You think it's because of the lamp? Is it the only change in your setup?
Really looking healty plants.
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You think it's because of the lamp? Is it the only change in your setup?
Really looking healty plants.
The lamp is the only substantial change. I've grown this same strain a number of times under a couple of different LED fixtures. The nutrients are the same that I've been running for quite a while now (V+B), and at the same strengths. The plants themselves were handled quite a bit differently, but I don't think that it was a positive change!
These were two clones that were "extra" from a run last summer, and I kept them in beer cups for months. I travel frequently, so I repeatedly topped them down to fit in a cardboard box that was about 2' tall with a 23w cfl in the top of it, and they traveled with me. When I finally got around to transplanting them, they were a root-bound mess and looking anything but healthy. I didn't have much hope for them, but they had been around for so long that I decided to see how they would work out. I vegged them for several weeks under my VolksLED, and it seems to be remarkably effective. They had recovered quite well by the time they went under the CDM lamps 3 weeks ago.
I normally grow in a SCROG format, but have grown these at least twice as bushes, and have never seen this level of development this early. In fact, the start of bud set seemed a bit slower than what I've seen with LEDs, but they sure took off once they started flowering.
These were two clones that were "extra" from a run last summer, and I kept them in beer cups for months. I travel frequently, so I repeatedly topped them down to fit in a cardboard box that was about 2' tall with a 23w cfl in the top of it, and they traveled with me. When I finally got around to transplanting them, they were a root-bound mess and looking anything but healthy. I didn't have much hope for them, but they had been around for so long that I decided to see how they would work out. I vegged them for several weeks under my VolksLED, and it seems to be remarkably effective. They had recovered quite well by the time they went under the CDM lamps 3 weeks ago.
I normally grow in a SCROG format, but have grown these at least twice as bushes, and have never seen this level of development this early. In fact, the start of bud set seemed a bit slower than what I've seen with LEDs, but they sure took off once they started flowering.
For a plant to be truly rootbound it must've had more root development at the stage it was in than an average plant that you kept in a dixie cup for a much shorter time.
Do you think that the extra root mass could account for the growth you're seeing?
A real test would be to try the same experiment again but this time do things the way you normally do and not carry the clones around for months in a cardboard box first.
I love your work. Please do not interpret any of this as sniping at you. You have my utmost respect.
I don't know if the extra root mass at that point could have contributed or not - I've never let clones go that long without transplanting before, but every other time that I've waited too long to transplant, it certainly hasn't had a positive effect. Under those circumstances, the plants rarely seem to fully recover to their full potential. That is why I was tempted to chuck these instead of flowering them out, but I was curious to see how they would turn out after topping them so many times.
I plan on continuing with these lamps and seeing what happens. I've been working on a new area for a long time now, but some health issues have postponed it's completion. I originally intended to use the lamps in there, but got impatient with the wait after seeing both tenthirty and Azeotrope getting rolling with theirs, so I decided to try them out in this tent. It's been many years since I last ran HIDs, and have been very happy with the quality of the results from LEDs, but so far I'm astounded with how these are working. We'll have to see how this run finishes out, and whether or not it's a fluke.
No offense taken at your remarks, I've always found your contributions to be both interesting and pertinent.
Thought I would share some info regarding the PGZ18 socket that is required for the CDM (210w & 315w) bulbs. I was set-back a little by an unexpected issue with my brand new unprotected or 'enclosed fixture' rated 315w 930 not fitting in to a new Mitronix PGZ18 socket that I had ordered. So, I called Mitronix and they informed me that Philips had changed the design of the ceramic base on the bulb sometime in the last year and had not informed socket manufacturers.
So, it breaks down like this..... If your bulb was made over a year ago, either protected or unprotected, it will fit the old sockets. If it is a newer protected bulb it will fit the old socket.
If you have a new unprotected bulb, it will only fit the new socket design. All new bulbs fit the new socket design.
This is important if you have an older fixture or older socket and buy a new bulb. I have a 930 unprotected and a 942 protected and both sockets now....... Both my bulbs were made in 12/2012.
Here are the two socket designs. The taller socket with the red and blue leads is the new version(on left). The shorter socket with white leads is the older design(on right). Mitronix has been reaching out to their resellers and trying to replace their stock.
So, it breaks down like this..... If your bulb was made over a year ago, either protected or unprotected, it will fit the old sockets. If it is a newer protected bulb it will fit the old socket.
If you have a new unprotected bulb, it will only fit the new socket design. All new bulbs fit the new socket design.
