiled as i veg with min 1 - 3000 watts and that growth is in fckingcredible
rives plants looking real happy looks like your going to have some decent smoke

but I wanna know ..... what really are we seeing here a huge leap in difference in overall bud development ...???
Cause i am not seeing any huge significant differences making me wanting to change anytime soon from HPS
Here 400 watt pretty much same time frame they look the same i would give the 400 hps the advantage in bud size by a little not much tho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovVifpkNjfs

How can u compare a 1000 watt to a 315 ??? Bc of the price ? Please don't tell me ur really not saying that ...
First off POWER consumption is KEy of course ..a 1k is gonna draw way more power and put off WAY more heat ..how can u even compare them ?

A reasonable comparison would be to a 400 hps ..and as far as production goes see @ RIVES PIC ..that is challenging a 600 watt hps easily ! For half the power and heat ..I'm sold

Also I don't mean to sound too prickish but all your comments have been negative in here ..he'll there negative in 95% of your post in most threads ..you my friend are a hater in every sense of the word ..it's like if everybody agrees the sky is blue u say its red ..and challenge all to disprove that ..u prolly grow some nice plants but ur attitude sucks

 

[rives]

Whats the cost difference between these 315 w CMH compared to 400 watts HPS ??? i guess your all comparing them pretty much even i mean complete costs ???? i can get brand new 1000 watt reflector, bulb, ballest 3 year warranty for under 200 bucks tax in....so now comes the next question returns what are expected yields per cost of total unit of a CMH are you going to make 315 dry grams or double that ???? is a CMH going to compare to 200 dollar investment 1000 watt as for yield ????
Is there a huge difference in growth rates in veg
If you were to do a side by side which plant would be bigger with 3 weeks veg HPS or CMH
I was given a few 400's and to be honest it was like watching paint dry thats how slow growth was i can't even give these 400's away and would advise anyone to stay clear away from them as there garbage.... As for CMH never tried one but comparing 400 hps
I found faster better growth under sunblaster T5 Ho's in veg, then a 400
but to each there own Maybe i am spoiled as i veg with min 1 - 3000 watts and that growth is in fckingcredible
rives plants looking real happy looks like your going to have some decent smoke

but I wanna know ..... what really are we seeing here a huge leap in difference in overall bud development ...???
Cause i am not seeing any huge significant differences making me wanting to change anytime soon from HPS
Here 400 watt pretty much same time frame they look the same i would give the 400 hps the advantage in bud size by a little not much tho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovVifpkNjfs

The 315w equipment is higher than hell if you pay retail. I took my time and found the gear on eBay, and got some smoking deals. If I was going to grow commercially, the odds are that I would be using either Gavita 600w or 1000w HPS. I grow for myself, and my needs are amply met with far less wattage. I also like to spend time just admiring my plants, which is completely impossible under HPS. I worked under that shit for several decades in factories, and it has no place in my garden!

As far as bud development, this is my first run with the 315 and the growing dynamics are substantially different than with the LEDs that I've been using for the last several years. Because of this, I'm sure that there was quite a bit left on the table. This grow was done with 930 lamps, not the Agro, and it looks like there is a good bit of potential improvement with the lamp that is actually designed for the purpose. There were far too many changes this time to make any valid comparisons, but the next run will be far more comparable to what I've done in the past.

From an energy and efficiency standpoint, the 315 is the next generation of HID development. Their light output/watt is right up there with the best of current LEDs, there is one ballast manufacturer that is claiming a lamp life comparable to LEDs, the falloff in light output over time is a tiny fraction of what HPS loses, they can be dimmed to 50% with no loss of lamp life or color rendering, etc, etc. So far, I'm impressed.

 

[GreenThumb14]

have you spotted any nice spectrum chart for them yet? not that it could actually tell me much if anything

I tried looking, couldn't find anything... From what I read at AdvancedTech lighting (don't quote me on credibility of that source) they (330w Allstart) has a very similar spectrum to the retro white but with more red.

I stumbled across another thread on an MJ forum where a guy tested his bulbs, 2x 400w retro whites and 24" under hood with 2x 400w retros he measured 1600+ umols. Outside on summer day he got 1900 umols.

I'll get back later with some links.