This is important if you have an older fixture or older socket and buy a new bulb. I have a 930 unprotected and a 942 protected and both sockets now....... Both my bulbs were made in 12/2012.
Here are the two socket designs. The taller socket with the red and blue leads is the new version(on left). The shorter socket with white leads is the older design(on right). Mitronix has been reaching out to their resellers and trying to replace their stock.
New to this thread and I must say it's really interesting work all of you are doing with these lights.
I'm thinking maybe 4 plants under the 315w would be nice.
How is the light penetration? I've been using 1k lamps for a long time now, but still feel much of the lower growth gets wasted. If the 315w can get 24 inches deep of solid cola I'm sold!
Also, can the 315w cover 3x3 ft? Different reflectors and orientation (vertical/horizontal) are understood to be part of the equation, but is there a way to cover a 3x3 table with one of these?
I'm thinking maybe 4 plants under the 315w would be nice.
How is the light penetration? I've been using 1k lamps for a long time now, but still feel much of the lower growth gets wasted. If the 315w can get 24 inches deep of solid cola I'm sold!
Also, can the 315w cover 3x3 ft? Different reflectors and orientation (vertical/horizontal) are understood to be part of the equation, but is there a way to cover a 3x3 table with one of these?
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Sheesh, first I guess I have to admit that I have never seen a 24" solid cola in nearly 4-1/2 decades of smoking pot, much less grown one. I think that the jury is still out on the performance of the lamp - as far as I know, there are three of us working with variants of it, and none have cropped out yet. Tenthirty is the closest, and he'll have to tell you what he has seen. He is also the one with the experience on a 3x3 table, so maybe he'll pop in.
I've been debating about how to go with my scrog tent. I use a 30"x30" screen, and while I think that another one of these small Bell hoods with a single 315w would do a good job, I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of taking one of the larger Bell hoods (24" x 32") and wedging two lamps into it over the screen. More Horsepower ! Seriously, the lamps could be run at reduced wattage since the ballasts have the option of dimming to 50% and also have the option of switching over to 210w lamps.
I've been debating about how to go with my scrog tent. I use a 30"x30" screen, and while I think that another one of these small Bell hoods with a single 315w would do a good job, I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of taking one of the larger Bell hoods (24" x 32") and wedging two lamps into it over the screen. More Horsepower ! Seriously, the lamps could be run at reduced wattage since the ballasts have the option of dimming to 50% and also have the option of switching over to 210w lamps.
Rives,
Been reading the earlier pages for more info. Looks like it is possible to do 1 of these 315w lamps over a 3x3..
The next thought is to try to replace a 1000w HPS with 2 of the 315w lamps in a 4x4 tent. Where I live heat is a constant battle so the savings in pure watts and in using less air conditioning power might be well worth the experiment. Could I pull 24 ozs. from 630w of CMH?? That would be so sweet and is real tempting to try.
Have a plant from Chimera's Ultimix that has beautiful stretch so when topped it's easy to get 3-4 24 inch colas along with a few smaller lower branches. The plant is either Mental Floss or Schnazzleberry, but can't be sure which exactly from the research I've done on the Ultimix seed packs. She's a real bell ringer! Stony for sure!! 16 of them in a 4x4 with 2 315w lamps could be just the ticket
Been reading the earlier pages for more info. Looks like it is possible to do 1 of these 315w lamps over a 3x3..
The next thought is to try to replace a 1000w HPS with 2 of the 315w lamps in a 4x4 tent. Where I live heat is a constant battle so the savings in pure watts and in using less air conditioning power might be well worth the experiment. Could I pull 24 ozs. from 630w of CMH?? That would be so sweet and is real tempting to try.
Have a plant from Chimera's Ultimix that has beautiful stretch so when topped it's easy to get 3-4 24 inch colas along with a few smaller lower branches. The plant is either Mental Floss or Schnazzleberry, but can't be sure which exactly from the research I've done on the Ultimix seed packs. She's a real bell ringer! Stony for sure!! 16 of them in a 4x4 with 2 315w lamps could be just the ticket
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tenthirty
Member
Tomorrow is the chop, so I'll post some wet weights.
They look amazing, not the size, but the color of the buds and the health of the plants.
The flowers look almost red/gold. I have seen this pheno purple, but never this color.
I hope the camera will catch it.
The CMH table is sport'in 35w. sq.ft.
The plants that are at 26 days under 27w. sq. ft. of HML led are also looking interesting.
I'll post some pics in the HML thread on these. (stacking quite nicely)
They will be going under the CMH for the last 30 days tomorrow or the next day.
They look amazing, not the size, but the color of the buds and the health of the plants.
The flowers look almost red/gold. I have seen this pheno purple, but never this color.
I hope the camera will catch it.
The CMH table is sport'in 35w. sq.ft.
The plants that are at 26 days under 27w. sq. ft. of HML led are also looking interesting.
I'll post some pics in the HML thread on these. (stacking quite nicely)
They will be going under the CMH for the last 30 days tomorrow or the next day.
tenthirty
Member
Rives,
Been reading the earlier pages for more info. Looks like it is possible to do 1 of these 315w lamps over a 3x3..
The next thought is to try to replace a 1000w HPS with 2 of the 315w lamps in a 4x4 tent. Where I live heat is a constant battle so the savings in pure watts and in using less air conditioning power might be well worth the experiment. Could I pull 24 ozs. from 630w of CMH?? That would be so sweet and is real tempting to try.
Have a plant from Chimera's Ultimix that has beautiful stretch so when topped it's easy to get 3-4 24 inch colas along with a few smaller lower branches. The plant is either Mental Floss or Schnazzleberry, but can't be sure which exactly from the research I've done on the Ultimix seed packs. She's a real bell ringer! Stony for sure!! 16 of them in a 4x4 with 2 315w lamps could be just the ticket
2 315's would work well over a 3x6 area.(guess what I'm planning to do.)
I'm look'in at 32 oz's from 2 315's as a goal!
Even though this is the first run with the 315, this grow is pretty well dialed IMHO.
Already have 4 ballasts.
Though, the plants that are on deck have 6 Bubba Kush clones as tests for a buddy and they were kind of sickly.
Might have a slight drop in total weight in 2 months, but the Bubba tastes and smells soooooo good!!
GreenThumb14
Member
Hi guys, new here but I've been reading through this CMH thread as I'm very interested in using one of these bulbs and I've been doing a lot of research over the past few months.
I'll be doing a cabinet grow with 6sq/ft of DWC SCRoG and Delicious Seeds Critical Sensi Star.
I'm very turned off by using magnetic coil ballasts because of the heat and noise, so I did a lot of research on compatible digital ballasts and only came across two companies which had feasible prices... One is Accendo and the other is Global Energy and Lighting.
I originally bought a 140w kit from GEL which utilizes the Philips Cosmopolitan CDM lineup, but before I used it I decided to send it back and get the 315W kit which uses the Elite Medium Wattage bulb from Philips.
Long story short I cancelled that order, too. I couldn't really justify spending $400 on a 315W setup. It includes the lamp, socket, and ballast... But still hella expensive.
So I had previously written Accendo off because they didn't have any ballasts that worked with the Cosmo or Elite bulbs. I needed a low profile bulb for my setup so I could use a smaller diameter glass cool tube. I did some more searching and decided to check out the regular HPS Retro White bulbs from Philips and realized that they were offered up to 400W and only around 2.5" bulb diameter.
Now on to my experience Accendo....
It took me nearly two weeks to get anyone at Accendo to talk to me. Very slow to answer emails and forget about having a phone conversation. Maybe it's because I'm only trying to buy 1 and not a 100? Anyway, there information is a little misleading. Several places on their website state that their ballasts run MH, HPS and CMH... However, when you talk to them you find out that isn't the case. I tried to order a 400W ballast from them and was told (luckily before the order was placed) that it would not operate a CMH bulb. They directed me to their line of Low Frequency High-Life ballasts which only run up to 250W, yet once again their info states up to 400W units available but only list up to 250W. They're telling me that the 400W units will be available in the "near future", whatever the f*ck that means.
They say that their 250W fully digital ballast is a replacement for 400W magnetic... I'm guessing that you get a lot higher lumens per watt? The bulb is rated at 82lm/w... Not sure how Philips rates the bulbs and if it's possible to achieve a higher efficiency?
Anyway, I ordered the 250W ballast today. It cost $212 + shipping. The bulb is around $50 + shipping.
I haven't seen anyone else using Accendo products, let alone a 250W Philips Retro White so I'm not sure what to expect but I plan on logging my grow for all to see.
Any thoughts or comments about Accendo or expectations from the 250W CMH bulb would be appreciated!
I'll be doing a cabinet grow with 6sq/ft of DWC SCRoG and Delicious Seeds Critical Sensi Star.
I'm very turned off by using magnetic coil ballasts because of the heat and noise, so I did a lot of research on compatible digital ballasts and only came across two companies which had feasible prices... One is Accendo and the other is Global Energy and Lighting.
I originally bought a 140w kit from GEL which utilizes the Philips Cosmopolitan CDM lineup, but before I used it I decided to send it back and get the 315W kit which uses the Elite Medium Wattage bulb from Philips.