** When I was talking to the sales rep (ya, lol but maybe it's true..) at GEL Tek lighting, their 315w cmh test was giving them 1500 umols... Said it was giving a 1000w hps the bricks. Ya, like I said a sales guy told me that... But maybe in the right reflector, and I think they were using a specially made reflector... And their digital ballast is made for that bulb and gets something like 115lm/w they claim.

On a personal note, a 250w retro white is making my auto AK47's grow seriously nice... I'm blown away, tbh. They were stunted pretty good for half of their "veg" period and then transplanted from dwc to soil, yet the buds and resin are building up VERY nice. Plants been staying very healthy, too. Either it's a very vigorous strain or they really enjoy the cmh or both?

 

[messn'n'gommin']

I ordered two more. Should be here Wednesday.

Also I got two Ushio MH at Christmas (HPS ballast to MH conversion bulbs) in 5200k and 7000k.
(it's too early to see their affect)

I suppose it will be awhile before they're completely gone and there is the CDM series to fill the bill later on. (lol...I really need to visit this thread more often and look further into those!). My major malfunction is trying to decide whether to go vert or stay horizontal. But, at $36 a pop I only have to have $150 for bulbs to last for the next 6 to 10 years.

Which brings me to the question, is ATL still having trouble getting their product to their customers or have they cleaned up their act, yet?

 

[Pinball Wizard]

I suppose it will be awhile before they're completely gone and there is the CDM series to fill the bill later on. (lol...I really need to visit this thread more often and look further into those!). My major malfunction is trying to decide whether to go vert or stay horizontal. But, at $36 a pop I only have to have $150 for bulbs to last for the next 6 to 10 years.

Which brings me to the question, is ATL still having trouble getting their product to their customers or have they cleaned up their act, yet?

I get my bulbs from the Lighting Supply Company. They are fast, but cost a little more.

I got one bad bulb from ATL out of two. They are slow.

 

[tenthirty]

I tried looking, couldn't find anything... From what I read at AdvancedTech lighting (don't quote me on credibility of that source) they (330w Allstart) has a very similar spectrum to the retro white but with more red.

I stumbled across another thread on an MJ forum where a guy tested his bulbs, 2x 400w retro whites and 24" under hood with 2x 400w retros he measured 1600+ umols. Outside on summer day he got 1900 umols.

I'll get back later with some links.


** When I was talking to the sales rep (ya, lol but maybe it's true..) at GEL Tek lighting, their 315w cmh test was giving them 1500 umols... Said it was giving a 1000w hps the bricks. Ya, like I said a sales guy told me that... But maybe in the right reflector, and I think they were using a specially made reflector... And their digital ballast is made for that bulb and gets something like 115lm/w they claim.

On a personal note, a 250w retro white is making my auto AK47's grow seriously nice... I'm blown away, tbh. They were stunted pretty good for half of their "veg" period and then transplanted from dwc to soil, yet the buds and resin are building up VERY nice. Plants been staying very healthy, too. Either it's a very vigorous strain or they really enjoy the cmh or both?

Yup, Yup, and yup!

Cycloptics has finally gone live.
Enjoy.......Good, but not cheap.
http://greenbeamslighting.com/

 

[tenthirty]

The 315w equipment is higher than hell if you pay retail. I took my time and found the gear on eBay, and got some smoking deals. If I was going to grow commercially, the odds are that I would be using either Gavita 600w or 1000w HPS. I grow for myself, and my needs are amply met with far less wattage. I also like to spend time just admiring my plants, which is completely impossible under HPS. I worked under that shit for several decades in factories, and it has no place in my garden!

As far as bud development, this is my first run with the 315 and the growing dynamics are substantially different than with the LEDs that I've been using for the last several years. Because of this, I'm sure that there was quite a bit left on the table. This grow was done with 930 lamps, not the Agro, and it looks like there is a good bit of potential improvement with the lamp that is actually designed for the purpose. There were far too many changes this time to make any valid comparisons, but the next run will be far more comparable to what I've done in the past.

From an energy and efficiency standpoint, the 315 is the next generation of HID development. Their light output/watt is right up there with the best of current LEDs, there is one ballast manufacturer that is claiming a lamp life comparable to LEDs, the falloff in light output over time is a tiny fraction of what HPS loses, they can be dimmed to 50% with no loss of lamp life or color rendering, etc, etc. So far, I'm impressed.

On my first run the 315 Agro was a slightly better yield than a 600 hps.
The second run will be coming down in a few days and it's just as good!
So good in fact that I will be adding another Agro system and replace my existing leds.