Long story short I cancelled that order, too. I couldn't really justify spending $400 on a 315W setup. It includes the lamp, socket, and ballast... But still hella expensive.
So I had previously written Accendo off because they didn't have any ballasts that worked with the Cosmo or Elite bulbs. I needed a low profile bulb for my setup so I could use a smaller diameter glass cool tube. I did some more searching and decided to check out the regular HPS Retro White bulbs from Philips and realized that they were offered up to 400W and only around 2.5" bulb diameter.
Now on to my experience Accendo....
It took me nearly two weeks to get anyone at Accendo to talk to me. Very slow to answer emails and forget about having a phone conversation. Maybe it's because I'm only trying to buy 1 and not a 100? Anyway, there information is a little misleading. Several places on their website state that their ballasts run MH, HPS and CMH... However, when you talk to them you find out that isn't the case. I tried to order a 400W ballast from them and was told (luckily before the order was placed) that it would not operate a CMH bulb. They directed me to their line of Low Frequency High-Life ballasts which only run up to 250W, yet once again their info states up to 400W units available but only list up to 250W. They're telling me that the 400W units will be available in the "near future", whatever the f*ck that means.
They say that their 250W fully digital ballast is a replacement for 400W magnetic... I'm guessing that you get a lot higher lumens per watt? The bulb is rated at 82lm/w... Not sure how Philips rates the bulbs and if it's possible to achieve a higher efficiency?
Anyway, I ordered the 250W ballast today. It cost $212 + shipping. The bulb is around $50 + shipping.
I haven't seen anyone else using Accendo products, let alone a 250W Philips Retro White so I'm not sure what to expect but I plan on logging my grow for all to see.
Any thoughts or comments about Accendo or expectations from the 250W CMH bulb would be appreciated!
So you saved a $100 or so and bought a setup with no track record vs the GEL setup, which gives a lamp life approaching LEDs and 15% more lumens than the Philips ballast? Does the GEL come with an Agro lamp?
If it were me, I'd cancel this order and reinstate the GEL one. I've been toying with the idea of getting one of their systems to play with and I already have seven of the Philips ballasts, 10 sockets, and a case of lamps.
Good luck, please keep us posted.
If it were me, I'd cancel this order and reinstate the GEL one. I've been toying with the idea of getting one of their systems to play with and I already have seven of the Philips ballasts, 10 sockets, and a case of lamps.
Good luck, please keep us posted.
Can you post some pictures of what plants look like now before chop ???? 32 0z from 630 watts @ 35 watts per Sq foot i got to see this
Doc, 630w is not the setup that he is currently finishing up, it's what he is planning on going to.
Awe must of mis-read my bad i just purchased ordered ten 300 watt Gavita LEP pro plasma five type 1 and five type 2 Veg / flower @ 1000.00 since i purchased 10 i got them @ 940 a pop that will be run beside ten Gavita 1000's
I am really excited to see what comes of this i also will start a journal soon as they all come in
i just purchased ordered ten 300 watt Gavita LEP pro plasma five type 1 and five type 2 Veg / flower @ 1000.00 since i purchased 10 i got them @ 940 a pop that will be run beside ten Gavita 1000's I am really excited to see what comes of this i also will start a journal soon as they all come in
GreenThumb14
Member
No, I can't find the edit button for my post. The GEL system is 210W or 315W kit for $500 + shipping. The 375W kit is $550 + shipping.
After shipping & customs (Accendo is in Canada) I paid $285 for the ballast alone. Plus bulb and I'm at $340 total. So I saved $160 + shipping over the GEL... Basically $200. Almost enough to do 2 of the 250W kits.
I'm suspecting (rather hoping) that what GEL is offering is basically the same as Accendo. Both setups are true digital microprocessor controlled. Accendo claims on their website
If that is actually true then I should be a hair under 30K lumens from the 250w CMH.
How true this is, I do not know.
To be honest it was about time i upgraded to new equipment, figured i better get into the times where i always grew old school, and magnetic ballasts so got rid of them all to help pay for new
tenthirty
Member
I have to go chop, but......
First 30 day table is under:
Pro Grow 260 = 218w
HML leds 2x80= 160
That would be 42 watts sq ft on the first table, but the plants under the HML's are at 27 watts a square foot and do better than the Pro Grow.
Last 30 day table is under the 315 Agro at 35 watts a square foot.
The last harvest was right at 2000 grams wet. came out to about 440 grams dry plus what I took out to test.
I'll take pics before chop today.......
